[Albion] Fab OUT

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Because RDZ achieved our greatest ever success, no manager has ever achieved European football with us, and possibly never will, of course people will chase that success, to ignore that is bordering on ignorance. Some people just can't see past that he said he didn't agree with Bloom, and thats fine, I disagree with some of his comments, but for short term success he was right.

I think the club's failure to push on further into Europe just knocked the stuffing out of RDZ. From his POV the timeline must have looked pretty much perfect:

December 23 - Win Europa League group stage
January 24 - Reinforce injury-ravaged squad
February 24 - Get new signings up to speed
March 24 - Go fully-armed into Europa League round of 16

Can sort of see why he kind of gave up when January reinforcements never arrived. Not saying it's right, but it is understandable

 

[jackalbion]

Interesting that you use Chelsea as an example of good practice with managers - I mean their spend and wages absolutely dwarfs ours. Their financial sustainable is based on either Russian blood money or a crazy US billionaire. I couldn't think or a worse example.

I'm suggesting quite the opposite, I think Maresca is a massive, massive downgrade on Poch.

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

If we could have a manager with De Zerbi's tactical approach and Chris Hughton's statesmanlike demeanor and personal management skills, I'd be IN

How do you account for all kick offs post watershed?

 

[jackalbion]

What I and I think @Machiavelli are saying to you is, that Tony has enough credit in the bank for you to believe he did everything he could to keep, placate and compromise for RDZ - there is evidence with Fati and Dahoud that RDZ had a significant say in transfers. But it wasn't enough. Think Tony has earned the benefit of the doubt from all of us. He makes mistakes, but not many. We are one of the best run clubs in Europe if not the world.

But what about when we're not the best run club in the world. Lots of media says we are, and I wholly agree that we have been very well run so far, but I do feel like some fans head into a conscious bias towards the club, probably with good reason we've been successful, this is probably the first minor bump in the road since Hyypia, but I feel like some people are just happy to agree with whatever the club do, when do on occasion get stuff wrong. The less questioning voices there are, the less opportunity there is to prove people wrong, or improve, and I don't think that's healthy in any environment.

 

[chaileyjem]

But what about when we're not the best run club in the world. Lots of media says we are, and I wholly agree that we have been very well run so far, but I do feel like some fans head into a conscious bias towards the club, probably with good reason we've been successful, this is probably the first bump in the road since Hyypia, but I feel like some people are just happy to agree with whatever the club do, when do on occasion get stuff wrong. The less questioning voices there are, the less opportunity there is to prove people wrong, or improve, and I don't think that's healthy in any environment.

The grim home performances v Saints, Everton, Palace, Ipswich and Brentford are head scratching and mounting up (potter, Hughton, and even RDZ all had plenty of them tho) -. But FAB has plenty in the bank given Man Utd x 2 , City, Villa, Arsenal, Spurs, Newcastle and Bournemouth. And he’s had to grapple with injuries.
To suggest it’s anything close to Sami as a bump is really stretching it. We’re 9th !

EDIT - Jack says a bit later on that he was over egging it a bit bringing Sami into it. Its just a "minor bump" and he's pleased with FAB so far.

 

[The Fits]

But what about when we're not the best run club in the world. Lots of media says we are, and I wholly agree that we have been very well run so far, but I do feel like some fans head into a conscious bias towards the club, probably with good reason we've been successful, this is probably the first bump in the road since Hyypia, but I feel like some people are just happy to agree with whatever the club do, when do on occasion get stuff wrong. The less questioning voices there are, the less opportunity there is to prove people wrong, or improve, and I don't think that's healthy in any environment.

Barber and Bloom are pretty humble considering.
All of this best run club stuff has come mostly from the media and the reinforcement of others just parroting it on social media. Most people probably know very little about our club, who and how it’s run etc. But it has rather seeped into the attitudes of our supporters to the point where most believe we can literally do no wrong. That then distorts everything from people’s ability to question administrative decisions to people being totally blind to the behaviour of some of our players etc.
I agree with you that it isn’t healthy.
My feeling, and I know B and B would agree as they’ve said as much, is that you’re only as good as the people around you and that, following our prolonged success and in particular Chelsea’s pillage of us, the overall team (DofF, recruitment folk etc) isn’t as strong as it was.
Nothing wrong in questioning these things for me.

