James Mclean - Sunderland refused to wear shirt with poppy on

[TranmereGull]

Not wearing the Poppy to honour the fallen of the British Army and colonial soldiers fighting for Britain is completely up to him. It says he was bought up on the streets where British Paras shot and killed the Bloody Sunday marchers. Im not surprised that he doesnt want any part in rememberance of that event.

The only problem is that thousands of free Irishmen joined the British Army during both wars and many fell...If he doesnt feel like he wants to honour them because they fell for Britain...fair play to the lad.

 

[JCL666]

Yep, thats seems reasonable, I kinda understood thats what it meant when you posted it.

Not sure why JCL66 found this so unpalatable/confusing.

Because it's nonsense. For example, we didn't get involved in the second world war because of a British cause.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

I think people like McClean have every right to express their right not to wear the poppy if they feel that their memories of the British Army correlate with injustice. We cannot pretend that every war we thought has been just and so consequently there will be people whose memories of the British Army are less savoury. To me, that is what part of being a tolerant and civilised nation means. I, for one, have worn my poppy with pride in memory of the brave people who protected our freedom, but at the same time I respect those who don't want to celebrate the memory of men who for them mean pain and not pride.

Excellent post.

 

[Albumen]

It really is none of our business as to why he decided against the wearing of a poppy.

Two things though sort of stood out this weekend:

James Mclean not wearing one.
The Argentinian Rugby team wearing them and placing a wreath of poppies on the pitch before the game in Cardiff.

Did they though? I had no idea he didn't wear one until I came on here this morning. It depends what tabloid/news media you read I guess. What one man does (which wasn't disrespectful, he silently disagreed with the charity which is his choice) is of no interest to me.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

just a reminder, on the 12th October 1984 the IRA murdeded 5 people in our own city

Yes we know. What is the relevance of that to this particular debate?

Has somebody suggested that you should wear an Irish tricolor on your chest to remember fallen IRA members?

 

[User removed 4]

Did they though? I had no idea he didn't wear one until I came on here this morning. It depends what tabloid/news media you read I guess. What one man does (which wasn't disrespectful, he silently disagreed with the charity which is his choice) is of no interest to me.

I'll ask you the question which others on here have failed to answer , if a white player refused to wear a kick it out t shirt, for private reasons , woujld your stance be the same ?

 

[Kumquat]

Yup. To me though what is even more depressing is the complete failure of us, humanity, to learn any lessons from conflict whatsoever. There is a general (although not universal) consensus that the 1st World War was a pointless, monumental waste of life that did nothing except sow the seeds for another, bigger war. But that wasn't the view at the time, in 1914 the British really did believe that they were embarking on a just war to 'save civilisation' and to prevent the barbarous, warmongering Huns from building an empire and achieving their 'place in the sun'. Now today we've got Afghanistan and we had Iraq; two utterly pointless wars that have done nothing except cause destruction, waste lives and breed the next generation of terrorists who have seen their fathers and elder brothers killed and want to avenge them. In thirty years' time everybody will look back and tut and say how stupid, pointless and counter-productive it all was - as they prepare for the next 'necessary' war.

Agree with that almost entirely but my understanding was that the seeds for the second world war were primarily sown by the way the US, Britain and the others responded after the war and the great depression. Basically they did not foresee that the punitive reparation treaties forced on Germany would leave them utterly humiliated and the great depression would add to it. Along came a leader who promised to restore their pride and their economy. and the rest is history.

 

[Brovion]

Agree with that almost entirely but my understanding was that the seeds for the second world war were primarily sown by the way the US, Britain and the others responded after the war and the great depression. Basically they did not foresee that the punitive reparation treaties forced on Germany would leave them utterly humiliated and the great depression would add to it. Along came a leader who promised to restore their pride and their economy. and the rest is history.

Well yes, that's really what I said. There wouldn't have been an 'after the war' response if there hadn't been the war in the first place. Cause and Effect.

 

[The Spanish]

Agree with that almost entirely but my understanding was that the seeds for the second world war were primarily sown by the way the US, Britain and the others responded after the war and the great depression. Basically they did not foresee that the punitive reparation treaties forced on Germany would leave them utterly humiliated and the great depression would add to it. Along came a leader who promised to restore their pride and their economy. and the rest is history.

the seeds for the second word war were sown long before the first. in years to come the peaks we see in our history as its living memory, will appear much more flat, if that makes sense.

