James Mclean - Sunderland refused to wear shirt with poppy on

[Cian]

The RBL support ex servicemen from many wars and from many nations. This I assume also includes the many Republic of Ireland men who volunteered to assist the Allies in the fight against Naziism despite Ireland being a neutral country.

There is a RBL nursing home in Dublin amongst other activities here. The poppys are occasionally sold here too, although not that often, and you do see people wearing them, particularly on Rememberance Sunday.

The stage where you are effectively forced to wear a poppy if in the public eye has stripped absolutely and all meaning from it, though. Being forced to wear something to commemorate people who died fighting for freedom is paradoxical.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Lol I think I'll join ya.
At least everybody on here (so far) seems to agree that our lads that have fallen or are still serving deserve our thoughts & that most of us are thankful whether we publicly display our appreciation or not

Correct.

 

[genre b. good]

no it isnt "fair enough"

it is disrespectful and not least because of the number of good people who lost rheir lives preventing Northern Ireland from being subsumed into the south

Weren't 6 people from the estate he grew up on killed by the British army? The soldiers who did this will now be 60-odd, in the Royal British Legion and directly benefitting from the poppy appeal money. If he doesn't want to actively support the people who killed his friends/neighbours then it really is "fair enough" - presumably he felt disrespecting his community would be worse than disrespecting their killers.

I'm not offended by Maclean's action in the slightest but I do think it hypocritical that his principles are so strong that he won't wear a poppy because of his views on the British (presumably he sees himself as an Irishman) but he is quite happy to earn his living from the British.

I assume his problem is more with 'remembering' certain British actions rather than actively hating Britain.

Unless British soldiers are charged with murder* then I won't expect those directly affected by their actions to start supporting them in public. Cameron described their actions as "unjustified and unjustifiable" when apologising in 2010 after the Inquiry.

After all the Inquiries and the call for prosecutions, the situation is somewhat similar to Hillsborough but seemingly less 'cosy' for people to accept. Of course it wasn't merely negligence which led to the deaths in Ireland. Presumably everyone who thinks McLean is being unreasonable or a twat, thinks Anne Williams and the Hillsborough families should start buying The Sun again and raising money for the South Yorkshire Police retirement fund?

*In case you think I'm being melodramatic and because hardly anyone on this thread seems to accept that McLean may have some justification for his actions, they will probably be taken to trial in the next few years Bloody Sunday soldiers could face murder charges as police announce criminal investigation - Telegraph

 

[CT1]

No way should he wear a poppy and I am delighted to see that he hasn't done so. My mum is from Ardoyne in North Belfast, a very similar place to Free Derry in terms of deprivation and republicanism. Both areas together have seen hundreds of innocent catholics from their communities killed at the hands of the British army. No one from those areas should have to wear something that honors that army. However, its good to see that a lot of British people can understand that. Also its important to remember that people who don't wear a poppy still remember and mourn those who made the ultimate sacrifice in world wars one and two. Indeed it wasn't just English men and women that fought for the British in those wars, but many, and certainly me, cannot remember and pay respect to those who inflicted terror in places such as the Falklands and Ireland and today in Afghanistan. The armys intentions in Afghanistan are good but its a waste of life. We have bigger problems of our own here in Britain. The Falklands was also a massive waste of life, with over 250 of our troops dying to keep a few islands under the crown. As for the north of Ireland, that 'country' should never even have been established, it should have been given back to the Irish along with the south when it was instead partitioned in 1921, at the time around the British empire was coming to its end. Instead partition indeed was the case, resulting in the death of 3000 in the troubles, and the death of a prison officer just last week! Some just can't remember those who took part in these things and rightly so.

 

[dreaming spires]

If everyone got made to wear one, it would be meaningless. He chose not to wear one, fair enough.

No surprise with your reply!

 

[8ace]

Scum.

 

[8ace]

And what? He's from N Ireland, obv doesn't believe in the course so doesn't want to wear a poppy. Fine...

How many Ulstermen died at the Somme

 

[Soulman]

No way should he wear a poppy and I am delighted to see that he hasn't done so. My mum is from Ardoyne in North Belfast, a very similar place to Free Derry in terms of deprivation and republicanism. Both areas together have seen hundreds of innocent catholics from their communities killed at the hands of the British army. No one from those areas should have to wear something that honors that army. However, its good to see that a lot of British people can understand that. Also its important to remember that people who don't wear a poppy still remember and mourn those who made the ultimate sacrifice in world wars one and two. Indeed it wasn't just English men and women that fought for the British in those wars, but many, and certainly me, cannot remember and pay respect to those who inflicted terror in places such as the Falklands and Ireland and today in Afghanistan. The armys intentions in Afghanistan are good but its a waste of life. We have bigger problems of our own here in Britain. The Falklands was also a massive waste of life, with over 250 of our troops dying to keep a few islands under the crown. As for the north of Ireland, that 'country' should never even have been established, it should have been given back to the Irish along with the south when it was instead partitioned in 1921, at the time around the British empire was coming to its end. Instead partition indeed was the case, resulting in the death of 3000 in the troubles, and the death of a prison officer just last week! Some just can't remember those who took part in these things and rightly so.

