[Politics] Extinction Rebellion protester grounds plane at London City...

[Mr Putdown]

i agree something needs to be done on climate change.

But to think these people are just targeting the airline industry is something that really bothers me. Granted, I work in the airline industry; i am fully aware the industry needs to adapt new technology.

But that research and development cannot be rushed. The new Airbus NEO planes are 17% more fuel efficient, research is being conducted on hybrid engines. But this CANNOT be rushed when we are considering there are people's lives at stake.

Prior to working in the airline industry, I worked for Cemex. Cement manufacturing is one of the most energy intensive industries out there. The production of Clinker is terrible and I could be wrong (please let me know if i am) but cement manufacturing contributes almost 2x as much carbon emissions as the airline industry. Cemex had no interest in developing new technology or investigating other means of producing clinker. They had no reason too.

Where are the protests against energy intensive industries such as Cement, steel and the like? There isn't. Because targeting one industry like the airline industry garners attention; but unfortunately the wrong kind of attention.These people can look like martyrs without doing all too much.

There are much worse industries out there. No protests against them, no shouting or scrutinising of them. Instead, these people will listen to what Greta says and without much thought or investigation of their own, take is as gospel.

Most of us need “concrete, steel and the like”, few of us need to fly.

 

[nicko31]

Of course there are protests against other industries. People are constantly protesting against animal agriculture as it has hugely damaging effects on our environment. But when the science suggests the two biggest things an individual can do to reduce their impact on the environment, flying and eating animal products, it’s hardly surprising that they are the industries targeted.

Aviation is a shocker for Co2, compared to say automotive transport it gets away with murder with no tax at all on aviation fuel. Flying from London to LA basically has the same footprint as heating an average UK house for 1 year, around 2.7 tonnes of Co2.

Flying business or on a private jet is nothing short of an environment crime. Interesting map put aviation emissions in perspective

 

[SollysLeftFoot]

You were complaining about how people have protested against flying, citing other industries are worse yet people don’t protest them. I’ve given you a clear example of that not being the case and cited scientific research re the two things an individual can do to reduce their impact on the environment.

However, if I’ve misinterpreted your post please by all means point me in the right direction.

INDUSTRY - Agriculture has its own bracket. Protests against farming have often been about animal welfare/rights, only recently has this been attributed to greenhouse gases.

"Cited scientific research" - no you haven't, you made a claim without substantial evidence to back it up.

Aviation emissions are rising. No one's disputed that, what's been cited (can be in evidence here) https://www.theguardian.com/busines...issions-rising-up-to-70-faster-than-predicted is that the airlines industry is adapting new technologies. It cannot be anywhere near as fast tracked as many would hope.

"The study shows the UK is responsible for 4% of global aviation CO2 emissions" - UK responsible for only 4% of the airline industy's emissions.

https://ec.europa.eu/clima/policies/transport/aviation_en Aviation 2% globally.

Changing travel habits is not going to have as much of an impact as say, taxing cement manufacturers etc - or bringing in fines for exceeding x amount of emissions.

 

[SollysLeftFoot]

Aviation is a shocker for Co2, compared to say automotive transport it gets away with murder with no tax at all on aviation fuel. Flying from London to LA basically has the same footprint as heating an average UK house for 1 year, around 2.7 tonnes of Co2.

Flying business or on a private jet is nothing short of an environment crime. Interesting map put aviation emissions in perspective

View attachment 116053

2% of global emissions can be attributed to the airlines industry. Easy to get so worked up about data without context.

Some companies hold more cash than entire countries. Such a comparison is incredibly misleading.

 

[Deleted member 2719]

It’s not about being perfect or all or nothing, it’s about reducing our impact on the environment. It’s like Pie says, we contribute to society so therefore of course we are hypocrites but it’s better than being an ********.

The point I am making the ones who shout loudest on things like this are the worst.
They fly on a regular basis.

Flying is the one thing you should be knocking on the head if you are to be taken seriously.

The original poster is a classic example of this.

 

[SollysLeftFoot]

Most of us need “concrete, steel and the like”, few of us need to fly.

Ah, of course; ignore the process I discussed. Easier to virtue signal

https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2019/feb/25/concrete-the-most-destructive-material-on-earth

Read this, then come back for some more virtue signalling. You're precisely the problem.

 

[nicko31]

2% of global emissions can be attributed to the airlines industry. Easy to get so worked up about data without context.

Some companies hold more cash than entire countries. Such a comparison is incredibly misleading.

Over 6% of UK emissions are from aviation fuel, though taking into account other factors the true amount is estimated around double that. And of cause its still growing and the government likes to pretend airline Co2 doesn't count

 

[SollysLeftFoot]

over 6% of uk emissions are from aviation fuel, though taking into account other factors the true amount is estimated around double that. And of cause its still growing and the government likes to pretend airline co2 doesn't count

[citation seriously needed]

 

[midnight_rendezvous]

INDUSTRY - Agriculture has its own bracket. Protests against farming have often been about animal welfare/rights, only recently has this been attributed to greenhouse gases.

"Cited scientific research" - no you haven't, you made a claim without substantial evidence to back it up.

Aviation emissions are rising. No one's disputed that, what's been cited (can be in evidence here) https://www.theguardian.com/busines...issions-rising-up-to-70-faster-than-predicted is that the airlines industry is adapting new technologies. It cannot be anywhere near as fast tracked as many would hope.

"The study shows the UK is responsible for 4% of global aviation CO2 emissions" - UK responsible for only 4% of the airline industy's emissions.

https://ec.europa.eu/clima/policies/transport/aviation_en Aviation 2% globally.

