[Albion] Injuries 2024/25

[Terry Butcher Tribute Act]

Hurzeler said that on Dec 13th.
Whats strange about it ? (its a unusual way of summarising his current status for sure)

It's strange that he had a chance to make the squad for Palace, yet hasn't been seen training or made the bench 4 matches later.

 

[chaileyjem]

Every business has data to aid management decision making and the like.

I would love to see the data on our player's match selection availability -
yes = available (still may not be picked/play)
no = unavailable (be it injury / illness / whatever)
Then a % available to identify the major sick-notes at the bottom
e.g. Webster, Milner, March, Hinshelwood

Who is at the very bottom aka least available ...

Hurzeler shares all this data pretty much at every press conference both before and after games where he's routinely asked about player injuries and availability.
They don't give % available normally although FAB had a stab at it a couple of game ago because i guess that's a very imprecise way of communicating a return (which is often hard to predict anyway).

(Although this website aimed at FPL players has a stab at predicting "percentage of return" but its just informed guessworkl- https://www.premierinjuries.com/teams/brighton-hove-albion - )

 

[chaileyjem]

It's strange that he had a chance to make the squad for Palace, yet hasn't been seen training or made the bench 4 matches later.

Only if you think there's something strange about recoveries from injuries not being in a straight line and that there are setbacks and delays as well as faster recoveries than expected. Its normal.

 

[Bold Seagull]

It's bizarre that our injury situation is a lot worse than the average

For 2 seasons in a row

I think part of it is we have both a very young and very old members of our squad mixing experience with inexperience.

We don’t have a lot of 27 year old 250+ PL appearances under their belts. So the young players stepping up it is a physical jump for them. Same with the players coming from overseas - it’s a physically more demanding game in the PL than perhaps anywhere.

Would be interesting to look at age/PL appearances against injuries. West Ham for example have a squad of mid-20s not many youngsters full of PL experience and don’t have as many injuries. Got to be something in that?

 

[Uh_huh_him]

Its not that bizarre or strange that players get injured. And its not that strange that their recoveries are sometimes hard to predict.
its frustrating for the players and for us but hardly bizarre.

PS: Welbeck hasn't "disappeared" - he has an ankle injury, has had scans and is now in recovery. And Hurzeler went into detail about his injury at the pre Villa press conference.

The strangeness comes from the way the injuries are reported.

This may be a language barrier, but we are often informed of knocks or minor injuries which lead to players being unavailable for 6 or 7 games

Webster was reported as back in 2 or 3 weeks back in October.
Hinshelwood was a "small issue" and "we'll have to see over the next couple of days" on November 22nd

Either the communications are deliberately misleading or we are overly optimistic on our player's recovery times.

 

[Terry Butcher Tribute Act]

Only if you think there's something strange about recoveries from injuries not being in a straight line and that there are setbacks and delays as well as faster recoveries than expected. Its normal.

I suppose it's not odd for us as it happens all the bloody time.

 

[Machiavelli]

Somehow, and I am not sure exactly what it is, but we are really missing Jack.
This season, he's played 10 games, 5 wins and 3 draws - 18 points.
Without him 9 games, 1 win, 6 draws - 9 points.
I think he brings a balance to the team with whomever he plays without actually being spectacular.

It was the same last season. After he got injured we couldn't buy a win.

I hope he gets fit soon and is back in the starting 11.

Agree, but you could do something similar for Welbeck who I think we miss even more, particularly given Evan is way off form (and no-one else can play that role).

 

[SeagullsoverLondon]

Agree, but you could do something similar for Welbeck who I think we miss even more, particularly given Evan is way off form (and no-one else can play that role).

Welbeck 14 games, 6 wins, 6 draws - 24 points
Without 5 games 0 wins, 3 draws - 3 points.

So, yes get Danny and Jack back as soon as possible.

 

[chaileyjem]

The strangeness comes from the way the injuries are reported.

This may be a language barrier, but we are often informed of knocks or minor injuries which lead to players being unavailable for 6 or 7 games

Webster was reported as back in 2 or 3 weeks back in October.
Hinshelwood was a "small issue" and "we'll have to see over the next couple of days" on November 22nd

Either the communications are deliberately misleading or we are overly optimistic on our player's recovery times.

Most injury recovery times are pretty straightforward. Players do return from injury when communicated and outlined by the coach. Sometimes earlier than expected.. We've had that multiple times with players this season already.
Sometimes - they don''t. And its difficult to communicate recovery times when it not 100% guaranteed or their recovery has a setback. - yes, we've had that a few times too. All clubs have that with their players . I'd argue thats pretty expected given the types of injuries. But understand why some might want to call it bizarre or strange or unusual.

