Europe: In or Out

[GT49er]

VAT replaced purchase tax in the UK: this could be as high as 33% and was certainly more complex, with an array of different rates and exceptions. VAT is considerably simpler and cheaper than the alternative

Purchase tax was a one-off at the point of sale, not charged and then reclaimed all through the manufacture to sale process. Much simpler.

Believe me, the introduction of VAT was a friggin' nightmare at the time.

 

[Hughton]

Purchase tax was a one-off at the point of sale, not charged and then reclaimed all through the manufacture to sale process. Much simpler.

Believe me, the introduction of VAT was a friggin' nightmare at the time.

As soon as my first business hit the VAT threshold it was a nightmare.... but from my naive point of view if I could have avoided V.A.T on all my sales to the EU I would be 20% better of on that 30% market.

 

[5ways]

To be honest with you, I already feel FK'ed over, (while i respect the fact that first time buyers need a break, I don't believe their (the government's) agenda with these new policies" I am fortunate enough to have a couple of buy to lets and they are leaving me pretty screwed.

I don't have a clue whats best for UK in or OUT but I have a Vote.... and I was bought up to think of the wider population and not only myself and to remember where I come from, never been interested in politics until now but i guess this is a big thing, I watched a documentary the other day about Ukraine and how some of their people were so desperate to be involved in the EU they were willing to die.. but in my uneducated mind it was Europe or Russia, could we be a Switzerland? or am I completely misinterpreting the whole thing?

Before the out-ers get you, the Swiss model would not work for us. Too late to write a proper reply but this article seems to cover the main points well: blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexitvote/2015/11/10/the-swiss-model-doesnt-stand-up-to-scrutiny/.

 

[Hughton]

Thanks for your advice/reply I literally have no clue to vote in or out.

 

[Hughton]

The way my accountant and my current business runs is, that I have to give 20% of TURNOVER not profits to any customer in the EU, so I therefore make more selling outside the EU, all my suppliers are based outside the EU. Someone put a positive on this individual situation, I am lost to vote in or out as are many

 

[Hughton]

before the out-ers get you, the swiss model would not work for us. Too late to write a proper reply but this article seems to cover the main points well: blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexitvote/2015/11/10/the-swiss-model-doesnt-stand-up-to-scrutiny/.

but if we weren't forced to copy, i'll be honest i am clueless but a very young entrepreneur, do not know what way to decide.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

I'm self-employed and am old enough to remember purchase tax (although I was at school then, I remember it was a real pain to calculate). No. I'm not pro-EU but do recognise there are some advantages to VAT.

You also have to remember that VAT was originally 8% and the Thatcher government's policy was to reduce income tax (which it did) and raise indirect taxes (VAT and duty on petrol, fags and booze - which it also did). Any attempt to reduce these taxes will certainly mean an income tax rise

It might well do but thanks to EU rules and it's aim to 'harmonise' VAT rates no British government can actually lower VAT or remove it from a product that already attracts VAT. Hence the issue they currently have with tampons.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Before the out-ers get you, the Swiss model would not work for us. Too late to write a proper reply but this article seems to cover the main points well: blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexitvote/2015/11/10/the-swiss-model-doesnt-stand-up-to-scrutiny/.

All very interesting and even as an Outer I agree, the Swiss model wouldn't work for us - we will need our own model. That said, Switzerland has shown you don't actually have to be in the club and that the country doesn't collapse if you aren't in.

And before [MENTION=33934]Hughton[/MENTION] takes this article too seriously to sway his vote, the key bit of information in the whole article is at the end :

"Pat McFadden is shadow minister for Europe and Andy Tarrant is his advisor on the EU referendum." ...... a tad biased.

 

[Bevendean Hillbilly]

Here's what happened yesterday...

I was on lunch break with 7 colleagues and I dropped the EU bomb into conversation. Of the them NOT ONE had the vaguest idea of the issues and no one had a clear view. The closest was a vague "it's got something to do with immigrants hasn't it"?

My conclusion. Either I work with a bunch of ****wits or we have no idea what we're doing as a country.

Truly scary.

 

[crookie]

Here's what happened yesterday...

I was on lunch break with 7 colleagues and I dropped the EU bomb into conversation. Of the them NOT ONE had the vaguest idea of the issues and no one had a clear view. The closest was a vague "it's got something to do with immigrants hasn't it"?

My conclusion. Either I work with a bunch of ****wits or we have no idea what we're doing as a country.

Truly scary.

I hope there will be some info coming out after the deal is negotiated but for anyone not to have a clue what's going on must mean they never pick up a newspaper or watch the news, so I'd go with the former !!

