skipper734
Registered ruffian
A lot of this appears to make no sense. Would seem that the stewards are just as culpable as any others involved. 
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Hamilton and McClaren stripped of points
- Thread starter Icy Gull
- Start date
As an outsider I have actually followed this story as I find I'm morbidly fascinated with a 'sport' that has such a mess of arcane rules and regulations that the result of a procession of cars (sometimes inaccurately called a 'race') is still in doubt days or even weeks after the event.
As a neutral it seems to me that Hamilton is a best a slightly dishonest competitor seeking to gain an advantage by not revealing what had been said in the radio conversation and thus allowing Trulli to be incorrectly penalised. At worst he's a lying cheat who I hope never 'wins' another procession.
As a neutral it seems to me that Hamilton is a best a slightly dishonest competitor seeking to gain an advantage by not revealing what had been said in the radio conversation and thus allowing Trulli to be incorrectly penalised. At worst he's a lying cheat who I hope never 'wins' another procession.
Buffalo Seagull
Active member
BBC SPORT | Motorsport | Formula 1 | Hamilton row claims team veteran
Reading that it sounds as though they went out of their way to mislead the stewards, in which case I think the punishment is justified
Easy 10
Brain dead MUG SHEEP
So let me get this straight...
During the safety car, Trulli ran wide, causing Hamilton to unavoidably pass him.
Hamilton asks the team what he should do. Eventually the team confirm that Hamilton should let Trulli pass him to let him regain his position.
The stewards then clobber Trulli for passing Hamilton while the safety car is out, without realising Hamilton had accidentally passed him earlier when Trulli had run wide,
The stewards then ask McLaren and Hamilton what was discussed on the team radio about letting Trulli through...McLaren and Hamilton falsely claim "nothing", in the hope of leaving Trulli in the poo and gaining a place
If thats how this thing panned out, then (a) the stewards are SHITE for not fully checking the replay and the radio conversations before arriving at their decision, and (b) Hamilton/McLaren deserve to have the BOOK thrown at them for deliberately trying to take advantage of the sheer stupidity of the stewarding. I'm fairly disgusted with Hamilton if indeed that is how this thing played out.
During the safety car, Trulli ran wide, causing Hamilton to unavoidably pass him.
Hamilton asks the team what he should do. Eventually the team confirm that Hamilton should let Trulli pass him to let him regain his position.
The stewards then clobber Trulli for passing Hamilton while the safety car is out, without realising Hamilton had accidentally passed him earlier when Trulli had run wide,
The stewards then ask McLaren and Hamilton what was discussed on the team radio about letting Trulli through...McLaren and Hamilton falsely claim "nothing", in the hope of leaving Trulli in the poo and gaining a place
If thats how this thing panned out, then (a) the stewards are SHITE for not fully checking the replay and the radio conversations before arriving at their decision, and (b) Hamilton/McLaren deserve to have the BOOK thrown at them for deliberately trying to take advantage of the sheer stupidity of the stewarding. I'm fairly disgusted with Hamilton if indeed that is how this thing played out.
Actually I DID have an interest in it when I was a boy. My Dad used to be the accountant for a guy called John Surtees who was a racing driver back in the 1960s. I remember him once driving our Triumph Herald round country lanes in a way my parents never did!Admit it, you're just fighting an instinct that tells you that this is an interesting sport...you'll find yourself watching sometime soon and then you'll be hooked
Highfields Seagull
Well-known member
Thing is though, that isn't what they did. By all accounts Hamilton told the stewards that they hadn't given Trulli the place back; this led to Trulli's initial demotion.
Easy 10
Brain dead MUG SHEEP
I am actually, yes. I've given El Abd plenty of stick on here in the past for his "face-clutching". Its embarrassing, and makes me cringe whenever I see an Albion player doing that kind of thing.
At the moment, the facts appear to point towards McLaren and Hamilton deliberately lying in order to take advantage of the stewards gross incompetance, so that they can get a fellow competitor wrongly downgraded. Whatever way you slice it, that is a pretty despicable thing to do. If winning is so important to Hamilton that he's prepared to lie and cheat his way up the grid, then he's a bit of a scumbag in my book.
If Schumacher had ever pulled a stunt like this, the howls of protest and disgust would be heard from here to Berlin.
sten_super
Brain Surgeon
Agree with this, pretty much covers it IMO.
Right, here's my take on what happened...
Trulli went off the circuit, Hamilton went past him. Which under the rules is fine. They tried to check if it was ok, but no answer was forthcoming. So to be on the safe side they let Trulli through.