 

[chaileyjem]

I suppose it's not odd for us as it happens all the bloody time.

It happens to all clubs. And it doesn't happen "all the time" .Its just that nobody ever notices when players return routinely after an injury or when they return earlier than predicted.

 

[Machiavelli]

Welbeck 14 games, 6 wins, 6 draws - 24 points
Without 5 games 0 wins, 3 draws - 5 points.

So, yes get Danny and Jack back as soon as possible.

I make that 3 points without but, then again, moi = pedant

 

[SeagullsoverLondon]

I make that 3 points without but, then again, moi = pedant

Yes, so do I! I was still dreaming we beat Brentford 3-0 as we should have done.

 

[Machiavelli]

Yes, so do I! I was still dreaming we beat Brentford 3-0 as we should have done.

You're not allowed to say things like this. Can you not concentrate on the fact that we surrendered two goal leads to Wolves and Leicester who are in the relegation zone doncha know

 

[Couldn't Be Hyypia]

The strangeness comes from the way the injuries are reported.

This may be a language barrier, but we are often informed of knocks or minor injuries which lead to players being unavailable for 6 or 7 games

Webster was reported as back in 2 or 3 weeks back in October.
Hinshelwood was a "small issue" and "we'll have to see over the next couple of days" on November 22nd

Either the communications are deliberately misleading or we are overly optimistic on our player's recovery times.

Or there is competitive value in being vague about our squad strength?

 

[Uh_huh_him]

Most injury recovery times are pretty straightforward. Players do return from injury when communicated and outlined by the coach. Sometimes earlier than expected.. We've had that multiple times with players this season already.
Sometimes - they don''t. And its difficult to communicate recovery times when it not 100% guaranteed or their recovery has a setback. - yes, we've had that a few times too. All clubs have that with their players . I'd argue thats pretty expected given the types of injuries. But understand why some might want to call it bizarre or strange or unusual.

I appreciate your position and agree that it may well be that some of us have a knee-jerk reaction to this.

But we were recently reported as having been at the top of the table for days lost from injury, by a significant margin.
So there is clearly something different going on at at our club.
Solly March and Matt O'Riley were the only ones that were understood to have an expected extended recovery plan.

The others would seem to be out for longer than average, in comparison to the other Premier League teams.

My suspicion is that we our significantly more risk averse than many of our competitors.
I'm sure there is data which underpins this approach and no doubt, it will be advantageous for us in the long run.

But implying our current position is no different to other clubs, is demonstrably not the case.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

Or there is competitive value in being vague about our squad strength?

what possible competitive advantage could we have from implying our depth is stronger than it really is?

 

[chaileyjem]

But implying our current position is no different to other clubs, is demonstrably not the case.

The data is the data. We have lost a lot of players to injuries and we top the table of games missed to injury (so far in 24/25). Agreed.
But that's only one metric - injuries are of many types, but most of the discussion on here is about expectation management.
Club say x player is due back [vague estimation of date] - player misses this date = something must be going on.
its this thats really not unusual. ? Happens to other clubs.
As to overall volume of injuries being an issue then of course and presumably club have partly acknowledged that and tried to address it with the recruitment of a new medical team a few months ago. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/articles/cd13w1dr241o

 

[chaileyjem]

Or there is competitive value in being vague about our squad strength?

Plenty of times this season (and for other clubs too) players pick up injuries and/or illness and miss the squad in between the press conference and matchday. eg: Estupinan missed last night due to illness. Very very occasionally player appears in squad after injury recovery without coach flagging that this is the case so i guess there's sometimes value in that.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

The data is the data. We have lost a lot of players to injuries and we top the table of games missed to injury (so far in 24/25). Agreed.
But that's only one metric - injuries are of many types, but most of the discussion on here is about expectation management.
Club say x player is due back [vague estimation of date] - player misses this date = something must be going on.
its this thats really not unusual. ? Happens to other clubs.
As to overall volume of injuries being an issue then of course and presumably club have partly acknowledged that and tried to address it with the recruitment of a new medical team a few months ago. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/articles/cd13w1dr241o

I suspect the extended recovery times is more likely to be due to the new medical team's approach to long term reduction in injuries.
Lets hope it works

 

[Mackenzie]

Imagine If they’d have to play European games as well, we’d be down to the under 12s.