Homophobic Derby Fans banned

[pastafarian]

may i offer just a modicum time out on this story.
Until someone can post what these two were actually charged with,and what according to court transcripts they were punished for(exact wording etc) this subject will just be a merry go round of i heard it was this or that internet twaffle.
There is no way in hell it is possible to have a reasonable viewpoint on this without knowing facts about what these two did.

just saying

 

[danish seagull]

Absolute joke in my opinion. If they were aggressively shouting homophobic comments then fair do's but if it's the usual it's well over the top. Soon were be getting nicked for calling people a northern monkey or saying they live in a shit hole...

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Absolute joke in my opinion. If they were aggressively shouting homophobic comments then fair do's but if it's the usual it's well over the top. Soon were be getting nicked for calling people a northern monkey or saying they live in a shit hole...

How can you possibly declare it an 'absolute joke' and then admit you've no idea what the arrests were for? THAT is an absolute joke.

 

[Arthur]

Arthur & pretty pink fairy, you haven't got a clue what happened. Liz Costa was absolutely nothing to do with this, so why have a go at someone who doesn't use this forum to have a right of reply? You think it's ok to slag off someone who wasn't there? Stop hiding behind your anonymity to be bitchy about other fans.

Wooooosh! As DR and wellquickwoodie have pointed out I never said Costa was anything to do with this specific case about the Derby lads (although it wouldn't surprise me if she was stood outside the away end with a copper and clip board every game crying oooooohhhh ban this filth, will somebody think of the children!!). I was pointing out it was a campaign led by her and her merry bunch of freaks that produced the hysterical document that kick started this whole "he called me a woolly, I'm deeply offended" attitude that seems to be prevalent in a small number of BHA fans now.

You can claim Perry was doing anti homophobia yonks ago but so were every club in the land. I remember going to Millwall several years back and they'd started a scheme called something like Lions against homophobia. That is working well then!

The two Derby fans were arrested for a Public Order Act offence. They were behaving aggressively as well as the things that they shouted out. They would probably have been arrested for their behaviour but the obscenities were the icing on the cake for the police.
It was not in the stadium for chanting but outside where there were crowds of fans with children.

The blokes concerned admitted it and pleaded guilty. Why do some Brighton fans feel the need to stand up for them?

I'm not standing up for them but for football fans in general.

I'm going to make some educated assumptions about these two lads now so I may well be wrong but I feel I need to tell you that as allot of you will jump down my throat saying rubbish like "you don't know what happened". I don't and I've already admitted that.

I'm sure I read somewhere that these two lads were Derby season ticket holders. They've also got enough money to travel to an away game quite a way from their home so I think it's safe to say they are both within full time employment. These two lads have had to make two additional trips from their home to Brighton. I also expect they were held for a while so probably had to pay on top of what they had already paid to get home after the incident. So in transport alone I reckon it's cost them £150 each. There is a good chance that they may well have had stay over as well on at least one of those occasions. Lets say for arguments sake they did once. So another £75 between them.

First hearing when they pleaded guilty they didn't have any representation so that wouldn't have cost them anything. But when they were back down in the week they did. Now going back to my earlier assumption that they were both in full time employment then neither of them would have qualified for non contributory legal aid (threshold is something like £12k pa). If either of them are earning over roughly £22k they wouldn't have got any legal aid in the magistrates court. Given their age and where they live its probably unlikely they earn that sort of money so lets say they got legal aid but had to make contributions. This is worked out normally at 90% of your disposable income. Given their ages there is a good chance they still live at home so their disposable income is probably quite high. They may or may not have had separate representation, lets assume it was court appointed so the CPS decided to keep the costs down and had one guy representing them both. I'd still put their contributions at £200 each. So we're up to £775 now then add on the £387 they've paid in fines and court costs we're over £1.1k.

On top of that they were Derby season ticket holders. Lets say a Derby season ticket is £500 each. I'm sure they would have had conditional bail not allowing them to go to football since the incident so after 1 home game (I assume Derby were home first game?) they aren't allowed to use something that has cost them a grand between them.

