[Technology] If you could afford it would your next car be an EV?

[chickens]

Electric cars as cheap as petrol? Like I said, my running costs incuding depreciation are about £2500 per year. Could I buy and run a second hand electric vehicle for that?

A slightly disingenuous ask, because your combustion engine car didn’t cost £0 to buy, but as a matter of fact, yes.

Here’s your car for £1000, with very little further depreciation to go:

Auto Trader UK - New and Used Cars For Sale

Find your next car with Auto Trader UK, the official #1 site to buy and sell new and used cars. Over 400,000 cars online. Simple, easy, quick!

www.autotrader.co.uk

On the Octopus Go tariff for your home electricity, charging 8.5p/kWh your 8000 miles cost (at 3.5 miles per kWh) is 2286 kWh required. This gives a total fuel cost of £194.31.

Total cost £1194.31. You’ve saved over £1300, and you owe me a pint.

Edit: If you’re going to tell me you can’t charge at home, the Sutcliffe Street car park (or Westgate, or Bank Parade) in Burnley will see you right, but your fuel costs rise dramatically to £1234.44. Still cheaper than your combustion engine vehicle though. And you still owe me a pint.

 

[Flounce]

A slightly disingenuous ask, because your combustion engine car didn’t cost £0 to buy, but as a matter of fact, yes.

Here’s your car for £1000, with very little further depreciation to go:

Auto Trader UK - New and Used Cars For Sale

Find your next car with Auto Trader UK, the official #1 site to buy and sell new and used cars. Over 400,000 cars online. Simple, easy, quick!

www.autotrader.co.uk

On the Octopus Go tariff for your home electricity, charging 8.5p/kWh your 8000 miles cost (at 3.5 miles per kWh) is 2286 kWh required. This gives a total fuel cost of £194.31.

Total cost £1194.31. You’ve saved over £1300, and you owe me a pint.

Edit: If you’re going to tell me you can’t charge at home, the Sutcliffe Street car park (or Westgate, or Bank Parade) in Burnley will see you right, but your fuel costs rise dramatically to £1234.44. Still cheaper than your combustion engine vehicle though. And you still owe me a pint.

But does it come with a balaclava for the car snobs amongst us?

 

[chickens]

But does it come with a balaclava for the car snobs amongst us?

I fear driving anything with a balaclava on in Burnley puts all the local banks into lockdown.

 

[dsr-burnley]

A slightly disingenuous ask, because your combustion engine car didn’t cost £0 to buy, but as a matter of fact, yes.

Here’s your car for £1000, with very little further depreciation to go:

Auto Trader UK - New and Used Cars For Sale

Find your next car with Auto Trader UK, the official #1 site to buy and sell new and used cars. Over 400,000 cars online. Simple, easy, quick!

www.autotrader.co.uk

On the Octopus Go tariff for your home electricity, charging 8.5p/kWh your 8000 miles cost (at 3.5 miles per kWh) is 2286 kWh required. This gives a total fuel cost of £194.31.

Total cost £1194.31. You’ve saved over £1300, and you owe me a pint.

Edit: If you’re going to tell me you can’t charge at home, the Sutcliffe Street car park (or Westgate, or Bank Parade) in Burnley will see you right, but your fuel costs rise dramatically to £1234.44. Still cheaper than your combustion engine vehicle though. And you still owe me a pint.

"Including depreciation" means that the cost of the car is taken into account.

I'm not fully au fait with how electric car pricing works, but are you sure you're correct in saying that they have no road tax, do not need servicing, and don't require insurance?

(Anyway, 130 miles range is not practical even to the most fanatical electric convert.)

 

[chickens]

"Including depreciation" means that the cost of the car is taken into account.

I'm not fully au fait with how electric car pricing works, but are you sure you're correct in saying that they have no road tax, do not need servicing, and don't require insurance?

(Anyway, 130 miles range is not practical even to the most fanatical electric convert.)

I’m sorry too, but I personally drive an EV with an 80 mile range, and do regular trips to North Devon, and less regular trips to Brighton. Brighton’s a bit of a ballache (two stops of 30 mins) but every other journey is absolutely as in an ICE car, as I’d always stop once anyway.

As such, with respect, you’re talking absolute horseshit with your last sentence.

