[Albion] Fab OUT

[jackalbion]

You must have some seriously RDZ tinted glasses if you can’t see that he had to move on and entirely the right decision for all concerned.

I don’t think either party was necessarily in the right. Time will tell whether it’s entirely the right decision.

 

[GT49er]

But this is it, the problems that everyone is claiming to be seeing on here won’t be solved with a new manager and new system. The only decision that I am unsure was the right one, is the decision to move on RDZ in May. For whatever reasons that had to happen according to the club.

If it wasn't going to be solved in May by bringing in a new manager, it certainly wasn't going to be solved by keeping on the old one!

 

[jackalbion]

If it wasn't going to be solved in May by bringing in a new manager, it certainly wasn't going to be solved by keeping on the old one!

Why? If the club and RDZ could separate their differences then it may have been beneficial. I don’t think RDZ went about it the right way, but some of the issues he highlighted are being realised in some ways already, but far too may on here are always in the mindset the club can never make a mistake.

 

[GT49er]

Why? If the club and RDZ could separate their differences then it may have been beneficial. I don’t think RDZ went about it the right way, but some of the issues he highlighted are being realised in some ways already, but far too may on here are always in the mindset the club can never make a mistake.

Of course the club can make a mistake. So did de Zerbi, and I can't see him getting any more out of the £200M we spent than anyone else.

 

[London Irish]

We’d definitely be higher in the table if RDZ was here, he’d have loved working with the new players we have now and I think would be getting the best out of the older ones like Pedro. But it’s a parlour game debate and not important really.

Important tho is Fab shapes up. Yesterday was his worst day in the job so far IMO. Fairly obvious what Moyes was going to do and I didn’t see a single intelligent anticipation of the scale of the job at hand or any intelligent response when the wheels were falling off.

 

[oldboyroy]

Amorim in

I heard this being mentioned on Seagulls Social. Definitely needs some punishment but if Minteh was fit and sober I’d rather Hurzeler stuck with his original line up and gameplan rather than changing things (for the worse with hindsight) at the last minute. Fine him later, or abuse him in training, don’t unsettle things further on matchday.

Yes, surely a fine would've been sufficient as well as being given a rollicking.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Why? If the club and RDZ could separate their differences then it may have been beneficial. I don’t think RDZ went about it the right way, but some of the issues he highlighted are being realised in some ways already, but far too may on here are always in the mindset the club can never make a mistake.

Sorry Jack, the elephant in the room here is it wasn’t really ‘the club’ it was Tony and how he operates the finances and the transfer policy.

So what did Tony not do right in your eyes, not tearing up his policies on transfers and financial prudence to keep someone’s ego happy?

Do you really need time to tell you whether Tony was right or RDZ was, when you really think about it?

 

[Flounce]

People still pining for Potter however are completely stuck in the past, find something new to talk about.

But somehow the same does not apply to RDZ pining. Weird

I am unable to pine for either of them, one turned Judas, the other gave up and threw a strop.

Both had a big part in where we are now though and took us forward, jury still out for me on whether FH will improve us further, but he will be given time and who knows?

 

[Weststander]

Sorry Jack, the elephant in the room here is it wasn’t really ‘the club’ it was Tony and how he operates the finances and the transfer policy.

So what did Tony not do right in your eyes, not tearing up his policies on transfers and financial prudence to keep someone’s ego happy?

Do you really need time to tell you whether Tony was right or RDZ was, when you really think about it?

The club got the summer 23 transfer window wrong. Can’t recall, but did TB much later touch on that?

 

[dazzer6666]

Why? If the club and RDZ could separate their differences then it may have been beneficial. I don’t think RDZ went about it the right way, but some of the issues he highlighted are being realised in some ways already, but far too may on here are always in the mindset the club can never make a mistake.