Like I said a few assumption in there I could be way off the mark one way or another. Staying with the assumptions they shouted/sung something truly awful. From reading this thread and others it would seem wishing HIV/Aids on someone appears to be the most offensive so lets assume they shouted something along those lines. Now given that they have just been hit in the pocket for over £2k do you think next time they think about calling someone a bender or wishing HIV they might stop and think about it? I know I would.

Even if you take off the cost of their season tickets its still cost them a pretty penny. Do people still then really think they deserve a 3 year ban from football with all the restrictions that go along with it? If you answer yes to that question then you are a **** and you have no right to moan about shit atmospheres, over inflated ticket prices and players wages as you are equally involved in the sanitisation of this sport.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Wooooosh! As DR and wellquickwoodie have pointed out I never said Costa was anything to do with this specific case about the Derby lads (although it wouldn't surprise me if she was stood outside the away end with a copper and clip board every game crying oooooohhhh ban this filth, will somebody think of the children!!). I was pointing out it was a campaign led by her and her merry bunch of freaks that produced the hysterical document that kick started this whole "he called me a woolly, I'm deeply offended" attitude that seems to be prevalent in a small number of BHA fans now.

You can claim Perry was doing anti homophobia yonks ago but so were every club in the land. I remember going to Millwall several years back and they'd started a scheme called something like Lions against homophobia. That is working well then!



I'm not standing up for them but for football fans in general.

I'm going to make some educated assumptions about these two lads now so I may well be wrong but I feel I need to tell you that as allot of you will jump down my throat saying rubbish like "you don't know what happened". I don't and I've already admitted that.

I'm sure I read somewhere that these two lads were Derby season ticket holders. They've also got enough money to travel to an away game quite a way from their home so I think it's safe to say they are both within full time employment. These two lads have had to make two additional trips from their home to Brighton. I also expect they were held for a while so probably had to pay on top of what they had already paid to get home after the incident. So in transport alone I reckon it's cost them £150 each. There is a good chance that they may well have had stay over as well on at least one of those occasions. Lets say for arguments sake they did once. So another £75 between them.

First hearing when they pleaded guilty they didn't have any representation so that wouldn't have cost them anything. But when they were back down in the week they did. Now going back to my earlier assumption that they were both in full time employment then neither of them would have qualified for non contributory legal aid (threshold is something like £12k pa). If either of them are earning over roughly £22k they wouldn't have got any legal aid in the magistrates court. Given their age and where they live its probably unlikely they earn that sort of money so lets say they got legal aid but had to make contributions. This is worked out normally at 90% of your disposable income. Given their ages there is a good chance they still live at home so their disposable income is probably quite high. They may or may not have had separate representation, lets assume it was court appointed so the CPS decided to keep the costs down and had one guy representing them both. I'd still put their contributions at £200 each. So we're up to £775 now then add on the £387 they've paid in fines and court costs we're over £1.1k.

On top of that they were Derby season ticket holders. Lets say a Derby season ticket is £500 each. I'm sure they would have had conditional bail not allowing them to go to football since the incident so after 1 home game (I assume Derby were home first game?) they aren't allowed to use something that has cost them a grand between them.

Like I said a few assumption in there I could be way off the mark one way or another. Staying with the assumptions they shouted/sung something truly awful. From reading this thread and others it would seem wishing HIV/Aids on someone appears to be the most offensive so lets assume they shouted something along those lines. Now given that they have just been hit in the pocket for over £2k do you think next time they think about calling someone a bender or wishing HIV they might stop and think about it? I know I would.

Even if you take off the cost of their season tickets its still cost them a pretty penny. Do people still then really think they deserve a 3 year ban from football with all the restrictions that go along with it? If you answer yes to that question then you are a **** and you have no right to moan about shit atmospheres, over inflated ticket prices and players wages as you are equally involved in the sanitisation of this sport.