Road tax is £0 for electric cars, insurance for the car shown is group 16, I obviously can’t calculate your premium for you, but I’m going to guess it’s lower or similar to your current drive. Plus, year 1 is the only year you have to buy the car, years 2 through 8 are £1000 cheaper again.

 

[dsr-burnley]

I’m sorry too, but I personally drive an EV with an 80 mile range, and do regular trips to North Devon, and less regular trips to Brighton. Brighton’s a bit of a ballache (two stops of 30 mins) but every other journey is absolutely as in an ICE car, as I’d always stop once anyway.

As such, with respect, you’re talking absolute [deleted] with your last sentence.

Road tax is £0 for electric cars, insurance for the car shown is group 16, I obviously can’t calculate your premium for you, but I’m going to guess it’s lower or similar to your current drive. Plus, year 1 is the only year you have to buy the car, years 2 through 8 are £1000 cheaper again.

I apologise, the most fanatical electric car driver does think that 130 miles range is practical.

However, it wouldn't be for me.

 

[chickens]

I apologise, the most fanatical electric car driver does think that 130 miles range is practical.

However, it wouldn't be for me.

That’s alright, at least we’ve proven beyond any reasonable doubt that electric motoring is cheaper and more efficient than burning petrochemicals imported from the Middle East. You crack on.

 

[dsr-burnley]

That’s alright, at least we’ve proven beyond any reasonable doubt that electric motoring is cheaper and more efficient than burning petrochemicals imported from the Middle East. You crack on.

The total absence of servicing costs in your calculation certainly helps cut costs.

 

[chickens]

The total absence of servicing costs in your calculation certainly helps cut costs.

It’s never needed anything above tyres, wiper blades and screen wash. Although I think the air con filter gets changed occasionally. MOT wise only ever had a tyre advisory.

The local garage charges me £90 for service (basically check the brake fluid and coolant levels, change the air con filter, and plug it into the laptop and check for fault codes) and MOT. So I’m still coming in with costs well below yours. I could go to Nissan and pay £160 for exactly the same service, but the disgusting cup of vending machine coffee while I’m waiting isn’t worth the £70 markup.

If you genuinely do loads of 150 mile plus journeys then absolutely running a car with range like mine would be a pain because each trip becomes two stops. I do 20000 miles a year, but the average day is 40-60 miles with occasional longer trips at weekends. I didn’t need more, except for the increasingly infrequent trips to Brighton.

I won’t go back to the combustion engine now, there are cars at every price point from £1000 to supercar level. If you can charge at home especially, the economic argument is unassailable.

 

[Sorrel]

The problem for me is the time taken to charge - though I admit I've not looked into this recently. But when doing longer trips across Britain (let's say for an away match in the north) I often see the rows of cars full of people sitting in them at motorway services, waiting for their car to charge.

If you could fill up in under 10 minutes it would make a complete change in perception. As it is, to me it seems that each trip past 160 miles or so requires an hour stop each time. This is the main problem for me.

 

[mejonaNO12 aka riskit]

I was tentatively looking for the first time at the idea of a cheap second hand EV (I'm talking CHEAP) just for the smallest of run arounds with one child. Tiny is fine.

I was really surprised to see just how cheap the Zoe's are coming up. I'll be honest, I've done no research into the matter.

What's up with them? Are they mega mega NAFF? Again, I'm just thinking of a box on wheels. Nothing more.

 

[Worried Man Blues]

The problem for me is the time taken to charge - though I admit I've not looked into this recently. But when doing longer trips across Britain (let's say for an away match in the north) I often see the rows of cars full of people sitting in them at motorway services, waiting for their car to charge.

If you could fill up in under 10 minutes it would make a complete change in perception. As it is, to me it seems that each trip past 160 miles or so requires an hour stop each time. This is the main problem for me.

Coming back from Scotland earlier this year we stopped filled up with petrol got a sandwich and parked round the back of the petrol station in a funny little car park to eat the sarnny. After a while we realised the cars round us were waiting for the electric charger to become free so they could sit for another half hour(?). So this really put the idea way out of our heads to get a full elec. now have purchased a Nissan Qashqai electric charged off of the braking etc.

 

[Fungus]

I was tentatively looking for the first time at the idea of a cheap second hand EV (I'm talking CHEAP) just for the smallest of run arounds with one child. Tiny is fine.

I was really surprised to see just how cheap the Zoe's are coming up. I'll be honest, I've done no research into the matter.

