Insider getting cross?

[strings]

I always thought that we supported one of the most open clubs in the league - few other clubs would make it so easy to ask them questions on an open public forum.

What worries me, is that we have already lost the 'ask the club' facilitiy once due to silly questions. If we lose it again, it may become pernament.

 

[CHAPPERS]

This continual asking of questions that the club can't answer due of business reasons or demands that they couldn't realistically meet and then getting worked up because they don't tell / give you what you want to hear sums up what is wrong with the club at the moment, - it is a control freak attitude, the need of fans to feel in charge / control of what is happening there almost on a day to day basis, is starting to go too far.

Yes, I agree.

 

[Bwian]

Straight answers to straight questions is a reasonable request is it not?

And if we had better communication/clarity from the top we wouldnt have to involve Insider!

Once and for all the situation is this: The club have signed a building contract with the Buckingham Group to build the stadium. Not part of it, the whole of it.

Buckingham will enter into sub-contracts to undertake all the tasks to build the stadium including the steel frame erection. Buckingham have agreed with us a detailed programme that lays down what will happen at various stages of the development. That programme runs from the beginning of December 2008 with the start of the Village Way works until June 2011 when Buckingham will hand the stadium over to The Community Stadium Ltd.

Currently the project is on programme. From April when the Village Way works have finished work they will move on to the stadium development.

Both Buckingham Group and TCSL employs a number of experienced individuals in all areas of stadium construction to make sure that the project is delivered on time and on budget. This is a major project with many critical paths, all of which are being met by those tasked with doing so.


Insider has said in the above that the project is on programme and all critical paths are being met by those tasked with doing so. What more do you want to know?

Start questioning if things look like the project has ground to a halt-until then, why keep asking for details that don't concern you?

 

[Acker79]

Insider has said in the above that the project is on programme and all critical paths are being met by those tasked with doing so. What more do you want to know?

I think chimney wants to know if the steel has been ordered. That reply doesn't answer that question.

 

[chimneys]

Who do you propose your first point of communication with the club be then?

Martin Perry (and I dont mean to me personally but to the fans in general in one medium so we all know where to look. On a monthly basis I would say is reasonable).

We all appreciated the explicit timing given in his programme notes of the October match Uter put up here yesterday, but some of us get shot down when we ask 5 months later whether all the timescales so explicitly mentioned in that piece are still on track/completed The steel ordering is the most important and should be the simplest to answer yes/no.

All that said (I certainly dont feel I have), but do not want to be accused of abusing the Ask The Club facility, so will not ask any more Falmer construction questions for the time being (for the record its 4 to date and 2 were clarification questions because of vague answers given).

Interesting that lots dont agree with the asking of such questions but its one of the most popular topics on Ask The Club, judging by the number of hits!

 

[brighton rock]

good time to build at the moment, steel and timber are cheap with plenty of workers looking for jobs ,and the new parker steel plant at shorham gets into full swing this summer.

 

[ROSM]

Insider has said in the above that the project is on programme and all critical paths are being met by those tasked with doing so. What more do you want to know?

I think chimney wants to know if the steel has been ordered. That reply doesn't answer that question.

It answers it and a lot more. It says that all items are on track. It was probably a more detailed answer than the question warranted in order to prevent the next questions such as 'has the grass type been selected? have we ensured there is enough green and yellow earth cable sleeving available?' and so on.

 

[Man of Harveys]

As has been posted on here before, if I was building a stadium I wouldn't be half as bothered as the club are currently being to answer an endless stream of questions on potentially-sensitive subjects about it, asked by a seemingly insatiatable set of people, a small number of whom clearly have their own agendas, put it that way. I'd just get on and build the bloody thing.

I doubt there are many clubs as open as ours, but for some it's maybe never going to be enough. That's not to say people shouldn't ask questions, of course, but just that asking the same ones over and over again and receiving the same answer over and over again means there's probably a good enough reason for them not being answered.

I've just come up with a great new catchphrase: keep the faith. Not sure it'll catch on...

 

[Acker79]

And what about the trust that fans should show towards the officials at the club?

When the board before them almost killed the club with their secrecy and skullduggery, it burned the fans. When DK et al took over they promised to be open. They were.

But now they've stopped being so open when they didn't have an issue being open in the past, now suddenly they're closing ranks, shutting us out, it makes trusting them very hard.

This continual asking of questions that the club can't answer due of business reasons or demands that they couldn't realistically meet and then getting worked up because they don't tell / give you what you want to hear sums up what is wrong with the club at the moment, - it is a control freak attitude, the need of fans to feel in charge / control of what is happening there almost on a day to day basis, is starting to go too far.

It isn't about control. It's about fear. It's about not knowing. We have been "homeless" for so long, we've had so much trouble with getting falmer, and so much money being spent in economically tough times. It isn't a case of wantinig to feel in control of what's happening, it's about being afraid things aren't happening, and wanting the reassurance that things are progressing. Specifics.

The question of if the steel has been ordered is entirely answerable. There aren't any business reasons for it not to be answered, it's not an unrealistically meetable demand. It is a simple question that requires a simple answer.


The problems with Archer et al came about because we waited too long to ask questions, fans don't want to make the same mistake. Not out of control, but out of fear, and wanting to protect this club, our club.

