Hillsborough prosecutions

[Thunder Bolt]

Didn't say i did. I never said i 'blame' the Liverpool fans for what happened, i said wrong to 'totally exenorate' them. Knowing the culture of football fans (especially pre 90's one's) many would've turned up as close to kick off as they possibly could, drunk and some without tickets, wanting to be in the stadium ready for k/o. Hence the chaotic scenes outside the ground.

You don't even know that there was an accident on the motorway which caused a lot of the fans to arrive late!!

 

[Beach Seagull]

Seriously, grow up.

You've come on here to 'express an opinion' which is based on lies, and then grizzle when you get called out and shown up. You haven't 'disagreed' with anyone, you've argued with facts, and you're continuing to do so.

Considering what you're posting, 'pitiable, pathetic, and devoid of any intelligence' is hardly an insult.

Not once have i 'grizzled.' Just pointed out you resorted to personal insults......as I've seen you do on here before when other posters have disagreed with you.

 

[Carrot Cruncher]

Well observed, yes indeed its a chat forum.

Indeed it is, so chat away with the question asked of what you would do now?

 

[The Large One]

Not once have i 'grizzled.' Just pointed out you resorted to personal insults......as I've seen you do on here before when other posters have disagreed with you.

Oh, you're grizzling, alright.

I haven't insulted you. You must be one hell of a snowflake to think that 'pitiable, pathetic, and devoid of any intelligence' is, in this context, an insult.

Meanwhile, do continue to honk your meaningless twaddle based on your knowledge of pre-90s football culture; a knowledge clearly no-one else has seeing as you've unilaterally decided that the Liverpool fans shouldn't be exonerated, while all the carefully-gathered, inspected and considered evidence show that they should.

 

[Beach Seagull]

And that has precisely WHAT to do with what happened here?

Oh yeah, nothing. Which has been proved by a judge-led inquiry, an independent inquiry, and an inquest.

Please, if you have first-hand, peer-tested evidence which shows that 'football fans will turn up drunk and as late as they can' was the key factor in this disaster, thereby nullifying the hundreds of thousands of pages of evidence collected over the past quarter of a century, let us know. Over to you...

Didn't say it was the 'key factor.' But thousands descending on a confined area, (I would guess) many under the influence of drink and (I would guess) some without tickets is a recipe for disaster.

 

[Carrot Cruncher]

Whilst I have massive sympathy for those who lost their lives and their loved one's, to totally exonerate Liverpool fans of any blame on the day is extremely misguided. Can they all honestly say they turned up in plenty of time for kick off, stone cold sober and all in possession of tickets? That I very much doubt. The Police did not cover themselves in glory and clearly panicked, hence opening the gates to the Leppings Lane end, the fault does not rest entirely with the Police. It was a disaster waiting to happen, some blame should be apportioned to all participants. Lessons have been learnt, changes implemented. No sense or fairness in going after blood now.

I think your final sentence is the weirdest of the lot. What's unfair about bringing charges?

 

[lawros left foot]

Seeing the news tonight, it was reported that 23 individuals and organisations were investigated by the Dpp, in regards to culpability, if the 6 individuals are found guilty, can more prosecutions be brought?

 

[The Large One]

Didn't say it was the 'key factor.' But thousands descending on a confined area, (I would guess) many under the influence of drink and (I would guess) some without tickets is a recipe for disaster.

The 'confined area' if managed properly, was not a key factor - it was a contributing factor. However, seeing as the area wasn't managed properly, that's the key issue, as confirmed by Taylor, the HIP and the Inquest.

What evidence do you have that the crowd was 'under the influence of drink' above and beyond your knowledge of pre-90s football culture? Why do you feel it was a deciding factor when Taylor, the HIP and the Inquest all decided - having reviews all of the evidence - that it wasn't?

Taylor, the HIP and the Inquest all noted that ticketlessness was not an issue - the numbers in the vicinity matched the numbers of tickets sold - a matter already dealt with earlier in this thread. No matter how many times you get told this, it's just completely washing over you, isn't it?