 

[Chief Wiggum]

Here's what happened yesterday...

I was on lunch break with 7 colleagues and I dropped the EU bomb into conversation. Of the them NOT ONE had the vaguest idea of the issues and no one had a clear view. The closest was a vague "it's got something to do with immigrants hasn't it"?

My conclusion. Either I work with a bunch of ****wits or we have no idea what we're doing as a country.

Truly scary.

I have had many similar conversations recently with much the same result.

It is clear that both the official IN and OUT campaigns need to get their act together very quickly in terms of engaging with this section of the population. I would hate to think that we sleepwalk into a decision through voter apathy.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

As soon as my first business hit the VAT threshold it was a nightmare.... but from my naive point of view if I could have avoided V.A.T on all my sales to the EU I would be 20% better of on that 30% market.

Interesting. I can only speak for my own situation but I am better off due to VAT and don't charge it on purchases* to the EU; it's cross charged to the UK via my HMRC VAT submission. In fact, because of the differences between UK and Germany I get a small refund over here. I appreciate yours is sales though.

* The purchase is just me and my services but it's the same principle.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

As soon as my first business hit the VAT threshold it was a nightmare.... but from my naive point of view if I could have avoided V.A.T on all my sales to the EU I would be 20% better of on that 30% market.

Thinking about this a bit more, can't you just get yourself an EU VAT number and cross charge like me? You shouldn't lose or pay twice on taxes; this is s general principle. The obtaining of the number, and the subsequent accounting, is very simple....unless I'm missing something.

 

[brighton fella]

The way my accountant and my current business runs is, that I have to give 20% of TURNOVER not profits to any customer in the EU, so I therefore make more selling outside the EU, all my suppliers are based outside the EU. Someone put a positive on this individual situation, I am lost to vote in or out as are many[/QUOT.

it is quite simple really, if it is democracy you like and you like the chance of replacing your government every 5 year then you vote to leave, if you don't like that and would prefer to be dictated to by some un elected bureaucrat that you have absolutely no chance of ever removing through the ballot box then vote to remain in,. cant make it any more plainer than that.

 

[Gwylan]

Purchase tax was a one-off at the point of sale, not charged and then reclaimed all through the manufacture to sale process. Much simpler.

Believe me, the introduction of VAT was a friggin' nightmare at the time.

But purchase tax also attracted different rates. The example that's often given was a radiogram (note for younger readers: a cupboard that enclosed a combined radio and record player) that attracted different rates for the furniture, radio and record player, so it wasn't a simple percentage.

Records themselves attracted different rates so there wasn't a uniform charge.

It might well do but thanks to EU rules and it's aim to 'harmonise' VAT rates no British government can actually lower VAT or remove it from a product that already attracts VAT. Hence the issue they currently have with tampons.

Yes, I was talking about if we left the EU. While we wouldn't charge VAT, there would be some form of sales tax

"Pat McFadden is shadow minister for Europe ...

Not any more he's not ...

 

[jgmcdee]

it is quite simple really, if it is democracy you like and you like the chance of replacing your government every 5 year then you vote to leave, if you don't like that and would prefer to be dictated to by some un elected bureaucrat that you have absolutely no chance of ever removing through the ballot box then vote to remain in,. cant make it any more plainer than that.

Or less accurate.

The UK and EU democratic systems both have pros and cons but are broadly comparable, outside of the initial elections of MPs/MEPs where MEPs are selected through a form of proportional representation.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

The real issue is around the free movement of people, open borders, DON'T FORGET THIS FACT amongst all the media bullshit that is going on at the moment.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

The real issue is around the free movement of people, open borders, DON'T FORGET THIS FACT amongst all the media bullshit that is going on at the moment.

I'm not convinced it is. I think it's more about the economy and general stability and security.

 

[WonderingSoton]

Or less accurate.

The UK and EU democratic systems both have pros and cons but are broadly comparable, outside of the initial elections of MPs/MEPs where MEPs are selected through a form of proportional representation.

Except that's not really true is it. The MEP parliament has little power, the treaties and laws are designed and thought up by un-elected officials. Anything remotely important has to be signed off by heads of state rather than MEPs, and with heads of state you get into far bigger political / Geo-political arguments. The MEP parliament is an illusion.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Except that's not really true is it. The MEP parliament has little power, the treaties and laws are designed and thought up by un-elected officials. Anything remotely important has to be signed off by heads of state rather than MEPs, and with heads of state you get into far bigger political / Geo-political arguments. The MEP parliament is an illusion.

I don't think you fully understand what the European Commission is and how it works and why it works the way it does.