Personally, I'm happy to just watch falmer, but not being an expert in building I can't always see what progress is being made (I don't know a lot about building, but I know there is probably more progress that I can see, I mean, I look at its current state and wonder why it took them so long to dig a bit of mud, but I also understand that that is probably my loack of building knowledge), but I don't think it's unreasonable to ask about key stages in the building, and if the answer you get is a politician's answer skirting around the question and not giving you a proper answer - even if it's not the one you want - I don't think it's unreasonable to ask again for clarity.

 

[CHAPPERS]

I think chimney wants to know if the steel has been ordered. That reply doesn't answer that question.

So? Why does he deserve to know.

Would one like to be told when it's meant to be arriving, who is delivering it and how much it costs too?

 

[Acker79]

It answers it and a lot more. It says that all items are on track. It was probably a more detailed answer than the question warranted in order to prevent the next questions such as 'has the grass type been selected? have we ensured there is enough green and yellow earth cable sleeving available?' and so on.

It really doesn't.

Chimney believes (I don't know, I'm not a buiilder) that the ordering of the steel is a key stage, I don't think many peopple will think the same of wiring or nuts and bolts. He asks specifically if the steel has been ordered, citing that we were given a vague time frame for when it would be ordered, not a specific one, without a time frame for it there is no track for it to be on.

So the if the steel has been ordered or not is not covered in the answer.

 

[ROSM]

It really doesn't.

Chimney believes (I don't know, I'm not a buiilder) that the ordering of the steel is a key stage, I don't think many peopple will think the same of wiring or nuts and bolts. He asks specifically if the steel has been ordered, citing that we were given a vague time frame for when it would be ordered, not a specific one, without a time frame for it there is no track for it to be on.

So the if the steel has been ordered or not is not covered in the answer.

most building copanies use 'just in time' project management which means that material is ordered and scheduled to arrive when it is needed and not before (it saves it cluttering up the place). So to receive an answer that says the project is on schedule means that if the steel is required then it has been ordered and if it isn't (say we need it in 10 weeks and the order period is 8) then it hasn't but that is nothing to worry about.

It is a full answer

 

[chimneys]

So? Why does he deserve to know.

Would one like to be told when it's meant to be arriving, who is delivering it and how much it costs too?

I dont, WE do!

For the last time, the focus specifically upon the steel ordering is that a £5m steel order is the best proof that funding is in place.

Its only ever needed a yes/no, but I shall now let it be as I appreciate we have got all we are going to from the club on this point until we see it on site.

 

[Acker79]

So? Why does he deserve to know.

Why does one have to 'deserve' to know the answer? Chimney would like to know the answer.

Given the board promised to be open when they took over, why should they have a problem answer a simple, non invasive question?

Would one like to be told when it's meant to be arriving, who is delivering it and how much it costs too?

I can't speak for Chimney, but I don't get the impression from his question that he would.

 

[Acker79]

So to receive an answer that says the project is on schedule means that if the steel is required then it has been ordered and if it isn't (say we need it in 10 weeks and the order period is 8) then it hasn't but that is nothing to worry about.

So, you're saying that answering the question "has the steel been ordered?" with "it might have, it might not have" is actually answering the question?

 

[bhaexpress]

I keep meaning to ask the Insider if they have ordered the forks and whether they are the right ones. I had better check on what quality of toilet roll they are planning to use as well.

 

[Gary Leeds]

While I do agree that the steel is probably the biggest single expense of the whole build (except maybe paying the wages of the construction workers) it is not the most important piece of expedidture. Yes I agree no steel = no stadium but the same can go for any other item right down to the bolts needed to hold the thing together, e.g. no fire doors = no safety certificate = no stadium, no cable = no electric = no stadium. Every part of the puzzle is as important as the piece before it and after it, miss one piece and thats it.

I am sure if we were building the bog standard, looks like everyone elses, stadium then it would be quicker, suppliers would have the patterns already drawn out for the framing, they would have the settings needed to bend everything to the right angles, but we are going for a stadium that doesnt look like anyone elses and that will take longer.

As has been pointed out many times the council would not have allowed the build to start unless they were certain funding is in place so for now we just have to look as the work going on on the site and the other little snippets of information that comes out and just trust the board. Where they have promised things so far they have delivered, they got control from Archer, they got us back to Brighton, they finally got the planning through for the new stadium and they have started a build. What substantial evidence does anyone have that they are going to let us down?

 

[Alex Alex Dawson oo! oo!]

I keep meaning to ask the Insider if they have ordered the forks and whether they are the right ones. I had better check on what quality of toilet roll they are planning to use as well.

Someone posted earlier this week that their firm had tendered to supply the hand driers in the toilets.

 

[itszamora]

This is ridiculous. The club have given a very detailed answer - particularly the phrase 'everything is on track'. Whether or not this means the steel has or hasn't been ordered, or even if the club know this, is surely irrelevant. And to suggest that the board are not open with the fans is frankly laughable. Is there any other league club that communicates with its' supporters in the way ours does?

 

[TWOCHOICEStom]

Given the board promised to be open when they took over, why should they have a problem answer a simple, non invasive question?

Because if they start answering questions on every aspect of the project it would start getting ridiculous!

Where do you draw the line?? and I'm not gonna say silly things like handdryers etc but seriously.. If the club start saying, yes we've ordered the steel. People will want to know how much, from who, when it'll be delivered.

And if it isn't delivered to the exact day, people will talk, it will cause problems.

Just let them get on with it without demanding to be told every piece of information you all think you have a right to know.