Strongly suspect they were ‘irreconcilable differences’ though, hence the parting……….RdeZ seemingly wanted to rip up the long-term approach to recruitment/investment in playing staff and splash the cash on oven-ready PL/EL players. Can’t find the exact quotes but I’m sure PB at least has alluded - with hindsight - to us not building a deep enough squad for EL, maybe if we’d done that better the gap between DeZ’s requirements and the club strategy could have been bridgeable

 

[Machiavelli]

I’m a big RDZ fan, I never join in the slagging off. Grateful for the best Albion football in my 49 years of support. I take that back further, the summer 23 transfer spend/incomings was woefully inadequate, bearing in mind the historic European campaign to come. What a shame the money wasn’t spent then. Not after-timing …. nsc in Aug/Sept 23 covered the issue in depth …. before form fell apart, players got injured.

I kind of agree with all of this with one caveat. Going big in any window just isn't our thing unless there are exceptional circumstances that give us a competitive advantage. Those stars aligned in summer 24 which is why we went big. If fans think that's our new normal, they're going to have to suck up even more disappointment.

RDZ turned very despondent from Jan24 when it was apparent he wasn't going to get what he wanted for the rest of the season, and that we wouldn't be buying the transfer targets (ready-made top quality 25-29yo) he wanted. We've got a model which is working just fine -- investing in young players, developing them and, if the right offer . FH is also an investment and I doubt Bloom is going to indulge the OP and the small but vocal sample of fans and move him on. FH has bought into the project and PB/TB/DW have bought into FH. That's why FH uses the phrase 'trust the process' constantly in interviews and, when asked about the 'DNA' of the club indicates it's developing young players.

 

[Machiavelli]

I don’t think either party was necessarily in the right. Time will tell whether it’s entirely the right decision.

It's at this point that I disagree with you. TB/PB/DW get the big decisions and their timing right. That has to be the default setting for fans until there's clear and long-running evidence otherwise.

 

[Bold Seagull]

The club got the summer 23 transfer window wrong. Can’t recall, but did TB much later touch on that?

As I recall didn't we sign Baleba, Bart and Pedro in that window? I thought RDZ wanted more proven mid-late 20s signings and his were Dahoud and he also pushed for Fati? We also got Igor. As transfer windows go, 3 of those have proved to be very successful, one was looking like coming good this season (kind of reinforcing that players coming new into the PL need a bit of time).

We never do much business in January and that infuriated RDZ to the extent he appeared to spend the next months sulking, making barbed comments to the press, and deteriorating his relationship with the owner, who is allowed to mistakes, and missed out on taking this squad forward.

 

[jackalbion]

Sorry Jack, the elephant in the room here is it wasn’t really ‘the club’ it was Tony and how he operates the finances and the transfer policy.

So what did Tony not do right in your eyes, not tearing up his policies on transfers and financial prudence to keep someone’s ego happy?

Do you really need time to tell you whether Tony was right or RDZ was, when you really think about it?

I think they got the 23 Summer and 24 January window wrong. We had opportunity to build on our success. I don't think our 24 Summer window has been as amazing as some say it has. We have spent £200m million on players that are either sicknotes or have none or very little premier league experience. We've left the manager with a very unbalanced squad, and spent the whole of the summer ignoring a giant glaring hole in our team (CB). This January has led to more puzzling transfer decisions IMO (Enciso and now possibly Ferguson), FH has been subtly asking for a striker and CB in his press conferences, yet nobody seems to pick up on it like they did with RDZ (because he isn't a mental Italian likely). Potentially this is the third manager in a row who is subtly (or unsubtly in RDZ's case) suggesting we need to improve the squad. I agree that Bloom does everything the right way. and I'm more than happy with our progress atm. But if you want to go up to the top level you need a top level coach, and to attract one of those you need to give them some say in what they are doing. Chelsea is an example of this, they've brought in Maresca to oversee a world class side, when they had Pochettino who was building on that success. I like FH, I think he has the minerals to be a top level manager, but its going to take time, we have to slowly nurture his talent, and its going to be a lot of hit and miss, and I don't think thats going to be helped if we decide to sell Baleba and Pedro in the summer. I do however wonder what sort of benefit this season there would have been if RDZ and Bloom could solve their differences, because I think both were in the wrong in some way, but RDZ at full flow was the best manager we've ever had.