 

[Albumen]

I'll ask you the question which others on here have failed to answer , if a white player refused to wear a kick it out t shirt, for private reasons , woujld your stance be the same ?

They've probably 'failed to answer' it because you can't compare the two issues. The poppy appeal is a charity whereas Kick it out is a racism campaign. Totally different ballpark.

 

[DJ Leon]

I'll ask you the question which others on here have failed to answer , if a white player refused to wear a kick it out t shirt, for private reasons , woujld your stance be the same ?

Mine would. The media / tabloids would savage said white player of course, but my stance is the same.

This tabloid reaction to wear a poppy / t-shirt is nonsense. It's a matter of personal conscience - do as you please.

Here's someone who won't buy a poppy for different reasons - http://alt.adrianshort.co.uk/blog/2011/11/10/remembering-remembrance/. Everyone is different.

 

[The Spanish]

They've probably 'failed to answer' it because you can't compare the two issues. The poppy appeal is a charity whereas Kick it out is a racism campaign. Totally different ballpark.

anti racism campaign. although perhaps there is a pole shift happening.

 

[User removed 4]

They've probably 'failed to answer' it because you can't compare the two issues. The poppy appeal is a charity whereas Kick it out is a racism campaign. Totally different ballpark.

No it's not at all, one is a cause you'll trip yourself over in your rush to support , the other is one you're indifferent to, I happen to believe that racism in football has been al but eradicated, and that the kick it out campaign is nothing more than an excercise in jobs for second rate footballers, were I a foootballer would you respect my decision not to wear a t-shirt that I saw as irrelevant and pointless ?

 

[Simster]

No it's not at all, one is a cause you'll trip yourself over in your rush to support , the other is one you're indifferent to, I happen to believe that racism in football has been al but eradicated, and that the kick it out campaign is nothing more than an excercise in jobs for second rate footballers, were I a foootballer would you respect my decision not to wear a t-shirt that I saw as irrelevant and pointless ?

I absolutely would. Hope this helps.

But by banging on about this, you're derailing an interesting thread on the merits of poppy wearing, IMO, bushy. I reckon it belongs on another thread.

 

[Kumquat]

Well yes, that's really what I said. There wouldn't have been an 'after the war' response if there hadn't been the war in the first place. Cause and Effect.

Agree with that, but what I'm saying is they botched the after the war response and had they handled it differently, Hitler may not have been such an attractive option. That is of course with hindsight and is only what I was taught in History at school and university.

 

[Kumquat]

Not wearing the Poppy to honour the fallen of the British Army and colonial soldiers fighting for Britain is completely up to him. It says he was bought up on the streets where British Paras shot and killed the Bloody Sunday marchers. Im not surprised that he doesnt want any part in rememberance of that event.

The only problem is that thousands of free Irishmen joined the British Army during both wars and many fell...If he doesnt feel like he wants to honour them because they fell for Britain...fair play to the lad.

Agree with this.

 

[the right footed denilson]

I happen to believe that racism in football has been al but eradicated,

A surprising opinion given that in the last few months a former England captain has been charged by the FA for using racist language and in the last few weeks a 13 (THIRTEEN) year old has been banned by Millwall for calling a black player a slave, and an England u21 match has ended in a punch-up as a result of constant racism from both players, supporters AND the management team.

With regards McLean- it's his choice. Let's get over it.

 

[User removed 4]

I absolutely would. Hope this helps.

But by banging on about this, you're derailing an interesting thread on the merits of poppy wearing, IMO, bushy. I reckon it belongs on another thread.

It was the only comparison that immediately sprang to mind .

 

[kjgood]

It depends on what side of the political fence you come from. Those who are Catholic would call it Derry, Prodestants call it Londonderry. Locals from the area call it 'Stroke City' as in Londonderry/(Stroke)Derry if they dont know which side of the divide you are.

would that be Londonderry

Hey wtf people should move on - many on both sides suffered in NI but Rememberance Day is special for our nation and all those that never returned home from all wars.

 

[BigGully]

I disagree, this wasn't a personal choice where he buys a poppy at the local supermarket, this was the English Premier League, lending its support to those that have fallen in the many conflicts and he enjoys many privileges playing within it.

He could of actually worn one without contradicting his prejudices, but he chose not to.

Just dont trip over yourselves with your understanding of the troubles, history and your uber tolerances.

He is just a lucky lad that doesn't like the English, he'll take your money and your applause, but deep down he resents us and what we stand for, so personally I think he is a pratt.