Get an ID card or get a £2500 fine

[Biscuit]

Standard blinkered wibble.

Can you not give a reason that HASN'T come from a New Labour handbook?

I'm not a member of any political party. In fact I have recently turned 18 and havn't been able to take advantage of my vote. I am looking forward to it.

I have never read a New Labour handbook, I make my mind by by looking at both sides of the argument.

I try not to resort to cheap shots like 'wibble'mentation.

 

[chip]

You know how much chips along those lines would cost?

Somewhere in the region of a hundred grand apeice. And they also will eventually give the person they're injected in cancer, due to the constant radio waves entering their body and bone structure. Imagine having five mobiles strapped to your body, all making constant calls.

Now that last part is utter bollocks. The maximum harvestable energy from such adevice is in the order of picoWatts and the substrate design acts as a reflector so the radiation is actually leaving the body. More believavle that leaching boron or arsenic would do for you.

The worrying thing about ID cards is the biometric data. If anything they may well make it easier for criminals to acquire someones identity and thus harder to detect. ID card data could also be used by future governments to compile all sorts of data about us for profiling purposes that would be used to identify potential criminals. Remeber this lot want to lock up people who MAY commit crimes.

 

[beorhthelm]

For what its worth, this ID scam is just that - a scam to make money. Not from the Government, but from the consultants that have pitched it to Blunkett as being the cure for all social and law & order problems in this country.

It will do sweet FA in the fight against terrorism, little against organised crime but might help detain some habitual criminals. Thats if it actually ever gets delivered as currently envisaged. Which it wont, it'll be massivly over budget and wont have half the capabilities being suggested now, either because of pressure from civil lib groups or because it will turn out that the technology cant actually do xyz.

At the end of the day, they cant get the current IT systems to work, why will this one be different. Theres a chap down my street who's tax disc expired last June - but arent they supposed to know that and send a fine/summons/baliff round? If they know who does and doesnt have a TV licence, why the hell do they spend money advertising that fact instead of sending out a posse of inspectors to those addresses? Did you hear about the Department of Work and Pensions last week - some IT monkey managed to f*** up all *80000* PCs on their network.

This all demonstrates a level of incompetance that shows that government simply isnt fit or able to manage IT. So we will have to pay for a massivly expensive computer system that wont work properly.

To the supporters, does it still sound like a good idea?

 

[chip]

When I used to teach software engineering I used the houses of parliament as an example of a poorly specified project that was badly managed. It was around 50 years late and 10 times over budget.

beorhthelm's point is the most significant. The new air traffic control system still doesn't work, passports take forever to issue and farmers are told that their chipped cows don't exist.

Imagine that a steward takes offence to you calling the referee a wanker and scans your card. Next time you turn up at Falmer or Ashburton Grove the card reader on the gate decides you are banned.

 

[Brixtaan]

I'm in two minds now,maybe more accepting with age.10 years ago i'd have been outraged

 

[dougdeep]

I don't have strong feelings over this. I don't mind carrying a card.

 

[Dandyman]

I dont see what the problem is with ID cards other then that they should be free.

I will have no problem carrying one and think they could be useful if they contain medical information as well such as any medication you are allergic to etc.

People see a conspiracy everywhere these days. I know the arguments people use against ID cards so please do not lecture me on them.

Surely having to carry about an ID card is a small price to pay if it does cut down on the things it is designed to.

So apart from costing billions, having f*** all effect on crime or terrorism, increasing state control over citizens and encouraging the idea that we are beholden to the state rather than the state to us, encouraging yet more stop and search of innocent people, an absolutely cracking idea.

Just out of interest is there anything Neo Labour have done or have said they will do, that you do not agree with ?

 

[Brighton Breezy]

I do not agree with rail being privatised or foundation hospitals.

 

[Waterhall Wizard]

I didn't have any strong views either way before reading all of the posts on this thread. I am still of the same persuasion.

One thing that does get me angry is the suggestion that individuals pay for their cards directly, if they become law.

What would happen to people on a fixed income? They could apply for an identity card loan?

 

[clapham_gull]

As another software developer on here (there seems to be a few tonight) - I worry about the fact that government seems in capable of managing IT projects.