I don't normally agree with your posts but on this occasion I agree 100% ( based on your assumptions ). They should have been punished in the same way whether the offence took place at the football, the cricket, in a night club or even a random street.

 

[Creaky]

Even if you take off the cost of their season tickets its still cost them a pretty penny. Do people still then really think they deserve a 3 year ban from football with all the restrictions that go along with it? If you answer yes to that question then you are a **** and you have no right to moan about shit atmospheres, over inflated ticket prices and players wages as you are equally involved in the sanitisation of this sport.

I'm obviously a **** because I most certainly do think they deserve a 3 year ban from football.

I haven't moaned about 'shit atmospheres' but anyone who thinks a good atmosphere requires the attendance of those who have been convicted of criminal behaviour has a warped sense of what makes a good atmosphere!

I accept that clamping down on criminal behaviour at a public venue could reduce the number of those of a like mind attending but reality suggests that doing so has increased the number of law abiding fans. So taking part in discussions on ticket prices and player's wages is perfectly valid for those who think the penalty suffered by these two is justified.

If by "sanitisation of this sport" you mean removing the criminal element from the crowd then bring it on.

 

[mejonaNO12 aka riskit]

Absolute joke in my opinion. If they were aggressively shouting homophobic comments then fair do's but if it's the usual it's well over the top. Soon were be getting nicked for calling people a northern monkey or saying they live in a shit hole...

WOW.

"THIS IS A BLOODY DISGRACE......unless they did something bad...which they may have done....I don't know.....I can't really make a judgement....I'm sure it's fair actually."

 

[BBassic]

If sanitising the sport means that I can go and enjoy a game without being subject to vile abuse, above 'Does your boyfriend know...', then I'm all for sanitisation. There's no place for it anywhere else so should it be overlooked at the football?

 

[Arthur]

I'm obviously a **** because I most certainly do think they deserve a 3 year ban from football.

I haven't moaned about 'shit atmospheres' but anyone who thinks a good atmosphere requires the attendance of those who have been convicted of criminal behaviour has a warped sense of what makes a good atmosphere!

I accept that clamping down on criminal behaviour at a public venue could reduce the number of those of a like mind attending but reality suggests that doing so has increased the number of law abiding fans. So taking part in discussions on ticket prices and player's wages is perfectly valid for those who think the penalty suffered by these two is justified.

If by "sanitisation of this sport" you mean removing the criminal element from the crowd then bring it on.

If sanitising the sport means that I can go and enjoy a game without being subject to vile abuse, above 'Does your boyfriend know...', then I'm all for sanitisation. There's no place for it anywhere else so should it be overlooked at the football?

Do a search for Pikey and it returns 14 pages of results. I'd guess most of those were directed at Palace or Gillingham fans. As I've already pointed out on this thread it's a hate crime to call someone a pikey and has been since 2007 (long before people started wetting their pants about being called a bender). Should all of the people on here who have called Palace fans Pikeys get a 3 year ban from football?

I'd guess from your views then you'd say yes as we've got to stamp out this criminal element that goes to football!!

 

[Lord Bracknell]

Why should you have to explain (or try and avoid) to your eight-year old lad or nephew what HIV or AIDS is if that was sung repeatedly? Absolutely disgraceful.

Christ if your eight year old is making the correlation between someone singing homophobic chants and HIV/AIDS then he needs no explaining from you?!!

At the age of eight, my children were taught all about HIV and AIDS in their Church of England village primary school. "Don't Die of Ignorance" was the famous campaign slogan. Does this health education no longer happen?

 

[Creaky]

Do a search for Pikey and it returns 14 pages of results. I'd guess most of those were directed at Palace or Gillingham fans. As I've already pointed out on this thread it's a hate crime to call someone a pikey and has been since 2007 (long before people started wetting their pants about being called a bender). Should all of the people on here who have called Palace fans Pikeys get a 3 year ban from football?

