How do you think Boris has handled it so far ?

[spring hall convert]

I know we are 300 posts in but has anyone defined what the measures of success of our response will be yet?

Deaths vs France & Germany? We had more time to prepare than both and are further away from the European epicentre so should do better (though convinced France's initial spread like Italy and Spain was exacerbated by their traditional greetings) so perhaps Germany is the best yardstick here.

6/12/18 months time % reduction in GDP vs France & Germany?

Got to be a combination of a health factor and and economic damage factor, weighted I would suggest toward the health aspect.

From the 10 seconds we got to look at the graph today, it looked like we are going to overtake France as well, which is some effort considering the head start they had.

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[sagaman]

Not having read the whole thread, I'm struggling to work out exactly what the Government are actually doing well?

They announced they weren't banning large gatherings and a day later Arteta was ill, football programme cancelled and then they ban gatherings.
They announced they weren't closing the schools and then Scotland and Wales did and we followed suit a day later.
They have seemingly failed to be proactive with regard to acquisition of ventilators.
They have seemingly failed to be proactive with regard to testing. Gove yesterday claiming there is a shortage which the industry subsequently dismissed.

Grant Chapps was challenged about the testing and the comparison to Germany and his intellectual comment was that there may be someone in Germany wondering why they weren't organising similar hospitals to the Nightingale? Well Grant, look at the death rate in Germany and compare it to ours.

And with regard to the delivery of PPE for frontline NHS staff, their comments have been an utter joke.

When challenged on something they misdirect and usually refer to things happening 'in the next few days'.

This in a nutshell

 

[Machiavelli]

Yes, one epidemiologist, two epidemiologists ..... fly away Peter, fly away Paul .................................

Sure, probably everyone can find an epidemiologist that will satisfy their personal take (or that of the paper they read). The Mail and The Express will broadly support what this government is doing, The Grauniad and The Independent will trawl under every stone to find an 'expert' who says the government are doing it all wrong, The Times will just bore the pants off everybody (as will The Independent). The Telegraph and The Mirror just don't matter any more, and The Sun will just want to find out who's shagging who (and whether they've got big tits).
The government will doubtless have taken advice (probably often conflicting advice) from loads of epidemiologists. The government's job has been - and is - to weigh up the conflicting advice (from the experts, not the papers) and make a balanced decision, hopefully disregarding the crackpots (of whom there will be many). Do you think there's some sort of magic wand alternative to that?

Oh and yes, there's probably a good reason why I've got a fair few thumbs.

You make the claim that no-one knew what to do about the virus back in early January, by saying this:

Quote Originally Posted by GT49er View Post
No we didn't. It had already happened in China before we knew anything about it. The WHO first recognised it on 31st. December; the first case in the UK occurred in late January - less than a month later. The first death was recorded 6 weeks further on. Some people's definition of 'months of warning' is seriously skewed by their own agenda.

I pointed out that an epidemiologist, advising the government, had urged them to take it seriously, and crank up activity (I could also have pointed out what WHO was saying then too, which was none too different, and has been consistent since its inception). You then respond with the above. I'll ignore the irrelevant detour through what different media outlets have said, and point out that there was a majority among the experts for a long while, which our government "dithered and delayed" for far too long before implementing.

 

[Bwian]

All of a sudden Johnson is saying testing is the way forward to beat this thing. Why the f**k has it taken until now? The WHO have been saying this for weeks but were ignored. Now Johnson is acting like this is a new revelation?

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[Bakero]

The media tide appears to be turning against the government. Today's front pages are uniformly critical.

 

[Baker lite]

https://twitter.com/johnnicholraf/status/1245621198731374594?s=21
When science collides with two bob hacks, there is only going to be one winner.


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[Baker lite]

The media tide appears to be turning against the government. Today's front pages are uniformly critical.

Follow the science.


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[Bold Seagull]

https://twitter.com/johnnicholraf/status/1245621198731374594?s=21
When science collides with two bob hacks, there is only going to be one winner.

Follow the science.

The science is fairly simple at this point. Test test test and test some more. Protect protect protect and protect some more those treating the infected. The government is failing to meet these fundamental scientific requirements.

 

[Baker lite]

The science is fairly simple at this point. Test test test and test some more. Protect protect protect and protect some more those treating the infected. The government is failing to meet these fundamental scientific requirements.