Inevitably the project will be farmed out to a private contractor and thats where the worries set in. Forget about the government knowing everything about us - what's to stop somebody else accessing that data.

Scaremongering ? That's exactly what the government is going on about - apparently we are under constant threat from terrorists, illegal immigrants etc...

I lived in inner City London for years and haven't been attacked in the street or in my home or blown up yet.

Big Brother ? The government is incapable of being "big brother", give them another toy to play with and they will even more inept.


We probably need to strengthen our borders - but that doesn't need an ID card. Foreigner entering the country WONT HAVE AN ID CARD FOR F*CKS SAKE !!!

Why is an ID Card inevitable ? Waste of money and very, very easy to fake.

It will take time, but once criminals have solved the problem (expensive) they will be faked in seconds (cheaply)

They wont make policing any easy either - cases are brought on EVIDENCE, not identity. Have you ever heard of a case failing against a criminal because they couldn't work out who they were ? Its laughable.

 

[somerset]

Foreigner entering the country WONT HAVE AN ID CARD FOR F*CKS SAKE !!!

.......and hence won't easily be able to swindle the country out of it's overstretched resources, I say easily, because no doubt some flamin civil liberties group will take legal action to ensure that they do take advantage of some percieved loophole.

 

[Biscuit]

For what its worth, this ID scam is just that - a scam to make money. Not from the Government, but from the consultants that have pitched it to Blunkett as being the cure for all social and law & order problems in this country.

My God, who told you?!

I see you have access to top secret Government meetings then? Or did you hear that from a man down the pub?

 

[Lammy]

My God, who told you?!

I see you have access to top secret Government meetings then? Or did you hear that from a man down the pub?

you STILL haven't come up with a benefit yet Biscuit.

 

[beorhthelm]

told me what? That its a scam to make some IT Consultancy a shed load of money, or that its supposed to solve social, economic and law&order issues?

The first is my cynical deduction - there no actual *need* for a new system, let alone one that will cost so much. The second are the reasons given by Blunkett himself.

 

[Dave the OAP]

I have no problems at all in carrying an ID card, after all i carry a Driving License and when I go abroad I carry a passport.

i dont see what the fuss is all about

 

[Lammy]

I have no problems at all in carrying an ID card, after all i carry a Driving License and when I go abroad I carry a passport.

i dont see what the fuss is all about

Exactely, so what is the point of them?

 

[beorhthelm]

i dont see what the fuss is all about

So you dont mind having to shell out £40-50 for one (and probably again every 10 years like your passport), and ive you dont have it on you when you pop down the shops getting a £2K + fine?

If your fine with that, then there's no fuss really.

 

[Biscuit]

you STILL haven't come up with a benefit yet Biscuit.

benefit fraud, illegal immigration, protection of identity..proof of entitlment to public services such as education, healthcare or state benefits. Ministers were told that in several recent arrests, police found people with papers giving them multiple identities, and the politicians stressed the importance of making sure the ID cards could not be forged.

 

[beorhthelm]

benefit fraud, illegal immigration, protection of identity..proof of entitlment to public services such as education, healthcare or state benefits. Ministers were told that in several recent arrests, police found people with papers giving them multiple identities, and the politicians stressed the importance of making sure the ID cards could not be forged.

Are you suggesting that in countries with ID cards (for example US, Spain, France) have no illegal immigration, misuse of public service or state benefits? No-one has every in these countries escaped the long arm of the law due to false ID?

Oh, in that case its a great idea! I cant understnad why we havent done it before now

 

[Biscuit]

Are you suggesting that in countries with ID cards (for example US, Spain, France) have no illegal immigration, misuse of public service or state benefits? No-one has every in these countries escaped the long arm of the law due to false ID?

Oh, in that case its a great idea! I cant understnad why we havent done it before now

Because no Government up to now has had the balls to do something thats right for the country, if its against public opinion. That's why.

The countries you have mentioned use ID cards yes, but not with the same amount of information as the one Labour is suggesting. It will confirm your identity, if you can prove you are entitled to benefits you get them.