 

[lawros left foot]

Didn't say it was the 'key factor.' But thousands descending on a confined area, (I would guess) many under the influence of drink and (I would guess) some without tickets is a recipe for disaster.

Is your whole opinion based on guesswork? No actual facts, at all?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Didn't say it was the 'key factor.' But thousands descending on a confined area, (I would guess) many under the influence of drink and (I would guess) some without tickets is a recipe for disaster.

No it isn't. Fans turn up drunk every week in the season. There are confined areas in some of the older grounds like Watford and QPR.
Why aren't there deaths every week?

Why did the jury and the Coroner's court decide that the fans were unlawfully killed. I'll say it again, UNLAWFULLY KILLED.

Why have CPS lawyers decided that at least one of the charges is Manslaughter?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Not once have i 'grizzled.' Just pointed out you resorted to personal insults......as I've seen you do on here before when other posters have disagreed with you.

No, he said your comment was pitiable, pathetic, and devoid of any intelligence, not you. There is a difference.

 

[Beach Seagull]

No it isn't. Fans turn up drunk every week in the season. There are confined areas in some of the older grounds like Watford and QPR.
Why aren't there deaths every week?

Why did the jury and the Coroner's court decide that the fans were unlawfully killed. I'll say it again, UNLAWFULLY KILLED.

Why have CPS lawyers decided that at least one of the charges is Manslaughter?

Disasters have happened at football grounds before. Like i said and i stand by what i said to 'totally exenorate' the liverpool fans of any blame is misguided. Football fans will by nature often turn up late and drunk.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Disasters have happened at football grounds before. Like i said and i stand by what i said to 'totally exenorate' the liverpool fans of any blame is misguided. Football fans will by nature often turn up late and drunk.

There haven't been disasters since. Hillsborough was a unique situation where the fans were unlawfully killed. They were directed to the centre pens, when the two side pens were empty. It wasn't the fans who caused, that but police and stewards who hadn't got a clue what they were doing.

 

[Leekbrookgull]

If not seen before take a look. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKzKcbOQLq4

 

[The Large One]

Disasters have happened at football grounds before. Like i said and i stand by what i said to 'totally exenorate' the liverpool fans of any blame is misguided. Football fans will by nature often turn up late and drunk.

Neither of which had any bearing on the disaster. Nor did any perceived ticketlessness.

So to not exonerate them isn't just misguided - it's plain wrong.

 

[Mackenzie]

I think that Beach Seagull is owed a bit of gratitude, he has played the role of "ignorant Sun reader" to a tee and allowed a healthy discourse to ensue. I feel educated.

Well done all.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

I assume that everyone who has posted on this thread is familiar with all the contents of this

https://hillsboroughinquests.independent.gov.uk/

 

[Beach Seagull]

I think that Beach Seagull is owed a bit of gratitude, he has played the role of "ignorant Sun reader" to a tee and allowed a healthy discourse to ensue. I feel educated.

Well done all.

Am neither ignorant or a Sun reader. Just dared to express an opinion. Stand by what i said, many liverpool fans would've been late / drunk / ticketless.

 

[El Presidente]

Am neither ignorant or a Sun reader. Just dared to express an opinion. Stand by what i said, many liverpool fans would've been late / drunk / ticketless.

Like many Manchester United, Chelsea, Forest, West Ham, Brighton, Palace and Arsenal fans too at an FA Cup Semi Final.

But that doesn't mean that 96 of them should have failed to go home that afternoon.

 

[neilbard]

Am neither ignorant or a Sun reader. Just dared to express an opinion. Stand by what i said, many liverpool fans would've been late / drunk / ticketless.

Like many Manchester United, Chelsea, Forest, West Ham, Brighton, Palace and Arsenal fans too at an FA Cup Semi Final.

But that doesn't mean that 96 of them should have failed to go home that afternoon.

They still turn up pissed to games now, nothing has changed in that respect, but the stadia is much safer now thank god!