James Mclean - Sunderland refused to wear shirt with poppy on

[User removed 4]

bit lost now, i'm just saying, there's a lot of talk of 'innocent' people being killed, the target in question walked away unscathed here while five others were killed and this was on our doorstep. There's some on here that are old enough to have been staggering past The Grand at three in the morning after being chucked out of Coasters, it could have been a lot worse and more personal

they must have been taking their time then, it closed at one .

 

[Dr. Notthenineo'clocknews]

they must have been taking their time then, it closed at one .

when you were 16/17 did it never take you 2 hours to walk 100 yards in the early hours of a Saturday morning?

 

[Simster]

By far the most bigoted post on this thread.
Couple of corrections:
1/ It's Londonderry
2/ It's Northern Ireland , and the majority in the south realise this. Unlike the bigoted republicans in the north they can see that a unified Ireland would never work.
3/ If you are suggesting that death in the troubles was caused as a direct result of British action alone, then I think you are forgetting three simple letters. I.R.A.

1/ It's no more Londonderry than it is Derry. Whilst Londonderry is the legal name, they are BOTH officially recognised names for the city. By correcting him, you're the one displaying bigotry by insisting on "correcting" it. Or perhaps you'd like to explain your bigotry to that bastion of unionism, "Apprentice Boys of Derry"?
2/ I'd agree with that. "the 6 counties" is a better term than "the north of Ireland" anyway, as the latter isn't really even geographically accurate. However, the point is that around half of NI Catholics and therefore a vast majority of inhabitants are happy to refer to it as Northern Ireland these days (including the bloke who now lives 4 doors down from me)
3/ Why single out the IRA when loyalist paramiliaries killed twice as many? None of that is really the point anyway as the poppies don't commemorate fallen paramiltary members do they?

 

[Dr. Notthenineo'clocknews]

1/ It's no more Londonderry than it is Derry.

you tell em Neil... YouTube

 

[Kuipers Supporters Club]

1/ It's no more Londonderry than it is Derry. Whilst Londonderry is the legal name, they are BOTH officially recognised names for the city. By correcting him, you're the one displaying bigotry by insisting on "correcting" it. Or perhaps you'd like to explain your bigotry to that bastion of unionism, "Apprentice Boys of Derry"?
2/ I'd agree with that. "the 6 counties" is a better term than "the north of Ireland" anyway, as the latter isn't really even geographically accurate. However, the point is that around half of NI Catholics and therefore a vast majority of inhabitants are happy to refer to it as Northern Ireland these days (including the bloke who now lives 4 doors down from me)
3/ Why single out the IRA when loyalist paramilitaries killed twice as many? None of that is really the point anyway as the poppies don't commemorate fallen paramiltary members do they?

1/ The legal name is Londonderry, which has just confirmed by point surely? Therfore by calling the city by its legal name how can that be bigoted?
2/ I said people in the South - these people realise that for a vast number of reasons it will be impossible to unify Ireland. The term 'North of Ireland' is stupid due to the fact that the most Northern part of the Ireland of Island is in the Republic.
3/I didn't suggest that Poppies commemorate Paramilitary members no, I was in fact suggesting that for many Republicans it is very convenient to forget that the IRA used terrorists tactics on innocent people which did no good what so ever.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

This thread is depressingly predictable.

 

[Hillian1]

It really is none of our business as to why he decided against the wearing of a poppy.

Two things though sort of stood out this weekend:

James Mclean not wearing one.
The Argentinian Rugby team wearing them and placing a wreath of poppies on the pitch before the game in Cardiff.

 

[Simster]

...

1/ The legal name is Londonderry, which has just confirmed by point surely? Therfore by calling the city by its legal name how can that be bigoted? Because you weren't doing that. You were "correcting" someone referring to it as Derry, when that term is equally acceptable. If you had mentioned the place first, and he had chimed in with "It's Derry", then I'd have said the same about him, but that's not what happened.
2/ I said people in the South - these people realise that for a vast number of reasons it will be impossible to unify Ireland. The term 'North of Ireland' is stupid due to the fact that the most Northern part of the Ireland of Island is in the Republic. Yes, as I say, I agree
3/I didn't suggest that Poppies commemorate Paramilitary members no, I was in fact suggesting that for many Republicans it is very convenient to forget that the IRA used terrorists tactics on innocent people which did no good what so ever. You brought the IRA into a dicussion on whether poppies should be worn. What is the relevance of the IRA or any other paramilitary into whether James McClean wants to wear a poppy? Clue: there is no relevance

...

 

[BigGully]

It really is none of our business as to why he decided against the wearing of a poppy.

