Hillsborough prosecutions

[Albion 4ever]

So you saying that the cheif wanted 96 people dead when he decided to let them in?He took a split decision to open the gates and to be frank there could have been 1000 or more ticketless fans barging through.If the fences wearnt there things would be completely different.

IT just doesn't seem right to blame the police for everything and the pressure to punish someone or someone's has been immense.

To me it's a terrible terrible tragedy that could have happened numerous times in those days....

But there wasn't 1000 or more ticketless fans. How difficult is it to understand?
They were counted in and the upper limit was less than 50 above the capacity.

 

[neilbard]

But there wasn't 1000 or more ticketless fans. How difficult is it to understand?
They were counted in and the upper limit was less than 50 above the capacity.

I think these figures were all estimates especially with the opening of Gate C?

 

[Albion 4ever]

In addition to my post above, it was clear that pens 3&4 were full by 2:30pm. Having opened the gates the tunnel to the central pens should have been shut off as in previous years. This basic lack of instruction was the biggest issue.

 

[The Large One]

So you saying that the cheif wanted 96 people dead when he decided to let them in?He took a split decision to open the gates and to be frank there could have been 1000 or more ticketless fans barging through.If the fences wearnt there things would be completely different.

IT just doesn't seem right to blame the police for everything and the pressure to punish someone or someone's has been immense.

To me it's a terrible terrible tragedy that could have happened numerous times in those days....

Who gave you the right to re-write history to suit your own agenda?

What you're honking on about there has nothing to do with the reality of what happened. So why post it?

 

[neilbard]

In addition to my post above, it was clear that pens 3&4 were full by 2:30pm. Having opened the gates the tunnel to the central pens should have been shut off as in previous years. This basic lack of instruction was the biggest issue.

This is indisputable.............

 

[Bold Seagull]

So you saying that the cheif wanted 96 people dead when he decided to let them in?He took a split decision to open the gates and to be frank there could have been 1000 or more ticketless fans barging through.If the fences wearnt there things would be completely different.

IT just doesn't seem right to blame the police for everything and the pressure to punish someone or someone's has been immense.

To me it's a terrible terrible tragedy that could have happened numerous times in those days....

I used the word 'authorities' and not specifically 'police' for a reason - hope that clears that up for you.

 

[Albion 4ever]

I think these figures were all estimates especially with the opening of Gate C?

See post 82. Counted in using the turnstile counter and then cross referenced with cctv.

When they opened gate C they used the cctv to continue the counting. Whilst I accept it would not be totally accurate they would not be too far out, certainly not a 1000.

 

[Mental Lental]

This thread has highlighted another denizen of NSC that is not worthy of having his opinion listened to or respected.

Welcome to my ignore list Beach Seagull. You're in good company.

 

[clapham_gull]

So you saying that the cheif wanted 96 people dead when he decided to let them in?He took a split decision to open the gates and to be frank there could have been 1000 or more ticketless fans barging through.If the fences wearnt there things would be completely different.

IT just doesn't seem right to blame the police for everything and the pressure to punish someone or someone's has been immense.

To me it's a terrible terrible tragedy that could have happened numerous times in those days....

I don't blame anyone for using the "ticketless fans" argument - because it has become part of the myth as has "drunk fans".

However what is particularly interesting about both is that they were disproved very very early on if you read the Taylor Report.

The Health and Safety executive went through hours and hours of CCTV footage counting every fan who went in and compared it against ticket sales.

Even if there were "ticketless" fans - others must have not turned up and the stand was apparently under capacity.

Even if the Police had that fear it was completely unfounded and proved after the event to be wrong.

 

[clapham_gull]

Am neither ignorant or a Sun reader. Just dared to express an opinion. Stand by what i said, many liverpool fans would've been late / drunk / ticketless.

It is however a completely uneducated one based on obviously not reading the numerous investigations even at the time.

 

[LlcoolJ]

So you saying that the cheif wanted 96 people dead when he decided to let them in?

No, that would me murder. He's been charged with manslaughter.

He took a split decision to open the gates and to be frank there could have been 1000 or more ticketless fans barging through.

It was weeks/days/hours of mismanagement not just one decision. Stop with the ticketless fans thing as you're making yourself look REALLY stupid.

If the fences wearnt there things would be completely different.

If there hadn't been an iceberg then the Titanic wouldn't have sunk.

You'll not understand this analogy so I'll point out that the fences being there was totally wrong but it was disregard for life and ineptitude that killed people, like with the Titanic.

IT just doesn't seem right to blame the police for everything and the pressure to punish someone or someone's has been immense.

Yeah that's because it was their fault. And they covered it up. And they blamed the victims. Imagine if it was your child who died. Because of the police and the incompetence and attitude of all authorities dealing with football fans at the time. And then they blamed you.

To me it's a terrible terrible tragedy that could have happened numerous times in those days....

It could, and it f#cking did. Because of the policing of the match. This is FACT!

You're a disgrace and I feel ashamed that the likes of you and Beach Dickhead are supporters of the same club as me.

Probably ****ed up the quotes as I'm on my phone but I don't really care at this point.

 

[Mental Lental]

No, that would me murder. He's been charged with manslaughter.




It was weeks/days/hours of mismanagement not just one decision. Stop with the ticketless fans thing as you're making yourself look REALLY stupid.



If there hadn't been an iceberg then the Titanic wouldn't have sunk.

You'll not understand this analogy so I'll point out that the fences being there was totally wrong but it was disregard for life and ineptitude that killed people, like with the Titanic.