It is certainly very different set of criteria between nations, as I was debating on another thread, I believe Germany has tested circa 500k with 30k testing positive, are those 470k negative tests wasted if the those people get on the bus/train home and contract the virus?
It’s a decision I’m glad I’m not making, the Government is very much acting on the advice and direction of the leading boffins and leading contagion modelling minds We have. A thankless task.


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[Bold Seagull]

It is certainly very different set of criteria between nations, as I was debating on another thread, I believe Germany has tested circa 500k with 30k testing positive, are those 470k negative tests wasted if the those people get on the bus/train home and contract the virus?
It’s a decision I’m glad I’m not making, the Government is very much acting on the advice and direction of the leading boffins and leading contagion modelling minds We have. A thankless task.

Every single 1 of those negative tests can go into work, especially as a health care professional or key worker. That we have retired NHS doctors volunteering, and then dying because they're filling in gaps from colleagues having to self-isolate because there aren't enough tests to test frontline health care professionals – there is a serious dereliction of responsibility from government. Forget mass testing for a second, as an absolute minimum we should be able to test any NHS staff member with any kind of symptoms. Not being able to do that is a huge failure so far.

 

[Bakero]

Follow the science.


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Yeah, that's what the papers are suggesting too. Good advice.

 

[Baker lite]

Every single 1 of those negative tests can go into work, especially as a health care professional or key worker. That we have retired NHS doctors volunteering, and then dying because they're filling in gaps from colleagues having to self-isolate because there aren't enough tests to test frontline health care professionals – there is a serious dereliction of responsibility from government. Forget mass testing for a second, as an absolute minimum we should be able to test any NHS staff member with any kind of symptoms. Not being able to do that is a huge failure so far.

Fully agree, need to be testing health care workers as a priority, but how often do we test them?

 

[Baker lite]

Yeah, that's what the papers are suggesting too. Good advice.

Follow the scientific advice from the those best placed to offer it to the Government, I don’t consider the papers to be the best medical minds.

 

[spring hall convert]

All of a sudden Johnson is saying testing is the way forward to beat this thing. Why the f**k has it taken until now? The WHO have been saying this for weeks but were ignored. Now Johnson is acting like this is a new revelation?

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They've been saying testing will be ramped up for about 2 weeks now haven't they?

 

[sparkie]

Failing on testing, PPE, ventilators.

Not a good report card for Johnson so far.

 

[Baker lite]

Failing on testing, PPE, ventilators.

Not a good report card for Johnson so far.

When this terrible time is over and We have got through this as a nation, I think those that have attempted to make political gain out of this most dreadful of situations will never be forgiven, in My opinion they are the modern day Lord Haw Haw.


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[Raleigh Chopper]

When this terrible time is over and We have got through this as a nation, I think those that have attempted to make political gain out of this most dreadful of situations will never be forgiven, in My opinion they are the modern day Lord Haw Haw.


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What is making political gain about calling out the obvious failings and telling Johnson and co to get there finger out and stop all the blundering.
I have only seen 1 opposition minister being interviewed each day on TV. I have seen no political gain.
What is worse, calling them out or constant lies, dodging questions and generally failing while people are dying.
Oh, I forgot, it's your precious Tories.

 

[CheeseRolls]

When this terrible time is over and We have got through this as a nation, I think those that have attempted to make political gain out of this most dreadful of situations will never be forgiven, in My opinion they are the modern day Lord Haw Haw.


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This makes no sense at all. What political gain is there to make? We have a government with a large majority and a long term in front of them, they couldn't actually be more stable.

Anyway today I am totally behind our government with the lack of testing, complete lack of strategy around care homes, which will impact the most vulnerable and I am going to do my patriotic duty and not mention that there is a chronic shortage of body bags, to add to all of the protective equipment hospital trusts are unable to obtain.

 

[sparkie]

When this terrible time is over and We have got through this as a nation, I think those that have attempted to make political gain out of this most dreadful of situations will never be forgiven, in My opinion they are the modern day Lord Haw Haw.


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I'm more interested in the findings of the future Public Inquiry.

 

[Bwian]

They've been saying testing will be ramped up for about 2 weeks now haven't they?

Talk is cheap.

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