Two things though sort of stood out this weekend:

James Mclean not wearing one.
The Argentinian Rugby team wearing them and placing a wreath of poppies on the pitch before the game in Cardiff.

The poppy on the shirt wasnt a personal issue, it was our national sport a billion pound industry acknowledging and remembering the fallen of the many conflicts, if we bothered to research the many nationalities that did wear it, I am sure there will be many players that might of chosen not to show their support, but they did.

Mclean needn't have had a moral dilemma in fact if he chose he might have had good reason to wear one, but all to predictably he regressed to the sectarian streets of Ulster and can look forward to a few hi fives and free pints of the black stuff on his return by some of his bigoted comrades.

 

[Kuipers Supporters Club]

...

...

The original quote which you first replied to was in response to a comment on British 'oppression' and 'violence' , I was responding by saying that many Irish people fought and died, and volunteered willing for the British during the First World War.
When the OP painted a very distorted view of history , he needed correcting. The IRA killed many British soldiers who should be remembered, so the IRA does have a place in the discussion surrounding remembrance, as they are a reason that many people today remember the fall, especially during the Troubles.

 

[Brovion]

This thread is depressingly predictable.

Yup. To me though what is even more depressing is the complete failure of us, humanity, to learn any lessons from conflict whatsoever. There is a general (although not universal) consensus that the 1st World War was a pointless, monumental waste of life that did nothing except sow the seeds for another, bigger war. But that wasn't the view at the time, in 1914 the British really did believe that they were embarking on a just war to 'save civilisation' and to prevent the barbarous, warmongering Huns from building an empire and achieving their 'place in the sun'. Now today we've got Afghanistan and we had Iraq; two utterly pointless wars that have done nothing except cause destruction, waste lives and breed the next generation of terrorists who have seen their fathers and elder brothers killed and want to avenge them. In thirty years' time everybody will look back and tut and say how stupid, pointless and counter-productive it all was - as they prepare for the next 'necessary' war.

 

[Mellotron]

he wouldnt be being paid good money to kick a ball around if it wasnt for the ultimate scarifice made by many. Fuckin little twat

Sorry, I can't see the logic there. Explain the link between the army's activities in Northern Ireland and the money available in Premiership football.

 

[The Spanish]

The original quote which you first replied to was in response to a comment on British 'oppression' and 'violence' , I was responding by saying that many Irish people fought and died, and volunteered willing for the British during the First World War.
When the OP painted a very distorted view of history , he needed correcting. The IRA killed many British soldiers who should be remembered, so the IRA does have a place in the discussion surrounding remembrance, as they are a reason that many people today remember the fall, especially during the Troubles.

especially as they managed to f***ing kill people while they were remembering, a crime that even sickened some of them. meanwhile up and down ireland they commemorate they IRA in monuments and ceremonies and continue to murder people up until last week. very good point about the troubles if we hadnt spent decades with our armed forces tied up trying to contain their lunatic adventure that even they in the end had to admit was a f***ing waste of time and life, then perhaps remembrance day would be very different today. i dont give a f*** about anyones nationalist background as an excuse, the irish romantic obsession with pointless armed rebellion has ruined thousands of lives and in reality achieved f*** all that couldnt have been achieved peacefully with a bit of patience and brains.

the jocks had the clearances but they never blew up kids in shopping centres over it 100 years later thinking it was somehow justified. rotten culture that romanticizes violence far far more than any dignified and solemn British remembrance of ordinary people sucked into major world wars.

 

[salty seagull]

You left out the part where at times in history these very same military men "were" the common evil to a lot of native peoples.

Will you remember those poor African, Indian Irish and multiple other indigenous peoples?

In a previous post I mentioned that we remember the war-dead of the whole commonwealth( and probably beyond). I am British and proud of it and that is where my loyalties lie. I don`t want to get in a discussion with an apologist like you about Ireland because I will find it hard to keep my temper. You probably know very little about the history of the British in India but in answer to your question, I don`t like war, I think it is always a complete tragedy that sickens me to my core. Also I think any lives that are lost in a war that is caused by politicians and not those that end up fighting and dying should be remembered, regardless of nationality, but as i said earlier I am British and it is primarily with those that were killed or injured fighting for the British cause that saddens me most. Whatever you think about the actions of the British government, do you not think those young lives deserve our respect? If you don`t then you disgust me.

 

[JCL666]

In a previous post I mentioned that we remember the war-dead of the whole commonwealth( and probably beyond). I am British and proud of it and that is where my loyalties lie. I don`t want to get in a discussion with an apologist like you about Ireland because I will find it hard to keep my temper. You probably know very little about the history of the British in India but in answer to your question, I don`t like war, I think it is always a complete tragedy that sickens me to my core. Also I think any lives that are lost in a war that is caused by politicians and not those that end up fighting and dying should be remembered, regardless of nationality, but as i said earlier I am British and it is primarily with those that were killed or injured fighting for the British cause that saddens me most. Whatever you think about the actions of the British government, do you not think those young lives deserve our respect? If you don`t then you disgust me.

