[Politics] Labour Anti Semitism - Against the faith or the Israeli State?

[PILTDOWN MAN]

.....someone just thumbsed this up so I'll update.

I rejoined the party when Starmer won. As I just posted in a PM to one of my NSC pals:

Meanwhile, today we have the party back in the spotlight with an excoriating criticism of the 'antisemitism' debacle. Corbyn's statement was eloquent today yet he still ended it by blaming the media. He Just Doesn't Get It. I hope that Starmer blames Corbyn for his weak leadership, and vows (again) to make amends. The idea of my labour party engaging in Israel-bashing and 'Jew-baiting' infuriates me. My middle brother falls into that wormhole every time the Palestinians come up. Yes we know Netanyahu is playing to his right wing gallery, but we don't boycott our own country just because we have (like now) a potentially dangerous faux right wing lunatic in charge (Boris isn't right wing, and I don't think Bibi is either, under the posteuring). Making an exception of Israel is pure antisemitism.

The failure and indeed the meddling by the leadership in dealing with the issue has left the integrity of the party in tatters over this. Now there is the chance to act and be seen to eradicate those that have influenced the past thinking at the top of the party.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

The failure and indeed the meddling by the leadership in dealing with the issue has left the integrity of the party in tatters over this. Now there is the chance to act and be seen to eradicate those that have influenced the past thinking at the top of the party.

Here's hoping

 

[Wardy's twin]

Some punctuation would have made it easier to read, but I get where you're coming from.

I see your point, it's not really important right now so just forget it.

thanks. I do let ideas take control and forget my commas and full stops.

 

[Wardy's twin]

Maybe doing something about Corbyn would deflect from the bigger issue at the moment.

Mrs DiS has told me that Starmer spoke powerfully about it this morning, including there is no room in the Labour party for anyone who refutes or denies any of the findings........ or something like that. It seems to me that he is duty bound to expel Corbyn if he does deny it..... and I would be disappointed if he didn't.

Corbyn has already said that anti-semitism was grossly exaggerated by Labour's opponents, which is possibly/probably true, and is not denying it happened, and is possibly acknowledging that it did happen.

We shall see.

Now is not the time, need to focus on the COVID crisis. Corbyn still has a lot of support so the fight can/should only happen when COVID is less of an issue and Starmer and Labour are stronger. Of course on the latter point its a bit of a catch-22 as getting rid off Corbyn will probably strengthen.

 

[Hugo Rune]

Starmer still doesn't want to say he's necessarily getting rid of Jezza, why's that?

View attachment 129887

What happened to the ice cool interrogator?

Your answer is here:

The failure and indeed the meddling by the leadership in dealing with the issue has left the integrity of the party in tatters over this.

Starmer is absolutely right not to meddle in the process at this point as he’d be no worse than Corbyn was in his handling of the scandal originally when he did not have all the facts in place.

Any action against Corbyn should follow the disciplinary procedures of the party to the letter, suggesting that the leader of the opposition might like to mention that he may ‘get rid of Corbyn’ would be damaging to any forth coming process against him, suggesting otherwise is politicised points scoring and inane buffoonery.

 

[daveinplzen]

To focus solely and single out the tiny country of Israel whilst ignoring other far worse things happening in other countries like China & Russia and even the Kurd situation in Turkey does make it anti Semitic because you are holding Israel to higher standards of behaviour than any other country .

So please don’t make that excuse because it’s not a credible one unless you are using it as cover for your true feelings .

I think most people are critical of Russia (Ukraine etc), China (Uigars) and the treatment of the Kurds (for decades). Anybody defend them?

 

[nickbrighton]

Labour have now suspended Corbyn, which indicates that there is to be a disciplinary process against him.This has to been seen as good news for anyone hoping for a Labour Government anytime in the next 10 years. Corbyn was, as many people kept pointing out to his supporters, the main reason why Labour would never be electable with him in charge. IF Labour have the balls to take this opportunity to expel him and anyone else found to have been culpable they will have rid the party of most of the reason why a large percentage of Labour voters deserted the party last election. They will position to start rebuilding some kind of credible opposition, which for goodness sake, shouldn't be difficult with the current Government we have.
If however they fudge this, then even with the buffoons currently in charge of the Tory's there is no chance of them winning.