 

[Weststander]

As I recall didn't we sign Baleba, Bart and Pedro in that window? I thought RDZ wanted more proven mid-late 20s signings and his were Dahoud and he also pushed for Fati? We also got Igor. As transfer windows go, 3 of those have proved to be very successful, one was looking like coming good this season (kind of reinforcing that players coming new into the PL need a bit of time).

We never do much business in January and that infuriated RDZ to the extent he appeared to spend the next months sulking, making barbed comments to the press, and deteriorating his relationship with the owner, who is allowed to mistakes, and missed out on taking this squad forward.

July/Aug/Sept 23 nsc’ers (not the 2 always glass empty wind up artists) said we clearly needed a CB with pace, FB’s and DM’ers. [Dahoud definitely didn’t play that role at Dortmund, Milner obviously injury prone and slow]. None of that happened. A price was paid in the PL and Roma. Players running on empty from December.

Fair enough. TB’s baby. Obviously StarLizard didn’t suggest value could be bought for those key positions in that window. Although a forward thinker, TB would also be analytical of the recent past, lessons learnt.

 

[jackalbion]

The grim home performances v Saints, Everton, Palace, Ipswich and Brentford are head scratching and mounting up (potter, Hughton, and even RDZ all had plenty of them tho) -. But FAB has plenty in the bank given Man Utd x 2 , City, Villa, Arsenal, Spurs, Newcastle and Bournemouth. And he’s had to grapple with injuries.
To suggest it’s anything close to Sami as a bump is really stretching it. We’re 9th !

Apologies, I should have written minor bump and I'm not suggesting its anything like Hyypia, just thats the last time I remember any bump in the road.

 

[Bold Seagull]

But what about when we're not the best run club in the world. Lots of media says we are, and I wholly agree that we have been very well run so far, but I do feel like some fans head into a conscious bias towards the club, probably with good reason we've been successful, this is probably the first bump in the road since Hyypia, but I feel like some people are just happy to agree with whatever the club do, when do on occasion get stuff wrong. The less questioning voices there are, the less opportunity there is to prove people wrong, or improve, and I don't think that's healthy in any environment.

First bump in the road since Hyypia....we've got 34 points on the board in January, we're only 6 points off 6th. On what planet is this a comparable blip to being 2nd from bottom of the Championship going into a new year?

 

[chaileyjem]

July/Aug/Sept 23 nsc’ers (not the 2 always glass empty wind up artists) said we clearly needed a CB with pace, FB’s and DM’ers. [Dahoud definitely didn’t play that role at Dortmund, Milner obviously injury prone and slow]. None of that happened. A price was paid in the PL and Roma. Players running on empty from December.

Fair enough. TB’s baby. Obviously StarLizard didn’t suggest value could be bought for those key positions in that window. Although a forward thinker, TB would also be analytical of the recent past, lessons learnt.

RDZ has some agency here. His Roma (a) tactics were baffling as were other decisions especially in the back half of the season. . To suggest as some are, it’s all down to the previous transfer windows …or injuries or not being “backed”

 

[Guinness Boy]

Really need to separate out RDZ and FH as conversations IMO.

FH isn’t close to being as good a coach as his predecessor at the moment but he’s certainly not deserving of the sack. Talk of that is silly. He has the potential to be great. Let’s hope he gives us a bit more time when he reaches that potential rather than getting poached.

As for RDZ it’s very obvious there were irreparable relationship issues and he had to leave. It was obvious at the time and even more obvious now with leaks and shade being thrown his way, sometimes by people who need to maintain a good relationship with the club.

 

[Weststander]

RDZ has some agency here. His Roma (a) tactics were baffling as were other decisions especially in the back half of the season. . To suggest as some are, it’s all down to the previous transfer windows …or injuries or not being “backed”

Do you think Potter or FH would’ve achieved a higher PL finish and progressed further in Europe with that squad? I recall @Guinness Boy saying RDZ was playing with one arm behind his back.

Errors, yes. A weak 2 man CM at Villa Park against 3 powerhouses. In Rome, wasn’t that in essence what FH did at Stamford Bridge? Don’t like it, but others here think it a work of genius.

