- Nov 15, 2006
- 4,253
- Thread starter
- #301
There is also the option of a sportier Renault 5
[Technology] If you could afford it would your next car be an EV?
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There's always something better just around the corner! With the EV and the solar, we did so much research that we were starting to confuse ourselves. In the end, the best way to find out what I need is to dive in head first (and make a few mistakes, accepting things won't be "perfect"). Only then do I start to fully understand how to use it. Not sure I have much "wisdom" to offer, but I'm more than happy to share my experience!I've been planning the home solar for a long time and will make that leap in the spring, a car like the R5 seems to be the point that would bring it all together, £13.5KW is a pricey battery, and has just appeared. I thought I would have a stronger resistance, but I realise I rarely do 200+ mile journeys nowadays. Now I have to get over the Renault phobia... Love the sound of your set up, I think you must be braver than me but probably where I would like to be. I shall now reread your posts for further wisdom before supper, thank you
m20gull
Well-known member
Most days I don't drive at all and many of them no more than 10 miles. We have four cars between the two of us and three of them are V8 guzzlers that we love driving and listening to. The total cost of purchases was just over £10k. It's going to take some persuading to invest in an EV. Yes of course our costs are going to go up but all hobbies have a price. For distance work we have a smaller (2.5l) engine car with over 500 mile range. I recognise I'm a dinosaur.
For me it’s more about the impact on the environment for production, especially the impact on the environment of the under developed countries mining precious metals, the environmental impact of creating the electricity and the disposal of batteries.
Other than that I’m well up for them
dsr-burnley
Well-known member
- Aug 15, 2014
- 2,625
So, fuel costs £1230, battery (which you forgot to mention) £800, MOT £50, insurance say £300, service £90, repairs say £50. Total £2,520. I'll have that pint back, thanks.A slightly disingenuous ask, because your combustion engine car didn’t cost £0 to buy, but as a matter of fact, yes.
Here’s your car for £1000, with very little further depreciation to go:
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On the Octopus Go tariff for your home electricity, charging 8.5p/kWh your 8000 miles cost (at 3.5 miles per kWh) is 2286 kWh required. This gives a total fuel cost of £194.31.
Total cost £1194.31. You’ve saved over £1300, and you owe me a pint.
Edit: If you’re going to tell me you can’t charge at home, the Sutcliffe Street car park (or Westgate, or Bank Parade) in Burnley will see you right, but your fuel costs rise dramatically to £1234.44. Still cheaper than your combustion engine vehicle though. And you still owe me a pint.
Greg Bobkin
Silver Seagull
- May 22, 2012
- 16,028
You probably should look into it again - things have moved on if they are still your opinions. For example, there are loads of cats that could easily do 300 miles without a stop of any length, let alone an hour!
Papa Lazarou
Living in a De Zerbi wonderland
As i said , my wife managed Worthing to Birmingham and back on a single charge recently.
I think I posted about this on what was the previous main EV thread on NSC.
At least 95% of my motoring days involve a series of short drives around town that, combined, come to 15-25 miles.
As such I could cover 95% of my motoring with an EV with a range of, allowing for some contingency, 50 miles.
And the beauty of a low range is it's a small battery that, when connected to a high-speed charger away from home, would charge to full-ish in just a few minutes.
Do they have cut offs on them now? I use a car so infrequently I'd probably put it charge, and not need it for a few weeks, so it would sit there on charge. A few of my rechargeable things I've ruined the battery life by doing this, completely my own fault, I just forget. These are the sort of things that worry me about the batteries. Particularly buying second hand...I assume they all have pretty clear battery health displays?
Most EVs on the market now would cover 180 miles, easily, on a single charge although I guess you may need to take care of those with a stated range of below 250 miles once you consider a motorway kind of drive in winter temperatures, when range will decrease markedly.
As for charging time, I think the faster chargers can do 150kWh or ever 200kWh. That would equate to something like 10 miles or range for each minute charging. A 5-10 minute top-up may be all you need to get you home where you can charge cheaply overnight (hopefully).