As a poster that lost my GF at Dunkirk, my Dad fought in Malaya in 1952, my Uncle and Aunt in the RAF... etc. Then maybe McLean should play in NI and not take the coin from the English game eh.

 

[Perkino]

I've been to away games where a former player has passed away previously and they do a min silence for them. It means nothing to me but out of respect I keep quiet and spend the time thinking of those we have lost. The poppy on the shirt is a nice gesture by the clubs on a day that the nation remembers those who have lost their lives in winning us the freedom that we currently have, if he is a resident here then he should wear a poppy along with his colleagues and be thank full that he can live in a peaceful country thanks to the efforts of previous generations.

It's not about him or his homeland, it's about being great full that honourable men and women have lost their lives defending us

 

[Wozza]

I'm not offended by Maclean's action in the slightest but I do think it hypocritical that his principles are so strong that he won't wear a poppy because of his views on the British (presumably he sees himself as an Irishman) but he is quite happy to earn his living from the British.

In fairness, he works for an Irish-owned company under an Irish manager. Just so happens that most of the customers are British.

 

[User removed 4]

No way should he wear a poppy and I am delighted to see that he hasn't done so. My mum is from Ardoyne in North Belfast, a very similar place to Free Derry in terms of deprivation and republicanism. Both areas together have seen hundreds of innocent catholics from their communities killed at the hands of the British army. No one from those areas should have to wear something that honors that army. However, its good to see that a lot of British people can understand that. Also its important to remember that people who don't wear a poppy still remember and mourn those who made the ultimate sacrifice in world wars one and two. Indeed it wasn't just English men and women that fought for the British in those wars, but many, and certainly me, cannot remember and pay respect to those who inflicted terror in places such as the Falklands and Ireland and today in Afghanistan. The armys intentions in Afghanistan are good but its a waste of life. We have bigger problems of our own here in Britain. The Falklands was also a massive waste of life, with over 250 of our troops dying to keep a few islands under the crown. As for the north of Ireland, that 'country' should never even have been established, it should have been given back to the Irish along with the south when it was instead partitioned in 1921, at the time around the British empire was coming to its end. Instead partition indeed was the case, resulting in the death of 3000 in the troubles, and the death of a prison officer just last week! Some just can't remember those who took part in these things and rightly so.

Hundreds of innocent catholics killed by the british army in Londonderry and belfast ?? do f*** off, emotive rubbish spouted to you by your mother , who I would suggest shares the same streak of hypocrisy as james mclean.

 

[Simster]

There was an interesting interview on Andrew Marr's programme this morning with an Army commander who I thought conducted himself very well in response to the very question of what the poppy is meant to represent. Marr didn't mention Ireland, I don't think, but did ask the more recent obvious example of Afghanistan. Pointing out that people almost universally accept that the second world war was a just war, Marr asked if the army would see the Afghanistan war in the same light. The guy responded saying he thought it had tackled a real threat and that it had prevented attacks on the UK.

Personally I've always identified the poppy with the second world war. I do feel uncomfortable with its links to recent wars because I don't see them as just. This does not mean I don't respect the servicemen involved in those wars, and not least their families, who have to deal with the same emotions, whatever the war. However, I think people like McClean have every right to express their right not to wear the poppy if they feel that their memories of the British Army correlate with injustice. We cannot pretend that every war we thought has been just and so consequently there will be people whose memories of the British Army are less savoury. To me, that is what part of being a tolerant and civilised nation means. I, for one, have worn my poppy with pride in memory of the brave people who protected our freedom, but at the same time I respect those who don't want to celebrate the memory of men who for them mean pain and not pride.

Best post of the thread.

 

[Simster]

I'm not offended by Maclean's action in the slightest but I do think it hypocritical that his principles are so strong that he won't wear a poppy because of his views on the British (presumably he sees himself as an Irishman) but he is quite happy to earn his living from the British.

I have no such feeling on the matter. McLean is from probably the most divided city in western Europe, the two sides cannot even agree what to call the place. He is from the side that feels wronged having had 12 people shot dead at the hands of British soldiers. I'm not getting into the rights and wrongs of that, but those people now associate the British army with this incident rather than one of the more noble causes the army has fought for. And despite this, his city remains British, despite 70% of the city's population not wanting it to be that way.