WTF is the "British cause"?

 

[Simster]

especially as they managed to f***ing kill people while they were remembering, a crime that even sickened some of them. meanwhile up and down ireland they commemorate they IRA in monuments and ceremonies and continue to murder people up until last week. very good point about the troubles if we hadnt spent decades with our armed forces tied up trying to contain their lunatic adventure that even they in the end had to admit was a f***ing waste of time and life, then perhaps remembrance day would be very different today. i dont give a f*** about anyones nationalist background as an excuse, the irish romantic obsession with pointless armed rebellion has ruined thousands of lives and in reality achieved f*** all that couldnt have been achieved peacefully with a bit of patience and brains.

the jocks had the clearances but they never blew up kids in shopping centres over it 100 years later thinking it was somehow justified. rotten culture that romanticizes violence far far more than any dignified and solemn British remembrance of ordinary people sucked into major world wars.

As is often the case, I find myself agreeing with an awful lot of what you say, but arriving at a different conclusion. How can any sane person accept that the IRA's actions blowing up shopping centres were justifiable? They were nothing short of disgusting attrocities.

But I find it hard to align this line of thinking with McClean's decision not to wear a poppy. I bet if you asked him what he thought of the IRA, you'd get a response that indicated contempt but short of outright condemnation, as a nod to his Londonderry roots. And I wouldn't really have a problem with that, personally. But equally, because of his roots, Bloody Sunday is the source of his impression of the British armed services. Really there is little point debating the rights and wrongs of that day, because no-one really knows what went on - or rather, what went on depends on who is telling the story.

But rather than calling him a little twat for wearing a poppy, I'd rather just try and understand his point of view.

 

[salty seagull]

WTF is the "British cause"?

It would, quite obviously, depend on which war you are talking about. It could be the defeating Napoleans troops in Egypt to keep our trade with India open, It could be defeating the Nazi`s. It could be defending British subjects in the Falklands etc. All these servicemen died for, what was at that time, the British cause. That is WTF it is.

 

[Ninja Elephant]

Surprised that a Canadian would not wear a poppy,a lot of Canadians in Brighton and Newhaven in the early 40s went to Dieppe...very few came back,can remember them marching to Newhaven to board their craft. But it is a personal choice if you want to wear a poppy or not
but it is becoming a do-gooder cause to demilitarise the poppy...remembrance day has worked since the end of the war...why try and changed it for two minutes respect per year!

Sorry, I worded my post a bit obscurely, the Irish side of her family refuse to wear the poppy. The Canadian side are very passionate about the cause, and my housemate herself is very passionate about everything related to the world wars, and beyond.

 

[The Spanish]

As is often the case, I find myself agreeing with an awful lot of what you say, but arriving at a different conclusion. How can any sane person accept that the IRA's actions blowing up shopping centres were justifiable? They were nothing short of disgusting attrocities.

But I find it hard to align this line of thinking with McClean's decision not to wear a poppy. I bet if you asked him what he thought of the IRA, you'd get a response that indicated contempt but short of outright condemnation, as a nod to his Londonderry roots. And I wouldn't really have a problem with that, personally. But equally, because of his roots, Bloody Sunday is the source of his impression of the British armed services. Really there is little point debating the rights and wrongs of that day, because no-one really knows what went on - or rather, what went on depends on who is telling the story.

But rather than calling him a little twat for wearing a poppy, I'd rather just try and understand his point of view.

plenty of sane people thought it was justified. being sane does not prevent you from condoning or agreeing with things that others view as evil or wicked. if only lunatics were involved in violent conflicts they would be far easier to stop.

yes he might say that to you, but when the bucket comes round in a pub he feels comfortable in, it may be a very different story.

short of discussing this with him (assuming that you got the truth) it is difficult to get his point of view, i understand people from nationalist communities issues with HM forces, but understanding that doesnt stop me thinking their idiotic nasty and bloodthirsty campaign was evil and totally unneccessary.

 

[BigGully]

It would, quite obviously, depend on which war you are talking about. It could be the defeating Napoleans troops in Egypt to keep our trade with India open, It could be defeating the Nazi`s. It could be defending British subjects in the Falklands etc. All these servicemen died for, what was at that time, the British cause. That is WTF it is.

Yep, thats seems reasonable, I kinda understood thats what it meant when you posted it.

Not sure why JCL66 found this so unpalatable/confusing.