[Football] IFAB Keeper Timewasting Experiment

Mellor 3 Ward 4 · Mar 3, 2025

Just stick a centre forward in front of keeper, meaning keeper can't drop the ball....

thedonkeycentrehalf · Mar 3, 2025

Mellor 3 Ward 4 said:
Just stick a centre forward in front of keeper, meaning keeper can't drop the ball....

Once the keeper has dropped the ball it is 'in play' so makes no difference to time wasting.

Mellor 3 Ward 4 · Mar 3, 2025

thedonkeycentrehalf said:
Once the keeper has dropped the ball it is 'in play' so makes no difference to time wasting.

Of course, but if a CF stands in front of the keeper, the keeper can't drop the ball or kick it unhindered.

Washie · Mar 3, 2025

Mellor 3 Ward 4 said:
Of course, but if a CF stands in front of the keeper, the keeper can't drop the ball or kick it unhindered.

Then it hits the strike then you get an indirect free-kick, wasting even more time. Plus the striker gets a yellow.

hans kraay fan club · Mar 3, 2025

Washie said:
Then it hits the strike then you get an indirect free-kick, wasting even more time. Plus the striker gets a yellow.

It doesn't even need to hit him. If he's stopping you from performing the ball release you want, then its an infringement - and he's at risk of a yellow.

Lady Whistledown · Mar 3, 2025

Washie said:
Then it hits the strike then you get an indirect free-kick, wasting even more time. Plus the striker gets a yellow.

Well no, because if the ball is in play as the keeper has dropped it intending to kick it from the ground rather than from his hand, then that would not be an offence, it would be a tackle.

Joey Jo Jo Jr. Shabadoo · Mar 3, 2025

Mellor 3 Ward 4 said:
Just stick a centre forward in front of keeper, meaning keeper can't drop the ball....

If a player prevents the goalkeeper from playing the ball then the defending team should be awarded an indirect free kick.

I would imagine the 8 seconds doesn’t start until the keeper has stood up and is in a position play the ball, so the time wasting will be the keeper falling to the floor when gathering the ball and being very slow to get back up.

Martinez is probably already practicing his swan dive/getting back up routine to have it down before the start of next season, with his team mates making sure to congratulate him on the save before he regains his feet.

rippleman · Tuesday at 12:33 PM

There have been fairly recent changes to the egg chasing laws.

The ball needs to be played quicker in certain circumstances. As usual I first saw it in the southern hemisphere games. Five seconds to play the ball, the ref counts down 3-2-1 and the whistle blows and a penalty is awarded. Somehow, the officials in egg chasing are generally able to apply all rules, in all games, consistently. We don't have that in our soccer games which is presumably solely down to the quality of our officials and their training.

Whitley Bayster · Tuesday at 12:43 PM

That's Pickford screwed then ......he loves lying around, curled up with the ball, smiling to himself for at least 30 seconds at every opportunity

METALMICKY · Tuesday at 12:47 PM

Pickford and Martinez not happy bunnies I would wager!

SeagullsoverLondon · Tuesday at 12:51 PM

rippleman said:
There have been fairly recent changes to the egg chasing laws.

The ball needs to be played quicker in certain circumstances. As usual I first saw it in the southern hemisphere games. Five seconds to play the ball, the ref counts down 3-2-1 and the whistle blows and a penalty is awarded. Somehow, the officials in egg chasing are generally able to apply all rules, in all games, consistently. We don't have that in our soccer games which is presumably solely down to the quality of our officials and their training.

Yes,but the soccer refs are going to be asked to count down from 8. That's 60% harder

JBizzle · Tuesday at 12:58 PM

This is such a weird rule change. We already have a perfectly serviceable rule in place that's just never enforced. What's the point in changing the rule when after 3-4 match weeks, it'll also not be enforced?

We never score from corners, anyway

Guinness Boy · Tuesday at 1:18 PM

thedonkeycentrehalf said:
Maybe we are not as innocent as we'd like to think:

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...rner-for-holding-ball-more-than-eight-seconds

"David Elleray, the former Premier League referee and now Ifab’s technical director, cited Brighton’s victory at Manchester United last season as an example; whereas the United keeper held on to the ball for an average of 4.8sec, the Brighton goalkeeper’s average was 14.8sec"

Didn't realise Elleray was still involved in the game after all these years.

Interesting, and seems counter to how we played under RDZ. If that's the average you've got to think that one or two holds were 20-25 seconds? Typically Steele who was in goal for that game would drop fairly quickly but keep the ball at or under his foot to draw the press. This would suggest that perhaps there were times when they measured time taken for the keeper to move the ball to the next receiver, rather than drop it. We were also 3-0 up in that game at one point and never in danger of losing the lead.

The alternative is, of course, that we did hold it far too long, perhaps waiting for the right set up and our receivers to get in the right position. But our tactics were quite a long way from Martinez / Villa tactics and that game seems to be one that we wouldn't have needed to run down the clock once the second had gone in. If it's genuine time to drop then the ref should have been having a word and then booking Steele. According to the records Steele wasn't booked.

So basically it's either been measured wrongly or we've absolutely taken the mick out of the ref, who has not done his job properly.

Mellotron · Tuesday at 3:45 PM

BBC Football Article - What is the new eight second rule?