I'd guess from your views then you'd say yes as we've got to stamp out this criminal element that goes to football!!

If they've done so at a football match then they should be aware that they are liable to arrest, conviction and being banned from future matches.

"A Liverpool FC fan has been given a four-year football banning order after he was found guilty of racially abusing rival Manchester United supporters and their club captain Patrice Evra"

"Gannon, a carpenter and joiner, repeatedly shouted "pikey", "pikey twats", "pikey *******s" and "pikey c****" at opposing fans throughout the game, the bench was told."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...sing-man-united-fans-and-captain-7876377.html

 

[Horton's halftime iceberg]

A lot of assumptions on here about the charges. The FA have good reason to combat offensive behaviour linked to football. Its good to see action backing up the educational and media campaigns.

http://www.kickitout.org/files/81c3a9dc-/KIO homophobia guidelines V2 final.pdf

[yt]1270cn0YxSo[/yt]

 

[Arthur]

If they've done so at a football match then they should be aware that they are liable to arrest, conviction and being banned from future matches.

"A Liverpool FC fan has been given a four-year football banning order after he was found guilty of racially abusing rival Manchester United supporters and their club captain Patrice Evra"

"Gannon, a carpenter and joiner, repeatedly shouted "pikey", "pikey twats", "pikey *******s" and "pikey c****" at opposing fans throughout the game, the bench was told."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...sing-man-united-fans-and-captain-7876377.html

Surely it worse. They've documented it for everyone to see!

Why stop there.....swearing can be deemed as a public order offence. Lets ban everyone who swears at football!

You might be rattling about at the Amex on your own soon. But on the plus side they probably won't run out pies before kick off.

See look I can be as ridiculous as the people comparing homophobic abuse to having your house burgled.

 

[BBassic]

Why stop there.....swearing can be deemed as a public order offence. Lets ban everyone who swears at football!

Swearing is actually a public order offence if an individual or group ‘uses threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour, or disorderly behaviour within the hearing or sight of a person likely to be caused harassment, alarm or distress thereby’

Of course it all depends on the sensitivity of the recipient.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

everytime there is a thread about homophobia you jump on it. I really have not read all the sh*t you have written this time about the subject, but i don't really need to.

You come across as a bit of a **nt which leads me to believe, in real life, you probably are.

you're talking shit yourself
regards
DR

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

this topic was never on the radar until a FEW bed wetter's couldn't cope with it, now it's being blown out of all proportions
regards
DR

 

[e77]

you're talking shit yourself
regards
DR

Pretty Pink Fairy - raising the tone of NSC since 2008.

For what it's worth, in the way of all large organisations, the authorities only seem capable of dealing with one thing at a time (e.g. Drink driving then speeding on the road) and homophobia is having it's turn.

I think some people need to realise we aren't in the 70s anymore and the (civilised) world has moved on. Your choice if to move with the times or moan about it on here, but it will happen regardless.

 

[narly101]

this topic was never on the radar until a FEW bed wetter's couldn't cope with it, now it's being blown out of all proportions
regards
DR

I must admit DR, your archaic backwards viewpoints always make me chuckle. Please do carry on.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

I must admit DR, your archaic backwards viewpoints always make me chuckle. Please do carry on.

thanks for your kind words Sir ,trust me there's plenty more in the ground with my views
regards
DR

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Pretty Pink Fairy - raising the tone of NSC since 2008.

For what it's worth, in the way of all large organisations, the authorities only seem capable of dealing with one thing at a time (e.g. Drink driving then speeding on the road) and homophobia is having it's turn.

I think some people need to realise we aren't in the 70s anymore and the (civilised) world has moved on. Your choice if to move with the times or moan about it on here, but it will happen regardless.

i'm not complaining though, i'm just putting an alternative edge on things, STICK AND STONES WILL BREAK MY BONES BUT NAMES WILL NEVER HURT ME ,that's how i was brought up
regards
DR