- May 8, 2018
- 10,623
I notice Gatwick south terminal now have 22 separate 350kwh chargers
This would charge my 85kw battery from 0-80% (range 288 at 80%) in about 19 minutes.
At home I get 7.8KWH so using the midnight to 5am rate I get about 38% charge per night cheap (which is more than enough. I ran the battery down to 20% over the weekend will get back to the safety of 80%+ over two nights this week (no big deal)
No doubt things will only get better and faster in the coming years
- Nov 15, 2006
- 4,253
- Thread starter
- #312
Pretty sure that apps on your phone alert you to low charge and are available to check wherever you are. I know my neighbour uses the app on his VW ID3 all the time. He is a complete Luddite with new technology and hasn’t had a single problem on the charging front. Other things on his EV have left him stranded once and plenty of small operational niggles though.
I also believe battery discharge is incredibly slow in comparison to unused modern car usage when the car is not used.
No idea about leaving them on charge long term but I’d shit myself regularly as I lay awake at night wondering if the battery was going explode!
Question for EV owners, can you stop charging via the app or do you physically have to remove the plug?
Last edited:
- May 8, 2018
- 10,623
Yes, you can set a desired charge % and the charger will stop when it reaches this limit.
All the literature I have read suggests keeping the battery between 20 and 80% as optimal for battery life so the tech is built in, you can override this obviously.
If you wanted a max 100% charge it would also stop once it had reached 100%
- Oct 12, 2022
- 2,689
So, fuel costs £1230, battery (which you forgot to mention) £800, MOT £50, insurance say £300, service £90, repairs say £50. Total £2,520. I'll have that pint back, thanks.
Nice try, but not only have you quoted the fuel price for not charging at home, (you’re certain you have no driveway?) you’ve charged for the service and MOT separately , and added a further £50 for repairs. I’ll let it slide. Service and MOT cost £90 together, making the total £2470. Even with the battery lease, you’re quids in.
(I hold my hands up to not having checked whether the car was a battery lease Zoe, I did know that they used to do that, but hadn’t read down the description)
Being fair, there is another cost that we haven’t factored in, getting a home charger, which if you have a driveway or garage adds another £800 to initial costs, but the cost of both the car and the charger are one off.
Here are four scenarios, you’ll note that there are significant savings by running an EV in two of them, and the ICE option at your low rate of expense is only cheaper in one specific scenario.
Example 1 - a battery lease Zoe, home charging
| Years 1-3 (pa) | Years 4-6 (pa) | |
| Car | £333.33 | £0.00 |
| Home Charger | £266.67 | £0.00 |
| Fuel | £194.31 | £194.31 |
| MOT/Service | £90.00 | £90.00 |
| Insurance | £300.00 | £300.00 |
| Repairs | £50.00 | £50.00 |
| Battery Lease | £800.00 | £800.00 |
| Total (pa) | £2,034.31 | £1,434.31 |
| ICE (pa) | £2,500 | £2,500.00 |
| Total cost (over 6 years) | £10,405.86 | |
| Total ICE equivalent (6yrs) | £15,000.00 | |
| Total saving | £4,594.14 |
Example 2 - A battery lease Zoe - external charging, this is a scenario where the battery lease coupled with public charge point costs renders the ICE car as a valid choice.
| Years 1-3(pa) | Years 4-6(pa) | |
| Car | £333.00 | £0.00 |
| Home Charger | £0.00 | £0.00 |
| Fuel | £1,234.44 | £1,234.44 |
| MOT/Service | £90.00 | £90.00 |
| Insurance | £300.00 | £300.00 |
| Repairs | £50.00 | £50.00 |
| Battery Lease | £800.00 | £800.00 |
| Total (pa) | £2,807.44 | £2,474.44 |
| ICE (pa) | £2,500 | £2,500.00 |
| Total cost (over 6 years) | £15,845.64 | |
| Total ICE equivalent (6yrs) | £15,000.00 | |
| Total saving | -£845.64 |
So if we spend a bit more for a non-battery lease vehicle, I’ve upped the price to £2500, most EVs aren’t battery lease, we get different figures:
Example 3 - home charging, non battery lease.