 

[jackalbion]

But somehow the same does not apply to RDZ pining. Weird

I am unable to pine for either of them, one turned Judas, the other gave up and threw a strop.

Both had a big part in where we are now though and took us forward, jury still out for me on whether FH will improve us further, but he will be given time and who knows?

Because RDZ achieved our greatest ever success, no manager has ever achieved European football with us, and possibly never will, of course people will chase that success, to ignore that is bordering on ignorance. Some people just can't see past that he said he didn't agree with Bloom, and thats fine, I disagree with some of his comments, but for short term success he was right.

 

[Clive Walker]

i've let the dust settle a wee bit and am now in a position to say that im more in the Fab OUT camp than im in the IN camp.

I think the club looked for a yes man and a good communicator and they succeeded in that. What in fact they needed was a more experienced head who could effectively manage the swelling squad made up of talent and potential talenet. Aside from the lack of style of play and the results I think the seemingly loss in engagement from the 2 of our biggest star potentials is enough to say that he has failed to keep everyone onside. I;ve also got it on good authority that DUnk and Fab have had a falling out.

We went big in the summer and needed someone to protect those assets. It looks like he has done the opposite while also backing us backwards in terms of style of play and overall excitement.

 

[The Fits]

Of course the club can make a mistake. So did de Zerbi, and I can't see him getting any more out of the £200M we spent than anyone else.

I think De Zerbi burnt his bridges, and then some. But if he hadn’t and we managed to find anywhere near the levels we hit two seasons ago we’d be top four comfortably.

 

[Hiheidi]

Despite this constant narrative that RDZ was obsessed with getting in experienced players, it is interesting that since leaving he has pursued some of our young players - Enciso, Adingra and now Ferguson. And gone after some of our young prospect targets.

 

[Jackthelad]

no manager has ever achieved European football with us, and possibly never will

No reason why we can’t qualify for European football and do well in the future. We are well run club with bright future.

Maybe our current manager was a risk with his lack of experience and age but he definitely needs more time.

 

[Bold Seagull]

I think they got the 23 Summer and 24 January window wrong. We had opportunity to build on our success. I don't think our 24 Summer window has been as amazing as some say it has. We have spent £200m million on players that are either sicknotes or have none or very little premier league experience. We've left the manager with a very unbalanced squad, and spent the whole of the summer ignoring a giant glaring hole in our team (CB). This January has led to more puzzling transfer decisions IMO (Enciso and now possibly Ferguson), FH has been subtly asking for a striker and CB in his press conferences, yet nobody seems to pick up on it like they did with RDZ (because he isn't a mental Italian likely). Potentially this is the third manager in a row who is subtly (or unsubtly in RDZ's case) suggesting we need to improve the squad. I agree that Bloom does everything the right way. and I'm more than happy with our progress atm. But if you want to go up to the top level you need a top level coach, and to attract one of those you need to give them some say in what they are doing. Chelsea is an example of this, they've brought in Maresca to oversee a world class side, when they had Pochettino who was building on that success. I like FH, I think he has the minerals to be a top level manager, but its going to take time, we have to slowly nurture his talent, and its going to be a lot of hit and miss, and I don't think thats going to be helped if we decide to sell Baleba and Pedro in the summer. I do however wonder what sort of benefit this season there would have been if RDZ and Bloom could solve their differences, because I think both were in the wrong in some way, but RDZ at full flow was the best manager we've ever had.

As said above, the successes of the Summer '23 window are likely the players who we will struggle to keep hold of as time goes on.

Interesting that you use Chelsea as an example of good practice with managers - I mean their spend and wages absolutely dwarfs ours. Their financial sustainable is based on either Russian blood money or a crazy US billionaire. I couldn't think or a worse example.

What I and I think @Machiavelli are saying to you is, that Tony has enough credit in the bank for you to believe he did everything he could to keep, placate and compromise for RDZ - there is evidence with Fati and Dahoud that RDZ had a significant say in transfers. But it wasn't enough. Think Tony has earned the benefit of the doubt from all of us. He makes mistakes, but not many. We are one of the best run clubs in Europe if not the world.