God Save our Queen

[Simster]

and in Dublin. But NOT on the mainland. Consequently you could argue that Mr and Mrs English (and I know plenty) did not consider them 'as bad'. Throw in a few Union Jacks and you are not going to be as demonised on English sofas as the IRA, who have made it very clear they are not that into you. By trying to kill you.

Yes, yes. We all understand how the PIRA were a violent pro-republican party, and I'm not arguing that this is abhorrent.

I am arguing that it is ridiculous to conclude that the republican ideal is a sinister one, even if a lot of people do see it that way.

 

[London Calling]

Here, here Mr LC.

Of course 10 years ago, we were booking tickets to the

Enlightened Socialist Republic of Cuba.

Trains, planes, Samba, cigars and chica's.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

Killing people is wrong.

Most republicans don't do it. Most unionists don't do it.

Republicanism is a perfectly legitimate political belief. As is unionism.

To confuse holding a political belief with being a supporter of terrorism is just plain ignorant.

 

[User removed 4]

Although I'm fairly sure the UFF and UDA planted car bombs in Northern Ireland, I'm digressing by arguing this particular point.

My point is why anyone should consider republicanism in itself as "sinister" any more than, say, considering a religion sinister because of the existence of extremists? It's merely a point of view and does not suggest an agreement with violence.

i know that they planted bombs in crossmaglen around 1970(pity it wasnt nuclear and didnt raze the festering shithole from the face of the earth) and dublin around 1974, but other than that i dont think so, i'm ready to be corrected though, my point is that unionists didnt bomb us, "republicans" did, but obviously not the majority of peace loving, law abiding, pink fluffy ones.

 

[The Spanish]

Killing people is wrong.

Most republicans don't do it. Most unionists don't do it.

Republicanism is a perfectly legitimate political belief. As is unionism.

To confuse holding a political belief with being a supporter of terrorism is just plain ignorant.

dividing the world into those who nobly subscribe to a peaceful political belief and those who betray it through violence, and not recognising sliding scales of support for extreme methods that change due to circumstance, coercian, peer pressure, bullying or the simple dominance through force of the extremists, and consequent guilt by association in the eyes of your 'enemies', is equally ignorant.

 

[Gwylan]

and in Dublin. But NOT on the mainland. Consequently you could argue that Mr and Mrs English (and I know plenty) did not consider them 'as bad'.

I've steered clear of this binfest but this is one of the most ridiculous statements that I've ever seen on NSC (and that's saying something). Of course, the unionist paramilitaries didn't plant bombs on the Uk mainland - they're were pro-English -why on earth would they want to blow up their own side? It would be like the Germans dropping V2s over Dresden in WWII

As you admit, they the UDA and its like used an equal amount of violence as the IRA, just in Ireland (on both sides of the border). That's equally wrong as the IRA doing it - but don't try to claim that the UDA are somehow better because they didn't want to blow up what they perversely thought as "their side".

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

Killing people is wrong.

Most republicans don't do it. Most unionists don't do it.

Republicanism is a perfectly legitimate political belief. As is unionism.

To confuse holding a political belief with being a supporter of terrorism is just plain ignorant.

And understood by the vast majority of people.

 

[The Spanish]

I've steered clear of this binfest but this is one of the most ridiculous statements that I've ever seen on NSC (and that's saying something). Of course, the unionist paramilitaries didn't plant bombs on the Uk mainland - they're were pro-English -why on earth would they want to blow up their own side? It would be like the Germans dropping V2s over Dresden in WWII

As you admit, they the UDA and its like used an equal amount of violence as the IRA, just in Ireland (on both sides of the border). That's equally wrong as the IRA doing it - but don't try to claim that the UDA are somehow better because they didn't want to blow up what they perversely thought as "their side".

you should have steered clear of it, with hindsight. I do not for a minute claim the UDA were better. Please show me that bit.

This really doesnt warrant a reply but my point is some people thought they were all as bad as each other, some people did not think unionists were as bad. nowhere do I offer my opinion on them, only my thoughts on how the british public perceived them.

you see an avatar and take a shortcut you shouldnt.

 

[User removed 4]

But didn't they form their own army against the British people 1919-1921 and of course it went onto to develop into a terrorist force against the UK people and used regular violence against Catholics.

it was called the ulster volunteer force, no , they didnt form their own army against the british people ,the british army threatened mutiny if it was ordered against it, at least the officer corps did, it went on to become the 36th ulster division , they died in their thousands on the somme, they originally bought their rifles from the kaiser, apparently a popular ditty at the time , sung about the kaiser was " my god my god how can it be , their shooting down my men with the guns they got from me , i was told this by a very very old catholic woman who made us tea whilst on patrol in the countryside one day, she had seen so much during her life and it was a very interesting half hour we spent with her.

 

[User removed 4]

..so you do use public transport. What was it your beloved Maggie T said about public transport users?

i dont know , enlighten me ?

 

[Tom Bombadil]

It's all irrelevant seeing as a United Ireland is an historical inevitability

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

dividing the world into those who nobly subscribe to a peaceful political belief and those who betray it through violence, and not recognising sliding scales of support for extreme methods that change due to circumstance, coercian, peer pressure, bullying or the simple dominance through force of the extremists, and consequent guilt by association in the eyes of your 'enemies', is equally ignorant.

Regardless of sliding scales the vast majority of people know that killing is wrong. And that is fairly unchanging.

 

[The Spanish]

- they're were pro-English

hahahahahahaha brilliant. Thanks for that mate.

 

[User removed 4]

It's all irrelevant seeing as a United Ireland is an historical inevitability

can you explain how ?

 

[The Spanish]

Regardless of sliding scales the vast majority of people know that killing is wrong. And that is fairly unchanging.

Perhaps. Not nailed on though is it. But I have not disagreed with that for a minute.

 

[The Spanish]

can you explain how ?

they have not done that module yet

 

[User removed 4]

they have not done that module yet

 

[London Calling]

it was called the ulster volunteer force, no , they didnt form their own army against the british people ,the british army threatened mutiny if it was ordered against it, at least the officer corps did, it went on to become the 36th ulster division , they died in their thousands on the somme, they originally bought their rifles from the kaiser, apparently a popular ditty at the time , sung about the kaiser was " my god my god how can it be , their shooting down my men with the guns they got from me , i was told this by a very very old catholic woman who made us tea whilst on patrol in the countryside one day, she had seen so much during her life and it was a very interesting half hour we spent with her.

Very interesting programme on Moyles Great Grand father I believe, A republican, took up Arms againgst the British, but fought for the British Army and was one of the first soldiers to fight the Germans.

 

[Gwylan]

hahahahahahaha brilliant. Thanks for that mate.

Quite right - I meant British of course. mea culpa

But I notice that you avoided the main point I made: that the UDA had no reason to bomb the British mainland so, of course, they're going be perceived as "less bad" than the IRA. You'd get a different point of view in the streets of Dublin.

And I think that you're wrong about the perception as well. I agree that that was probably the case in the early stage of the troubles; I remember the anti-Irish hysteria at the time of the Guildford and Birmingham bombings - but that had gone by the 80s. There were plenty of opinion polls that showed that the English (and this time that is the right word) generally thought " a plague on both your houses"

 

[Tom Bombadil]

can you explain how ?

The demographics are in the Republicans favour. Staying within the UK is only tenable whilst the majority of the population are Unionist. Once the Republicans have a democratic majority then the government in Westminster will happily hand over the whole problem to Dublin.