From this summer onwards, goalkeepers will be allowed eight seconds from catching the ball to releasing it, in the latest attempt to cut down on time-wasting.
Positive results in trials across England, Italy and Malta have prompted the games rule-makers, the International Football Association Board (Ifab), to change the law for the start of the 2025-26 season.

Where does this apply?

This rule will be implemented worldwide by 1 July, at all levels of the game from elite to amateur.
It will also be in place for the Club World Cup, which runs from 15 June to 13 July.

How will referees punish it?

Referees will punish goalkeepers holding on to the ball for more than eight seconds by awarding a corner to the opposition.

How will referees indicate it?

Goalkeepers will be warned by the referee when they have five seconds remaining to get rid of the ball. The referee will raise their arm and start a visual countdown with their hand.

Wasn't this already a rule?

Yes. Well, kind of, as it was rarely enforced. The current law states if a goalkeeper holds on to a ball for six seconds, then an indirect free-kick is awarded to the opposition.

What has Ifab said about the rule change?

During trials, Ifab said there had only been four instances where goalkeepers have been penalised in hundreds of matches, even with the rule being strictly applied.
Ifab technical director and former Premier League referee David Elleray told The Times: "Good law changes are where you have a very strong deterrent which everybody implements and then the problem effectively disappears.
"If it speeds up the game, if it's more positive, it means that it could be one of those very effective deterrents."

What can we expect?

The Club World Cup features Manchester City and Chelsea, so Premier League fans will be able to see how Ederson, Stefan Ortega, Robert Sanchez or Filip Jorgensen cope with that countdown for the first time.
More corners, at least at the start of the season. Set-piece coaches will start receiving even more air-time.
Early casualties. We already know how strictly rules are enforced when they are first brought in - just ask Declan Rice and Leandro Trossard, who both got handed second yellow cards early this season for delaying the restart.
The sound of the crowd sarcastically counting down when the opposition goalkeeper picks up the ball.
Expect players to get involved, too. If a team is trailing in the dying minutes of a game and a goalkeeper has the ball, there will be players who tell the referee to count quicker... or even count for them.

Are there any stats - which keepers waste time?

Unfortunately, there are no Opta statistics available for this particular 'dark art' metric - but you only have to watch football semi-regularly to spot a goalkeeper catching and diving to the ground in elaborate stages.
Elleray gave an example involving Brighton stopper Jason Steele from their 3-1 victory over Manchester United at Old Trafford in September 2023.
Steele held on to the ball for an average of 14.8 seconds, compared to Andre Onana's average of 4.8 seconds.

US Seagull · Tuesday at 3:49 PM

Mellotron said:
Referees will punish goalkeepers holding on to the ball for more than eight seconds

Great!

Mellotron said:
by awarding a corner to the opposition.

Oh, never mind then.

Wozza · Tuesday at 3:50 PM

Mellotron said:
BBC Football Article - What is the new eight second rule?

View attachment 197730

From this summer onwards, goalkeepers will be allowed eight seconds from catching the ball to releasing it, in the latest attempt to cut down on time-wasting.
Positive results in trials across England, Italy and Malta have prompted the games rule-makers, the International Football Association Board (Ifab), to change the law for the start of the 2025-26 season.

Where does this apply?
This rule will be implemented worldwide by 1 July, at all levels of the game from elite to amateur.
It will also be in place for the Club World Cup, which runs from 15 June to 13 July.

How will referees punish it?
Referees will punish goalkeepers holding on to the ball for more than eight seconds by awarding a corner to the opposition.

How will referees indicate it?
Goalkeepers will be warned by the referee when they have five seconds remaining to get rid of the ball. The referee will raise their arm and start a visual countdown with their hand.

Wasn't this already a rule?
Yes. Well, kind of, as it was rarely enforced. The current law states if a goalkeeper holds on to a ball for six seconds, then an indirect free-kick is awarded to the opposition.

What has Ifab said about the rule change?
During trials, Ifab said there had only been four instances where goalkeepers have been penalised in hundreds of matches, even with the rule being strictly applied.
Ifab technical director and former Premier League referee David Elleray told The Times: "Good law changes are where you have a very strong deterrent which everybody implements and then the problem effectively disappears.
"If it speeds up the game, if it's more positive, it means that it could be one of those very effective deterrents."

What can we expect?

The Club World Cup features Manchester City and Chelsea, so Premier League fans will be able to see how Ederson, Stefan Ortega, Robert Sanchez or Filip Jorgensen cope with that countdown for the first time.

More corners, at least at the start of the season. Set-piece coaches will start receiving even more air-time.

Early casualties. We already know how strictly rules are enforced when they are first brought in - just ask Declan Rice and Leandro Trossard, who both got handed second yellow cards early this season for delaying the restart.

The sound of the crowd sarcastically counting down when the opposition goalkeeper picks up the ball.

Expect players to get involved, too. If a team is trailing in the dying minutes of a game and a goalkeeper has the ball, there will be players who tell the referee to count quicker... or even count for them.

Are there any stats - which keepers waste time?
Unfortunately, there are no Opta statistics available for this particular 'dark art' metric - but you only have to watch football semi-regularly to spot a goalkeeper catching and diving to the ground in elaborate stages.
Elleray gave an example involving Brighton stopper Jason Steele from their 3-1 victory over Manchester United at Old Trafford in September 2023.
Steele held on to the ball for an average of 14.8 seconds, compared to Andre Onana's average of 4.8 seconds.

Any other news from last week caught your eye today? :jester: