Help required - I am in very serious danger of voting Tory next year.

[Brovion]

London Irish makes a couple of good points, one of which is the Politics is NOT about putting a cross on a bit of paper once every four or five years. It's a daily ongoing struggle, it's about organising and taking control, it's about education and awareness. DON'T just sit back passively and say "well they're all w*nkers so what's the point?", do something about it; go on a protest, join a union, write letters, emails etc. You CAN make a difference!

 

[Uncle Spielberg]

Only kiding !.

 

[goldstone]

I'm not suggesting that you should vote Conservative, but I strongly recommend that you DO NOT vote labour. There will be some other options to the Labour candidate.

Reasons for not voting Labour:

1. Don't even think of voting for that smug bastard Tony Blair.

2. Labour/Blair are responsible for the Iraq mess and the deaths of innocent people. We have no business being there.

3. How could any intelligent individual even think of voting for a party with the word "Labour" in it?

4. How could you even consider for one moment voting for a government that has John Prescott as Deputy Prime Minister?

5. Remember WMD and the 45 minute warning.

That should be quite enough.

 

[goldstone]

The Lib Dems also are as anti-trade union as most mainstream Tories.

Well, that's all the reason we need then to vote Lib Dem or Tory. Simple really.

 

[Meade's Ball]

MB you are saying that your vote is too valuable to use on weak candidates. It is worth absolutely nothing if not used. If people don't want to vote, lets all have a nice dictatorship then shall we?

I don't think it is too much to get off our arses once every 4 years to vote.

I get off my arse and spoil my ballot, therefore my vote is cast.

I go on demonstrations regularly throughout the year, where i believe my politics are better expressed. Having to support someone i don't agree with doesn't sound like a democracy to me.

 

[Seagull's Return]

Only kiding !.

 

[Barnet Seagull]

Er... I did post something here.

but now it's gone.

cos I'm hungover and a muppet.

 

[Locky]

.I have never voted Labour (neither New or Old) and at present have no intention of ever doing so.

If it hadn't been for Maggie, Tony Blair would not be in the strong position he finds himself regarding the Unions.

When she went to war with the Miners Unions as well as just about every other Union, we were constantly held to ransom every time they felt the need for more money, (tax payers money i might add)
Our economy was suffering big time with public money being thrown in to keep state owned companies solvent.

Maggie decided that pouring all this money in was a complete waste of time, and the way forward was to privatise.
You only have to look to see the choices you now have when buying your Electricity or Gas supplies...even your telephone.

When Blair took over he did indeed inherit a growing economy, he told us he would not raise taxes.........although he has made 67 stealth tax increases.
he has indeed poured more money into the Health system, but in doing so has achieved nothing.........its all gone the usual (labour)way in red tape and nothing has really got to the front line as in equipment, Nurses and Doctors.

Blair’s stance on Europe really worries me, he seems to have no regard for the opinion of the British public, and seems hell bent on us joining.
We are doing Ok as we are ....the British are an Island race and will never integrate into a federal European state.......I for one do not want some unelected foreign minister telling me how much tax I must pay, or who we will go to war with. We have done Ok for the last 1000 years on our own so let’s keep it that way.

As far as Iraq is concerned, I can only assume that Mr Blair was misinformed, and that he went in with the US for all the right reasons.
I was pleased when Saddam was removed from power, although the present situation is worrying.

All governments make mistakes..........none of us are perfect...........Maggie’s mistake was the Poll tax.............Majors was the ERM.....Blair’s was getting elected


Tory for me.

 

[Row Z Creased Shirt]

This is a massive dilemma for a lot of people and I too am wresting with my conscience over my vote.

I absolutely loathe Blair, I'm afraid the war has completely soured me against the labour party. Also their weak-willed pandering to right wing bigots over immigration and the populist dead end that is ID cards, to quote patrick McGhohan (sp?) "I am not a number, I am a free man!"

Also their inability to do anything about the transport infrastructure (they've not even tried!)

However, this has to be balanced alongside record public service investments which is having an impact despite the doom mongerig of lazy right whingers who'd blame the weather on the govt if they could. The minimum wage, record low unemployment, low interest rates ( I can remember 20per cent rates too).

Amidst all of this my local MP david lepper disagreed with Blair on all the things that i did, he voted against the war, top up fees, hunting etc, So I find that even though the party my have me down on many issues, my MP didn't. So I shall be casting my vote for the candidate who represents my views rather than the government which does not.


And for those who say voting doesn't matter, it bloody mattered in the US last time. if they could count properly we wouldn't be at war in Iraq today.
People die for the right to vote every day all over the world, I think we insult them and those that died for us by not participating in the democratic process. If you do not want to vote for anyone, go and spoil your ballot write none of the above or something (whic I think should be an option). because at least then your protest will be noticed.

 

[Mr C]

An underlying problem with society which has been made worse by Labour is a general lack of responsibility and respect.

People nowadays tend to shirk their responsibilties and don't take responsibility for their actions. If you were to drive into someone's car in a car park and no-one else was around, would you just drive off? Most people would. That sucks. I know it's a trivial example, but it's just a sympton of the general attitude in this country at the moment.

No I'm not having a go cos someone did that to me, but the "sod everyone else I'm out for just me" way of thinking definitey seems to have got worse recently. It is hard to put into words, but if people had more control over their lives (money, choice etc), I think they might be more willing to think about their actions, consider what they're doing.

 

[Mr C]

Also their weak-willed pandering to right wing bigots over immigration and the populist dead end that is ID cards

However, this has to be balanced alongside record public service investments which is having an impact despite the doom mongerig of lazy right whingers who'd blame the weather on the govt if they could. The minimum wage, record low unemployment, low interest rates ( I can remember 20per cent rates too).

Amidst all of this my local MP david lepper disagreed with Blair on all the things that i did, he voted against the war, top up fees, hunting etc, So I find that even though the party my have me down on many issues, my MP didn't. So I shall be casting my vote for the candidate who represents my views rather than the government which does not.
[/B]

Right wing bigots over immigration and the dead end idea of ID cards? Well, I don't think it's necessarily right-wing to be angry because economic migrants are arriving with no intention of paying their way or working, receiving benefits and generally breakiing the rules while everyone else waits in line. That sounds like a perfectly normal reaction to me. And what's wrong with ID cards ? Got something to hide?

And as for the economy - they inherited it from the Conservatives and Brown can take very little credit (if any) for it. Oh apart from the countless stifling business regulations he's introduced of course.

You say you'll vote for the individual MP rather than the party they stand for? Fine, but you're still voting for the party....voting Lepper will still be a vote for Labour!! You can't separate them if they belong to a party!

 

[Barnet Seagull]

An underlying problem with society which has been made worse by Labour is a general lack of responsibility and respect.

People nowadays tend to shirk their responsibilties and don't take responsibility for their actions. If you were to drive into someone's car in a car park and no-one else was around, would you just drive off? Most people would. That sucks. I know it's a trivial example, but it's just a sympton of the general attitude in this country at the moment.

No I'm not having a go cos someone did that to me, but the "sod everyone else I'm out for just me" way of thinking definitey seems to have got worse recently. It is hard to put into words, but if people had more control over their lives (money, choice etc), I think they might be more willing to think about their actions, consider what they're doing.

I think everyone agrees with this to an extent, but I would argue that it's not directly attributable to the Labour government.

I 'd like to see any government encourage a more community focused education. The community very seldom gives anything to education and expects a huge amount from it. Maybe some tax concessions to companies which aid schools, or spend time offering work experience or training would address this inbalance.

 

[Hungry Joe.]

Spoil your ballot paper, it's the only sensible democratic option. I'm going to write "Palace are shit" all over mine.

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

cos I'm hungover and a muppet.

Vote for Barnet - he tells the truth.





See Simster - once a muppet always a muppet. He was always one of ours.

 

[Row Z Creased Shirt]

Right wing bigots over immigration and the dead end idea of ID cards? Well, I don't think it's necessarily right-wing to be angry because economic migrants are arriving with no intention of paying their way or working, receiving benefits and generally breakiing the rules while everyone else waits in line. That sounds like a perfectly normal reaction to me. And what's wrong with ID cards ? Got something to hide?

You say you'll vote for the individual MP rather than the party they stand for? Fine, but you're still voting for the party....voting Lepper will still be a vote for Labour!! You can't separate them if they belong to a party!

Mr C you can continue to swallow the myths over immigration of you want to, the whole point of economic migrants is that they come here to work and do the shitty jobs that some of homegrown idle scroungers can't be arsed to do. Even Blair and Blunkett acknowledge that migrants contribute more to the economy than they take out. I just fail to see where wanting to have better life for yourself should make you a criminal.

Also ID cards, do I have something to hide, no I dont, and as such I stand to lose everything if there is a f*** up. Why don't we all just get barcoded and have electronic tags strapped to our ankles. FFS this is the 21st century, and a free country, yet I could end up having to produce a card to prove who I am, and possibly suffer a penalty if I do not. That sounds like a fine upstanding defintion of freedom to me, and I thought it was just the lefties who hankered after the good old days of Stalinism, jeez.

As for separating the MP from the party, I could give you that one. it would stick in my craw to vote for the party led by Bliar, but if the person I put in parliament is prepared to argue the viewpoints that I agree with, then at least my voice will be heard in some way. If it was a party line toeing lacky standing Brighton Pav I would have no hestitation in taking my vote elsewhere, but he isn't. And if I did withdraw my vote then I am afraid the tories would win the seat, because most people in this country are incapable of looking beyond the two main parties for an alternative, and I feel of the two governments that are on offer, a labour one would still infinitely more acceptable than a tory one.

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

I don't think it is Labour that people are pissed off about. London Irish is correct that they have made strides in investing in services, and it is always going to be the case for any government thay could do more.

What pisses me off is Iraq. Tell us why we went in please. Until Blair does that, Labour will not be getting my vote.

In fact Blair needs to step aside. He has lost his grip, lost the plot, and could well lose his mandate.

 

[ripper]

OK, so the Iraq situation is a mess, but does anyone think that we wouldn't have gone to war if the Tories were in power ?

Highly unlikely I would say. The Iraq situation, I think is the main reason for peoples disliking of Blair.

From a party ethics point of view its got to be Labour over the Tories any time as the Tories are out for themselves. Tax cuts will equal worse public services etc.

People have already mentioned the miners. What about the Poll Tax debacle and Criminal Justice Act.

Labour might not be having the best time at the moment but as far as I am concerned they are the lesser of two evils, because at the end of the day they have more interest in the working people of Britain.

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

OK, so the Iraq situation is a mess, but does anyone think that we wouldn't have gone to war if the Tories were in power ?

It is possible, if not likely we would. A tory government acting as a poodle to a discredited republican president would be nothing new.

But a labour prime minister ?

 

[Spiros]

Highly unlikely I would say. The Iraq situation, I think is the main reason for peoples disliking of Blair.

Funnily enough, although I have plenty of other reasons for disliking Blair, I actually admire him in that he took a stance and kept to it, despite knowing that it would not be popular. During the 7 years of his leadership this seems the only 'belief' he has stuck to.

From a party ethics point of view its got to be Labour over the Tories any time as the Tories are out for themselves. Tax cuts will equal worse public services etc. .

And Labour aren't?!? How many houses has 2 jags got? What about the likes of Mandelson using their influence to get dodgy mortgages? Hinduja brothers anyone? The vast majority of politicians of ALL SIDES are doing it for themselves first - anyone who believes otherwise is naive in the extreme

People have already mentioned the miners. What about the Poll Tax debacle and Criminal Justice Act. .

The miners were taken out on strike without a ballot by a man who wanted to bring down a democratically elected goverment for his own ends. Blame Scargill, not Thatcher. The poll tax showed that the Tories were at least prepared to admit that they got it wrong and try to put it right. Bliar would just continue to insist that he was right all along.

Labour might not be having the best time at the moment but as far as I am concerned they are the lesser of two evils, because at the end of the day they have more interest in the working people of Britain.

The Labour party of the 1970s might have done but this is 2004. This is a 'Labour' party that wants students to pay tuition fees at university and aims it taxes to hit the middle range of working people the hardest - the richest still get off lightly. They talk left wing and act right wing. Even if I liked the policies in their manifesto (which I don't) I still wouldn't vote for them because they say one thing and do the opposite.

 

[Locky]

Funnily enough, although I have plenty of other reasons for disliking Blair, I actually admire him in that he took a stance and kept to it, despite knowing that it would not be popular. During the 7 years of his leadership this seems the only 'belief' he has stuck to.

And Labour aren't?!? How many houses has 2 jags got? What about the likes of Mandelson using their influence to get dodgy mortgages? Hinduja brothers anyone? The vast majority of politicians of ALL SIDES are doing it for themselves first - anyone who believes otherwise is naive in the extreme

The miners were taken out on strike without a ballot by a man who wanted to bring down a democratically elected goverment for his own ends. Blame Scargill, not Thatcher. The poll tax showed that the Tories were at least prepared to admit that they got it wrong and try to put it right. Bliar would just continue to insist that he was right all along.

The Labour party of the 1970s might have done but this is 2004. This is a 'Labour' party that wants students to pay tuition fees at university and aims it taxes to hit the middle range of working people the hardest - the richest still get off lightly. They talk left wing and act right wing. Even if I liked the policies in their manifesto (which I don't) I still wouldn't vote for them because they say one thing and do the opposite.