 

[jackalbion]

First bump in the road since Hyypia....we've got 34 points on the board in January, we're only 6 points off 6th. On what planet is this a comparable blip to being 2nd from bottom of the Championship going into a new year?

Apologies, I should have written minor bump and I'm not suggesting its anything like Hyypia, just thats the last time I remember any bump in the road.

As per my response to Chailey

 

[jackalbion]

RDZ has some agency here. His Roma (a) tactics were baffling as were other decisions especially in the back half of the season. . To suggest as some are, it’s all down to the previous transfer windows …or injuries or not being “backed”

Not at all, he was making some odd tactical decisions, but thats not to suggest with a good summer, he could have had a tactical re-jig and found a new approach. I think just before the announcement was made, I think most were pretty accepting of that plan going forward.

 

[BrickTamland]

We’re 9th and haven’t been able to play a single back to back same 11 due to injuries.

We spent a lot sure, but how many consistent games have those big money players played?

People are in dreamland if they think we should be doing much better.

Sure, some of those home performances have been disappointing but to suggest FH should go, or the club is suddenly no longer well run is utter tripe

 

[Flounce]

Because RDZ achieved our greatest ever success, no manager has ever achieved European football with us, and possibly never will, of course people will chase that success, to ignore that is bordering on ignorance. Some people just can't see past that he said he didn't agree with Bloom, and thats fine, I disagree with some of his comments, but for short term success he was right.

OK, carry on pining but it won’t help in any way at all

Quite how I am considered ignorant in anything I said is a mystery to me. He’s gone, get over it

Suggesting we might not repeat the Europe experience given who runs the club is somewhat disrespectful imo, although there are no guarantees in football

RDZ also did way more than just say he didn’t agree with Bloom too, he behaved like a **** in interviews and to the media whilst sulking.

 

[deletebeepbeepbeep]

We’re 9th and haven’t been able to play a single back to back same 11 due to injuries.

We spent a lot sure, but how many consistent games have those big money players played?

People are in dreamland if they think we should be doing much better.

Sure, some of those home performances have been disappointing but to suggest FH should go, or the club is suddenly no longer well run is utter tripe

It's Dreamland to think we should be beating one of Everton Southampton Palace Ipswich Wolves at home?

 

[jackalbion]

OK, carry on pining but it won’t help in any way at all

Quite how I am considered ignorant in anything I said is a mystery to me. He’s gone, get over it

Suggesting we might not repeat the Europe experience given who runs the club is somewhat disrespectful imo, although there are no guarantees in football

RDZ also did way more than just say he didn’t agree with Bloom too, he behaved like a **** in interviews and to the media whilst sulking.

But your asking why people are pining, its glaringly obvious, for the record I don't necessarily want him back, but I can see why people do. Potter acted like a cock in interviews as well. Disrespectful, laughable, I don't want it to be the case, there is every chance we don't qualify for Europe again, as much as there is a chance we do, that's the reality of finances in football. Very few clubs of our size have ever achieved European football more than once, it would be a generational achievement to do that.

 

[kevo]

I think the club's failure to push on further into Europe just knocked the stuffing out of RDZ. From his POV the timeline must have looked pretty much perfect:

December 23 - Win Europa League group stage
January 24 - Reinforce injury-ravaged squad
February 24 - Get new signings up to speed
March 24 - Go fully-armed into Europa League round of 16

Can sort of see why he kind of gave up when January reinforcements never arrived. Not saying it's right, but it is understandable

He didn't leave for that reason, though. He left because he wanted a say in who we signed.

But yes, we can only dream of what might had happened had injuries not crocked us at a crucial time (Mitoma just after the closure of the January transfer window was a big blow) and if Uncle Tony had put his hand in his pocket to make one or two signings to strengthen the squad.

 

[Clive Walker]

bloom will be dissapointed. The gamble he took in the summer was a calculated one off the back of other teams struggles with FFP. It was a seize the moment type thing! To have Notts Forrest and Newcastle above Brighton will be bitterly disappointing for him.

I think he was right to push the boundaries but the squad is so unbalanced and the manager who had to manage the inflated squad was a real wild card!