 

[Mellor 3 Ward 4]

Labour has suspended Jeremy Corbyn after an inquiry found the party responsible for "unlawful" harassment and discrimination when he was leader.

 

[portslade seagull]

Labour have now suspended Corbyn, which indicates that there is to be a disciplinary process against him.This has to been seen as good news for anyone hoping for a Labour Government anytime in the next 10 years. Corbyn was, as many people kept pointing out to his supporters, the main reason why Labour would never be electable with him in charge. IF Labour have the balls to take this opportunity to expel him and anyone else found to have been culpable they will have rid the party of most of the reason why a large percentage of Labour voters deserted the party last election. They will position to start rebuilding some kind of credible opposition, which for goodness sake, shouldn't be difficult with the current Government we have.
If however they fudge this, then even with the buffoons currently in charge of the Tory's there is no chance of them winning.

Don't hold your breath. The unions will wade into this, could be civil war within Labour

 

[nickbrighton]

Don't hold your breath. The unions will wade into this, could be civil war within Labour

Labour seem to be in a constant state of civil war, be it Momentum, Militant Tendency, or various factions within the party during the Blair/Brown years. They should be streets ahead of the Tories, following the whole Brexit/Covid cluster ****, yest once again they seem intent of destroying themselves rather than do what they are supposed to do, which is provide a credible alternative to the party in power. Labour have wasted opportunity time and again to appeal to the ever growing disaffected centre right wing vote,and even to their own centre left that they so spectacularly lost at the last election. Corbyn going gave them the opportunity to reposition the party into the gaping void of moderate, centre left socialist policies that I believe the country is crying out for. Unfortunately I fear that you are correct, that this will ensure another round of in fighting which will result in Borris and his cohorts being able to reign unchecked,

 

[Live by the sea]

I think most people are critical of Russia (Ukraine etc), China (Uigars) and the treatment of the Kurds (for decades). Anybody defend them?

The calling out of Israel is about 100 x more than any of these other examples . Obviously some of this is amplified by Islamists who want to see Israel destroyed but a smaller percentage is people that are either brainwashed into thinking the only country to ever criticise is Israel for some strange reason or they are simply happy to use Israel as a convenient excuse to hide their anti semetism .

Take the Guardian for example about 9 out of every 10 articles about Israel are negative but that is a choice the paper makes . There are plenty of positive stories that the guardian could run, for example how Israel is usually one of the first countries to offer their help to victims of natural disasters in the Middle East region because they are very adept at dealing with emergencies and lots of Israeli companies have developed new innovative high tech life saving equipment.

The same goes for lots of the new medicines and drugs developed in high tech labs in Israel , they are one of the worlds top ten in developing new medicines .

The list goes on and on , mobile phone technology , computer technology, agriculture technology etc etc but if you read only the guardian all you would think about Israel is their ongoing tit for tat conflict with the Palestinian militant groups and peoples .

It’s all about balance and what you choose to highlight .

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

Now is not the time, need to focus on the COVID crisis. Corbyn still has a lot of support so the fight can/should only happen when COVID is less of an issue and Starmer and Labour are stronger. Of course on the latter point its a bit of a catch-22 as getting rid off Corbyn will probably strengthen.

I agree that now, ideally, would not be the time, but Corbyn has left them no choice really. If the Party authorities (it's not Starmer acting unilaterally, although he is presumably part of the decision.