Yeah that's because it was their fault. And they covered it up. And they blamed the victims. Imagine if it was your child who died. Because of the police and the incompetence and attitude of all authorities dealing with football fans at the time. And then they blamed you.




It could, and it f#cking did. Because of the policing of the match. This is FACT!

You're a disgrace and I feel ashamed that the likes of you and Beach Dickhead are supporters of the same club as me.

Probably ****ed up the quotes as I'm on my phone but I don't really care at this point.

Sir Albion is already on my ignore list for past misdemeanours. Which made it quite funny reading your responses to his hidden quotes. It's quite a fun game actually, guessing what turgid shite the thickos are posting based on the responses of the more cerebral members of NSC.

 

[Lenny Rider]

Bozza rightly blocks any comment on threads on NSC with potential legal ramifications, Poyet amongst others and now unfortunately Dodge, trawling through these 18 pages of 'heated debate' as previously pointed out how are they going to swear in a 12 person jury who are supposed to have no pre conceived opinions about the case?
And clearly the defence lawyers will argue that given the 'trial by media/internet' makes a perceived 'fair trial' all but impossible.

This is both a disgrace and a tragedy, I wonder how history will report this in 100 years time?

 

[chaileyjem]

Because I live in the real world and I know that football fans will turn up drunk and as late as they can.

edited.

 

[Deleted User X18H]

Am neither ignorant or a Sun reader. Just dared to express an opinion. Stand by what i said, many liverpool fans would've been late / drunk / ticketless.

The proximate cause of Hillsbrough can be traced to an incident that occurred in October 1988. An incident that caused Chief Superintendent Brian Mole, of Hammerton Road Police Station to lose his job. And move sideways to Barnsley.Hammerton Road traditionally provided the match commander for large events at Hillsbrough. In 1988 Mole, through his experience, had in place measures, such as calming methods, where tickets were checked and fans directed around half a mile from the ground. (Similar to the last game at the Goldstone) Duckenfield who took over from Mole as Chief Super and subsequently match commander, less than two months before the game. Refused to acknowledge, let alone implement what he considered Moles time wasting and man power draining methods.
Yes, fans turned up late and in drink (a northern phrase) but that didn't contribute to the disaster. Lack of organisation, inexperience and refusal to accept responsibility did. Dukenfield thought the stewards were in charge of his vital responsibilities.
Why? Because he refused to speak with Mole or assess Mole plans for match command.
People didn't die in the tunnel. Nor was there a surge. Fans (like us) were asphyxiated were they stood.

God bless them.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

The proximate cause of Hillsbrough can be traced to an incident that occurred in October 1988. An incident that caused Chief Superintendent Brian Mole, of Hammerton Road Police Station to lose his job. And move sideways to Barnsley.Hammerton Road traditionally provided the match commander for large events at Hillsbrough. In 1988 Mole, through his experience, had in place measures, such as calming methods, where tickets were checked and fans directed around half a mile from the ground. (Similar to the last game at the Goldstone) Duckenfield who took over from Mole as Chief Super and subsequently match commander, less than two months before the game. Refused to acknowledge, let alone implement what he considered Moles time wasting and man power draining methods.
Yes, fans turned up late and in drink (a northern phrase) but that didn't contribute to the disaster. Lack of organisation, inexperience and refusal to accept responsibility did. Dukenfield thought the stewards were in charge of his vital responsibilities.
Why? Because he refused to speak with Mole or assess Mole plans for match command.
People didn't die in the tunnel. Nor was there a surge. Fans (like us) were asphyxiated were they stood.

God bless them.

They did. Here is the inquest report of two of them.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-34379976

 

[Tooting Gull]

Bozza rightly blocks any comment on threads on NSC with potential legal ramifications, Poyet amongst others and now unfortunately Dodge, trawling through these 18 pages of 'heated debate' as previously pointed out how are they going to swear in a 12 person jury who are supposed to have no pre conceived opinions about the case?
And clearly the defence lawyers will argue that given the 'trial by media/internet' makes a perceived 'fair trial' all but impossible.

This is both a disgrace and a tragedy, I wonder how history will report this in 100 years time?

The 'fair trial' thing is going to be relevant in these cases. But you also can't have a jury full of people who have never heard about this case, because unless they have lived on the moon or are 'less than observant', they will have. Apart from maybe not having anyone linked to the victims/campaign, or serving/former police officers (which is fraught with difficulty in all trials), it's going to be hard to reasonably rule anyone else out from a jury unless they walk in screaming 'Jail The Pigs'. Because if you eliminate everyone who thinks, a bit like this thread, that either a) these people have serious questions to answer, or b) people who still seem to think drunk ticketless fans were to blame, there is virtually no one left.

 

[rippleman]

So he counted them all did he?
If that's the case I believe the coroner
Everyone with half a brain knows that thousands upon thousands of ticketless fans travelled to big matches back then....We all did it !!!

You win the coroner counted all

You gotta stop reading the Sun fella. All it is doing is making you look remarkably stupid, ignorant and a weeny bit pathetic.

 

[rippleman]

I did think that the one thing that would have united all NSC members would be Justice for the 96 unlawfully killed at Hillsborough.

Sadly there are clearly some who believed the lies of the police and the Sun, and still do to this day despite the over-riding evidence to the contrary. Can we expect to see the same trolls starting threads about the sun going around the earth or the earth being flat? Idiots.

 

[aolstudios]

Who gave you the right to re-write history to suit your own agenda?

What you're honking on about there has nothing to do with the reality of what happened. So why post it?

Again & again & again...
It's just a ****ing lie & SA is a ****ing liar.
No idea why it's so important to him