| Years 1-3(pa) | Years 4-6(pa) | |
| Car | £833.33 | £0.00 |
| Home Charger | £0.00 | £0.00 |
| Fuel | £194.31 | £194.31 |
| MOT/Service | £90.00 | £90.00 |
| Insurance | £300.00 | £300.00 |
| Repairs | £50.00 | £50.00 |
| Battery Lease | £0.00 | £0.00 |
| Total (pa) | £1,467.64 | £634.31 |
| ICE (pa) | £2,500 | £2,500.00 |
| Total cost (over 6 years) | £6,305.86 | |
| Total ICE equivalent (6yrs) | £15,000.00 | |
| Total saving | £8,694.14 |
Example 4 - non battery lease, external charging.
Paying public charging costs will always reduce the level of saving you’re making, but even here we’re saving on your existing costs.
| Years 1-3(pa) | Years 4-6(pa) | |
| Car | £833.33 | £0.00 |
| Home Charger | £0.00 | £0.00 |
| Fuel | £1,234.44 | £1,234.44 |
| MOT/Service | £90.00 | £90.00 |
| Insurance | £300.00 | £300.00 |
| Repairs | £50.00 | £50.00 |
| Battery Lease | ||
| Total (pa) | £2,507.77 | £1,674.44 |
| ICE (pa) | £2,500 | £2,500.00 |
| Total cost (over 6 years) | £12,546.63 | |
| Total ICE equivalent (6yrs) | £15,000.00 | |
| Total saving | £2,453.37 |
That’s where we are right now. I hope your existing vehicle gives you many years of trouble-free service, but at the point that something expensive happens to it, electric is well worth looking at.
dsr-burnley
Well-known member
- Aug 15, 2014
- 2,625
I admire your persistence and thanks for all the figures. But even on the assumption that buying a 10-year-old electric car will result in no more than £840 total repairs plus MOT over the next 6 years, the saving of £400 per year is not worth it. (I can't believe that there will be no new tyres, and nothing will go wrong. The £2,500 for ICE includes costs of tyres, mechanical failure, etc, because it is a longer term actual figure.)
But the idea that once a week I need to park my car half a mile away to recharge, walk home, and then walk back to the charging point to fetch it back - in winter weather - is not fun. The idea that when I go to Wetherby races - in winter - and have to stop somewhere for an hour or so to recharge - is not fun. It's inconvenient. When these cars have a sensible range at a sensible price, I will think about it, but not before.
Yes, I know that I don't have a drive. There's something about the way that I step out of the front door onto the footpath that gives it away.
- Nov 15, 2006
- 4,253
- Thread starter
- #316
f*** me! I am interested in this thread but if ever there was a TLDR that’s it
BUT I do admire your EV evangelical attitude
- Oct 12, 2022
- 2,689
f*** me! I am interested in this thread but if ever there was a TLDR that’s it
BUT I do admire your EV evangelical attitude
I 100% accept EVs aren’t for everyone, I don’t mind what anyone drives, but when someone tries to insinuate that importing polluting petrochemicals from the Middle East to be burnt is the cost-effective and efficient way of powering personal transport, it is a lie.
Only @dsr-burnley has to read that particular post however, and he has a magical combustion engine vehicle that doesn’t depreciate, doesn’t go wrong, and apparently cost him nothing. EVs still manage to be cheaper mind.
- Nov 15, 2006
- 4,253
- Thread starter
- #318
Just off to rev my engine
- Oct 12, 2022
- 2,689
Just off to rev my engine
Enjoy. We’ll have full scale war in the Middle East soon, and you won’t be able to afford to.
- Nov 15, 2006
- 4,253
- Thread starter
- #320
As likely as the Chinese taking control of your car
I am joshing, I do get EVs, just not for me