If Cornyn reacts and they/he do nothing, they get branded as weak.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

Labour seem to be in a constant state of civil war, be it Momentum, Militant Tendency, or various factions within the party during the Blair/Brown years. They should be streets ahead of the Tories, following the whole Brexit/Covid cluster ****, yest once again they seem intent of destroying themselves rather than do what they are supposed to do, which is provide a credible alternative to the party in power. Labour have wasted opportunity time and again to appeal to the ever growing disaffected centre right wing vote,and even to their own centre left that they so spectacularly lost at the last election. Corbyn going gave them the opportunity to reposition the party into the gaping void of moderate, centre left socialist policies that I believe the country is crying out for. Unfortunately I fear that you are correct, that this will ensure another round of in fighting which will result in Borris and his cohorts being able to reign unchecked,

But what choice have they got?
The anti-Semitism thing had to be dealt with.
They commission a report from an official body, the EHRC, which a Labour Government set up in the first place.
That report is devastating in its findings.
Corbyn reacts to it in a way that indicates he is part of the problem.

I would accept that Cornyn himself is not racist or anti-semitic, but he is showing he isn't taking/didn't take it seriously now or as leader. He either shuts up or goes would seem to be the only options.

 

[wellquickwoody]

No, Israel doesn't steal "palestinian" land as there's no such thing. There is no Jewish "occupation" of "palestinian" land. You're spreading untruths. Typical pro "palestinian" lies.

Hamas atrocities? Where do I begin?
How about 15,000 rockets being fired indiscriminately at Israeli civilians, each rocket deemed a war crime?
How about Hamas firing rockets from schools and hospitals?
How about Hamas torturing and killing Arab "palestinians"?
How about Hamas violently suppressing the economic protests in Gaza?
And it's well known that Hamas uses systematic torture to crush any dissent.

No Palestinian land? Are you for real? About as plausible as ‘there was no Holocaust’!

 

[Tokyohands]

The constant sniping about Israel whilst totally ignoring various other countries doing far worse is in itself anti Semitic .

No it isn't. Reporters can be asking (baiting) what someone specifically thinks about a certain issue and just publish the response as if that person is just constantly sniping about it. It goes full circle back to the Noam Chomsky quote someone posted.

 

[Wardy's twin]

I agree that now, ideally, would not be the time, but Corbyn has left them no choice really. If the Party authorities (it's not Starmer acting unilaterally, although he is presumably part of the decision.

If Cornyn reacts and they/he do nothing, they get branded as weak.

If the Labour left don't get behind Starmer then we are in for a continuous Tory government. They need to realise that a left leaning centralist party is more acceptable to the majority and might get re-elected. Need to start with getting McCluskey out as he is the main problem and the equivalent of Cummings for the left (though I accept he had some legitimacy from his union).

 

[Thunder Bolt]

If the Labour left don't get behind Starmer then we are in for a continuous Tory government. They need to realise that a left leaning centralist party is more acceptable to the majority and might get re-elected. Need to start with getting McCluskey out as he is the main problem and the equivalent of Cummings for the left (though I accept he had some legitimacy from his union).

Not forgetting Seamus Milne, the equivalent of Dominic Cummings, ironically with the same aims.

 

[Is it PotG?]

 

[Guinness Boy]

View attachment 150056

Good news all round. Corbyn's gone (like, several years ago) and improvements are well on the way.

Any news on any Labour bigwigs getting fined by the Met or endorsed by Britain First?

Remind me to periodically bounce this to reinforce the positive steps made by the new leadership.

 

[clapham_gull]

Anti-Semitism exists on both the far right and the far left and has done so historically.

Both are fuelled by conspiracy theory and Labour (under Corbyn) were far too late to recognise it's modern influence on some of it's members irrespective of how morally correct their support of the Palestinians is.

Corbyn fuelled it with certain facebook likes and forwards written to books. Unwittingly ? Probably. In the big scheme of things not a huge problem within the party ? Probably.

But as a leader of a major Political party he should have known better. But Corbyn was never a leader, just a brilliant campaigner.

Maybe he should sit down and have an Organic Lager with Johnson....

They both hate the EU and probably will find other common ground.

There isn't much more to say.