Changing travel habits is not going to have as much of an impact as say, taxing cement manufacturers etc - or bringing in fines for exceeding x amount of emissions.

As someone who knows an awful lot of vegan activists I can tell you with great confidence that the environmental issue has always been a big part of the movement. Yes, animal welfare has always been the focal point of the movement, however the environmental impact of animal agriculture has been under investigation for years and has been a key point in protests against the industry.

Planes are ultimately far more carbon-intense than other forms of transport and In 2018, commercial airlines burned 94 billion gallons of fossil fuel globally. And the potential for eco-friendly flying is quoted as being “rather limited” and potentially decades away. So in the mean time, a simple, easy thing an individual can do to lessen their impact on the environment is to fly less (and stop eating animal products).

‪https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2010/apr/06/aviation-q-and-a‬

 

[nicko31]

[citation seriously needed]

Its a dirty industry that doesn't pay its way.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2010/apr/06/aviation-q-and-a

 

[SollysLeftFoot]

As someone who knows an awful lot of vegan activists I can tell you with great confidence that the environmental issue has always been a big part of the movement. Yes, animal welfare has always been the focal point of the movement, however the environmental impact of animal agriculture has been under investigation for years and has been a key point in protests against the industry.

Planes are ultimately far more carbon-intense than other forms of transport and In 2018, commercial airlines burned 94 billion gallons of fossil fuel globally. And the potential for eco-friendly flying is quoted as being “rather limited” and potentially decades away. So in the mean time, a simple, easy thing an individual can do to lessen their impact on the environment is to fly less (and stop eating animal products).

‪https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2010/apr/06/aviation-q-and-a‬

As someone who knows an awful lot of pilots, I can tell you with great confidence, they all drive electric cars.

Your source is from 2010. Update your sources, please. You're also, continuously and quite clearly avoiding all the other points.

 

[SollysLeftFoot]

Its a dirty industry that doesn't pay its way.

View attachment 116056

EDIT:

See above.

Outdated article. Additionally, the arguments why it's higher are speculation. It's basically, because wealthy people fly. It's got to be higher.

You, like many other. Also seem to be refusing to acknowledge other key points. Again, literally epitomising the problem.

 

[Justice]

Khan will find another way of profiling from the motorist pretending he’s saving the planet.

 

[LamieRobertson]

These environmental protesters are the worst scum in the UK.

I wish we had police like the French to kick lumps out of them.

Thank goodness we don’t ...still you could always go like in France

 

[nicko31]

EDIT:

See above.

Outdated article.

Aviation hasn't changed much since 2010 and the UK just keeps flying more and more. VAT on UK domestic flights would be a great start, then a person annual carbon limit, past that you pay ££££...

 

[midnight_rendezvous]

As someone who knows an awful lot of pilots, I can tell you with great confidence, they all drive electric cars.

Your source is from 2010. Update your sources, please. You're also, continuously and quite clearly avoiding all the other points.

That’s lovely but I don’t see what pilots having electric cars has to do with how bad flying is for the environment. And even if those sources are from 2010, unless you can point towards evidence that disproves it...

What points am I missing? That concrete should be taxed? Go for it! Tax all the concrete! Won’t change the fact that people should work to reduce their impact on the environment, easiest ways to do that; flying less and eating less meat (as a vegan just going to keep working that in there).

 

[SollysLeftFoot]

Its a dirty industry that doesn't pay its way.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2010/apr/06/aviation-q-and-a

View attachment 116056

Well it does, given its a major source of income for the government in the form of EUAs. But I guess you're not clued up on what they are.

https://www.ft.com/content/ff07fd54-6dc6-11e9-a9a5-351eeaef6d84

Big source of income for the government.

HOWEVER, I do agree the industry should introduce a minimum price floor on tickets. BUT, again, aviation is no where as filthy as the cement industry (as i keep discussing)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-46455844
https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2019/feb/25/concrete-the-most-destructive-material-on-earth

Two good write ups.

Other industries are much worse, and further scrutiny of them is needed and needed quickly.

 

[beorhthelm]

Its a dirty industry that doesn't pay its way.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2010/apr/06/aviation-q-and-a

View attachment 116056

are you going to provide citation, because the Guardian article doesnt.

 

[BadFish]

https://youtu.be/feeFO_LHOu8

Sent from my SM-A600FN using Tapatalk

He is spot on there.

Sent from my Redmi Note 7 using Tapatalk

 

[SollysLeftFoot]

Aviation hasn't changed much since 2010 and the UK just keeps flying more and more. VAT on UK domestic flights would be a great start, then a person annual carbon limit, past that you pay ££££...

Uh, yes it has.

[1] That’s lovely but I don’t see why pilots having electric cars has to do with how bad flying is for the environment. And even if those sources are from 2010, unless you can point towards evidence that disproves it...[2]

What points am I missing? That concrete should be taxed? Go for it! Tax all the concrete! [3] Won’t change the fact that people should work to reduce their impact on the environment, easiest ways to do that; flying less and eating less meat (as a vegan just going to keep working that in there).

[1] Your anecdote....
[2] Uh, updated sources is very important. That's almost a decade old and new technologies introduced.
[3] Working assumption that a tax would work. I've mentioned 3 times now what they are. You've avoided the points all along and pretended not to know what they are.

Minor changes towards how we live our lives are not enough.You're virtue signalling. It's all you're doing. No point discussing this with you any further.