But then after the race it's clarified that they didn't have to let Trulli through, so they go to the stewards. Unfortunately they for whatever reason (and I admit it doesn't look good, probably why this guy's been suspended) they don't say that they let him through, which leads to Trulli being kicked out instead of just demoted to 4th which I guess is probably what would have happened.
Very silly all around IMO, and shows once again that proper, professional stewards and clear, consistent rules are VITALLY IMPORTANT. Because evidently they don't have them at the moment, and it's turning the sport into a laughing stock.
Trulli went off the circuit, Hamilton went past him. Which under the rules is fine. They tried to check if it was ok, but no answer was forthcoming. So to be on the safe side they let Trulli through.
But then after the race it's clarified that they didn't have to let Trulli through, so they go to the stewards. Unfortunately they for whatever reason (and I admit it doesn't look good, probably why this guy's been suspended) they don't say that they let him through, which leads to Trulli being kicked out instead of just demoted to 4th which I guess is probably what would have happened.
Very silly all around IMO, and shows once again that proper, professional stewards and clear, consistent rules are VITALLY IMPORTANT. Because evidently they don't have them at the moment, and it's turning the sport into a laughing stock.
Typical over reaction from the Hamilton fans all over the web saying he is GOD and always gets the rough treatment, even though in this case he did wrong. Sure the stewards messed it up abit but they have the right to do what they want, the teams sign up for the series knowing that so they have to accept punishment.
anyway....
...Watch V8Supercars............its MUCH better!
anyway....
...Watch V8Supercars............its MUCH better!
Easy 10
Brain dead MUG SHEEP
Having seen that Trulli had been demoted for overtaking during the safety car, when Hamilton/McLaren were later asked for their version of events on the incident, they had a clear choice. Having done the right thing at the time, the sportsmanlike thing in letting Trulli back through, they could have explained it all to the stewards, taken 4th, and let Trulli have his rightful 3rd.
Instead, when it became apparent the stewards were clueless, they kept schtum in the sneaking hope of inheriting 3rd place at Trulli's expense. Then when directly asked whether it was discussed over the radio, they stupidly (inexplicably) lied about it in order to maintain 3rd.
What a grotty, grubby team and driver. For the sake of gaining ONE place, they have permanently stained their reputations. I'd be embarrassed for them if I wasn't so revolted.
Instead, when it became apparent the stewards were clueless, they kept schtum in the sneaking hope of inheriting 3rd place at Trulli's expense. Then when directly asked whether it was discussed over the radio, they stupidly (inexplicably) lied about it in order to maintain 3rd.
What a grotty, grubby team and driver. For the sake of gaining ONE place, they have permanently stained their reputations. I'd be embarrassed for them if I wasn't so revolted.
The thing is though, because Trulli made a mistake and went off the road is the third place rightly his? It seems McLaren wanted clarification as to whether Hamilton's pass of him was legal (hence taking the safe option of letting him through) but then rather stupidly didn't tell the whole story when asked about it. Though as others have said the stewards really should have checked the radios too...
Yeah, I've just googled him and found he wasn't 'just' a racing driver in the 1960s - he was the bleedin' world champion in 1964!John Surtees Motorbike world champion and then F1 world champion, I'm impressed
I wish I'd kept the card he gave me for my 9th birthday now ...
the stewards just used further evidence (radios) to justify their punishment, if they listened to every radio stream and went down all other avenues possible on every incident in the race then incidents like these would'nt be cleared up for weeks later.
Its abit like a criminal being convicted:
1st he gets away with it after blatantly lying
2nd the Police then search and find further evidence
3rd Police then act appropriately
JJ McClure
Go Jags
That's pretty much what it comes down to for me too. Hamilton drove a storming race in Melbourne from the back of the grid to 4th and now that all means nothing. McLaren after their recent run ins with the FIA are the one team that need to be whiter than white (not in racist way), but they appear to have been intentionally deceptive to the point of cheating. I'm still undecided on Hamilton's involvement but I'm rapidly losing faith in the team.
Well no, it's not quite like that. He hadn't actually done anything wrong, it was the apparent lying which got Trulli kicked out instead of just demoted a place which seems to have done it. Surely if there's a way to get the facts over one of the key questions which they're asking it's pretty daft of the stewards not to use it?
Let us not be fooled by this joke of a sport, how many times a season in recent times can one sit there for nearly two hours watching a race and still not know the final finishing classification even when all the drivers have crossed the line?... I used to love F1 and wouldn't miss it but to be quite frank I wouldn't wipe my arse with it these days, PATHETIC.