What's up with them? Are they mega mega NAFF? Again, I'm just thinking of a box on wheels. Nothing more.

No, they're not naff, they've stood the test of time. But there are a couple of things with early (ie. cheap) ones that you need to double-check. The battery may be a rental, and may cost £50 per month - this was done to keep the initial overall price down, when batteries were much more expensive. (They later moved to all-in pricing). Also, the battery (and range) may well be smaller than current models, so do a comparison. Finally, the rate at which you can charge may be a lot less than current models, but that wouldn't matter too much with a smaller battery, I guess! When I recently upgraded my home charger, I sold the old one to a guy who had bought an old Zoe (his first EV), and he was chuffed with the car.

 

[mejonaNO12 aka riskit]

No, they're not naff, they've stood the test of time. But there are a couple of things with early (ie. cheap) ones that you need to double-check. The battery may be a rental, and may cost £50 per month - this was done to keep the initial overall price down, when batteries were much more expensive. (They later moved to all-in pricing). Also, the battery (and range) may well be smaller than current models, so do a comparison. Finally, the rate at which you can charge may be a lot less than current models, but that wouldn't matter too much with a smaller battery, I guess! When I recently upgraded my home charger, I sold the old one to a guy who had bought an old Zoe (his first EV), and he was chuffed with the car.

Great. That's really useful. Thanks

 

[Fungus]

Coming back from Scotland earlier this year we stopped filled up with petrol got a sandwich and parked round the back of the petrol station in a funny little car park to eat the sarnny. After a while we realised the cars round us were waiting for the electric charger to become free so they could sit for another half hour(?). So this really put the idea way out of our heads to get a full elec. now have purchased a Nissan Qashqai electric charged off of the braking etc.

Great. That's really useful. Thanks

You might even get away with a £200 13amp "granny charger" if the battery is really small.

 

[chip]

I've changed my mind after reading about the Renault 5 EV, with a few caveats. £23-35K new, reasonable size/mass with decent range ~200 miles and does V2G. Combine this with Octopus Go type tarrif and solar PV you can have a smaller battery but still sensibly arbitrage, that saves a lot on the home battery cost without loosing capacity. No sunroof, strange interior and design quirks are the downside. Starting to see a better case developing for EVs for me, when I consider the experiences others have described it does seem more feasible. Hopefully there will be a good Japanese option when I make the leap.

 

[zefarelly]

2 stroke for me.

23 two-stroke classic cars | Classic & Sports Car

www.classicandsportscar.com

 

[Flounce]

2 stroke for me.

23 two-stroke classic cars | Classic & Sports Car

www.classicandsportscar.com

Nice, my parents had an Auto Union 1000s two stroke exactly like this one. We went all over Europe in it, fabulous car. Taken over by VW and name changed to Audi, with the same four ring badge

 

[Fungus]

I've changed my mind after reading about the Renault 5 EV, with a few caveats. £23-35K new, reasonable size/mass with decent range ~200 miles and does V2G. Combine this with Octopus Go type tarrif and solar PV you can have a smaller battery but still sensibly arbitrage, that saves a lot on the home battery cost without loosing capacity. No sunroof, strange interior and design quirks are the downside. Starting to see a better case developing for EVs for me, when I consider the experiences others have described it does seem more feasible. Hopefully there will be a good Japanese option when I make the leap.

Yeah, the Renault 5 EV sounds like a leap forward. We have solar and a 13.5kwh home battery, but EV batteries are obviously bigger and potentially far more flexible with V2G. (And, presumably, vehicle-to-house?) Will be interesting to see how well it integrates with existing systems.

 

[chip]

Yeah, the Renault 5 EV sounds like a leap forward. We have solar and a 13.5kwh home battery, but EV batteries are obviously bigger and potentially far more flexible with V2G. (And, presumably, vehicle-to-house?) Will be interesting to see how well it integrates with existing systems.

I've been planning the home solar for a long time and will make that leap in the spring, a car like the R5 seems to be the point that would bring it all together, £13.5KW is a pricey battery, and has just appeared. I thought I would have a stronger resistance, but I realise I rarely do 200+ mile journeys nowadays. Now I have to get over the Renault phobia... Love the sound of your set up, I think you must be braver than me but probably where I would like to be. I shall now reread your posts for further wisdom before supper, thank you