I'd say he's unlikely to struggle to justify his decision to earn his living from British people. He probably concludes it is the very least people like him deserve. I can understand that, and don't consider him a hypocrite for doing so.

 

[ROKERITE]

No way should he wear a poppy and I am delighted to see that he hasn't done so. My mum is from Ardoyne in North Belfast, a very similar place to Free Derry in terms of deprivation and republicanism. Both areas together have seen hundreds of innocent catholics from their communities killed at the hands of the British army. No one from those areas should have to wear something that honors that army. However, its good to see that a lot of British people can understand that. Also its important to remember that people who don't wear a poppy still remember and mourn those who made the ultimate sacrifice in world wars one and two. Indeed it wasn't just English men and women that fought for the British in those wars, but many, and certainly me, cannot remember and pay respect to those who inflicted terror in places such as the Falklands and Ireland and today in Afghanistan. The armys intentions in Afghanistan are good but its a waste of life. We have bigger problems of our own here in Britain. The Falklands was also a massive waste of life, with over 250 of our troops dying to keep a few islands under the crown. As for the north of Ireland, that 'country' should never even have been established, it should have been given back to the Irish along with the south when it was instead partitioned in 1921, at the time around the British empire was coming to its end. Instead partition indeed was the case, resulting in the death of 3000 in the troubles, and the death of a prison officer just last week! Some just can't remember those who took part in these things and rightly so.

What a bigoted, twisted view of history.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

The next time you are doing something special, maybe a holiday, your childs birthday, even a visit to the Amex, spare a thought for those young lads that died in agony in a rat-infested trench, or on a cold muddy field in France. Maybe swallowed up by icy seas or burning in a shot-down plane. Many of these men left behind families and many weren`t even old enough to have experienced the magic of fatherhood.These men were fighting a common evil, so f*** McLean and his freedom of choice. We must always remember them.

You left out the part where at times in history these very same military men "were" the common evil to a lot of native peoples.

Will you remember those poor African, Indian Irish and multiple other indigenous peoples?

 

[Dr. Notthenineo'clocknews]

just a reminder, on the 12th October 1984 the IRA murdeded 5 people in our own city

 

[The Spanish]

just a reminder, on the 12th October 1984 the IRA murdeded 5 people in our own city

i am going to refuse to eat any potato based food on that day from now on. two can play at this game.


JOKE.

We get crap Irish history lessons posted up ad nauseum but it takes 6 pages before someone mentions the fuckers matey sees as his defenders were taking it to us as well.

 

[Dr. Notthenineo'clocknews]

i am going to refuse to eat any potato based food on that day from now on. two can play at this game.

bit lost now, i'm just saying, there's a lot of talk of 'innocent' people being killed, the target in question walked away unscathed here while five others were killed and this was on our doorstep. There's some on here that are old enough to have been staggering past The Grand at three in the morning after being chucked out of Coasters, it could have been a lot worse and more personal

 

[Albumen]

Ah there's nothing like a forced charity. I used to wear a poppy, I gave money. Now I give money to something else, it's called choice. Who didn't give money to children in need this year? YOU SELFISH BASTARDS etc.

 

[Kuipers Supporters Club]

No way should he wear a poppy and I am delighted to see that he hasn't done so. My mum is from Ardoyne in North Belfast, a very similar place to Free Derry in terms of deprivation and republicanism. Both areas together have seen hundreds of innocent catholics from their communities killed at the hands of the British army. No one from those areas should have to wear something that honors that army. However, its good to see that a lot of British people can understand that. Also its important to remember that people who don't wear a poppy still remember and mourn those who made the ultimate sacrifice in world wars one and two. Indeed it wasn't just English men and women that fought for the British in those wars, but many, and certainly me, cannot remember and pay respect to those who inflicted terror in places such as the Falklands and Ireland and today in Afghanistan. The armys intentions in Afghanistan are good but its a waste of life. We have bigger problems of our own here in Britain. The Falklands was also a massive waste of life, with over 250 of our troops dying to keep a few islands under the crown. As for the north of Ireland, that 'country' should never even have been established, it should have been given back to the Irish along with the south when it was instead partitioned in 1921, at the time around the British empire was coming to its end. Instead partition indeed was the case, resulting in the death of 3000 in the troubles, and the death of a prison officer just last week! Some just can't remember those who took part in these things and rightly so.

By far the most bigoted post on this thread.
Couple of corrections:
1/ It's Londonderry
2/ It's Northern Ireland , and the majority in the south realise this. Unlike the bigoted republicans in the north they can see that a unified Ireland would never work.
3/ If you are suggesting that death in the troubles was caused as a direct result of British action alone, then I think you are forgetting three simple letters. I.R.A.