[Football] EURO 2020 Thread

[blue-shifted]

View attachment 136802

Spreadsheet attached for you all to have fun with

Sir, you have benefitted humanity by sharing that fine spreadsheet

Edit ... Belgium won

 

[crodonilson]

I think the main issue for England is that most other "top" teams are going to eat your central midfield.

I'm inclined to agree with Swansman on this one, it was what went wrong against Croatia in the WC Semis, an inability to control the game from midfield and keep the ball meaning wave after wave of pressure. If our midfield is not good enough we need to have the intelligence to be able to play smart counter attacking football (and the potential pace we have in this side is breathtaking) but i fear our other achilles heel on that front is Southgate, as nice a guy as he is I don't think he is a particularly great manager or coach. We should do well but I think the semi's is probably the limit for us, but for a bit of luck on our side.

 

[Mellotron]

I'm always wary of backing England to do well at a major tournament as more often than not they tend to let you down in spectacular fashion, but there's a strong case for us to do well at these Euros - not least that any route to the final would mean only one game away from Wembley IF we can win the group.

On the group, I've seen suggestions on here that it's a tough one but groups at most European Championships tend to look quite strong. The average FIFA rankings of our opponents is 32.7, the second lowest any top seeded team will face and compared with just 18 for France, whose group looks astonishingly tough.

As for ourselves, this squad really does look to be the best I can recall us taking into a tournament (and my memory of major tournaments ranges just about as far back as Euro 92 - a squad which included Carlton Palmer no less). We have a number of players who are almost unquestionably at the very top table in terms of ability (Kane, Sterling, Rashford, Foden) and several others who you can have a serious debate about (Sancho, Mount, Alexander-Arnold, Chilwell). You can point to weaknesses at centre half but John Stones has been a mainstay of a Man City side with a very good chance of winning the a domestic and European treble this year and for all his foibles, Harry Maguire is not a terrible player.

Few sides have won major tournaments without a great goalkeeper, and I can understand why people have suspicions of Pickford, but I actually think we have two other decent 'keepers in Henderson and Pope if Southgate can see the light.

Granted, this is quite an insular view - there are some other very good players going to be appearing at the tournament; Ronaldo, Mbappe, De Bruyne to name just a handful. But we have a good 7 or 8 players who would get into most sides in this competition as well as some significant depth beyond that, and I can't ever really remember a time where we had such a wealth of talent.

Out in the group stages it is then...

My biggest concern is the decent chance of coming up against a Germany, France or Portugal in the first knockout game.

Would love more than anything for us to win a knockout game against a big, established side. It's still something missing from our recent (and even not that recent...) history at tournaments.

 

[Poojah]

I think the main issue for England is that most other "top" teams are going to eat your central midfield.

Well, it happened in 2018 and that’s assuming you can call Croatia a top team - certainly Rakitic and Modric are / were too midfielders. Is our midfield that bad though? In my mind I see something like this:



Foden, for me, is almost world class if not there already. Rice is also developing into a very good player and Henderson is defendable off unspectacular - he has Champions League and Premier League medals of his own to his name in recent years. On top of that you’ve got the likes of Mount and Grealish, the former who could be a Champions League winner by the time the Euros begin, whilst Alexander-Arnold and Chilwell have the energy to make up for the defensive width you can lose in the middle of the park.

You’ve also got the fact that Kane up top, supported by two of Rashford, Sterling and Sancho means teams are going to have to be cautious of commuting themselves going forward. All of that assumes of course that Southgate is adventurous enough to line-up in this way.

Granted, in an ideal world you’d have an Ngolo Kante type in there somewhere, but few sides are perfect and you can’t have it all. It’s hard to look at this objectively given my rose tinted spectacles of bias, but where we are less strong I feel we make up for it in other ways. I honestly think England CAN win it, whether we do of course will depend on many other things than raw talent alone.

 

[Mellotron]

Well, it happened in 2018 and that’s assuming you can call Croatia a top team - certainly Rakitic and Modric are / were too midfielders. Is our midfield that bad though? In my mind I see something like this:

View attachment 136805

Foden, for me, is almost world class if not there already. Rice is also developing into a very good player and Henderson is defendable off unspectacular - he has Champions League and Premier League medals of his own to his name in recent years. On top of that you’ve got the likes of Mount and Grealish, the former who could be a Champions League winner by the time the Euros begin, whilst Alexander-Arnold and Chilwell have the energy to make up for the defensive width you can lose in the middle of the park.

You’ve also got the fact that Kane up top, supported by two of Rashford, Sterling and Sancho means teams are going to have to be cautious of commuting themselves going forward. All of that assumes of course that Southgate is adventurous enough to line-up in this way.

Granted, in an ideal world you’d have an Ngolo Kante type in there somewhere, but few sides are perfect and you can’t have it all. It’s hard to look at this objectively given my rose tinted spectacles of bias, but where we are less strong I feel we make up for it in other ways. I honestly think England CAN win it, whether we do of course will depend on many other things than raw talent alone.

I think it'll be this side but Foden where you've put Rashford, Mount where you've put Foden, and Walker in for Trent, who according to The Athletic today might not be making the squad at all.

Bit concerned about Henderson and Rice both just back from injuries as well, you really want your 2 DMs to be 100% match fit.

 

[Poojah]

My biggest concern is the decent chance of coming up against a Germany, France or Portugal in the first knockout game.

Would love more than anything for us to win a knockout game against a big, established side. It's still something missing from our recent (and even not that recent...) history at tournaments.

You’re absolutely bang on about beating an established side in a knockout game. I’m racking my brains trying to think of when this last happened and I’m struggling to think of one in my lifetime (36 years).

The only one I can remotely think of is Spain at Euro 96, but I’m not sure they were ‘all that’ then. Looking back at the FIFA rankings at the time they were 6th in the world, to England’s 23rd, so I think it just about qualifies, but only just and it was by no means a convincing victory either.

Some decent wins in the group stages, but we seem to lack that mental robustness when the pressure is on. And that is probably my biggest reservation about our chances next month.

 

[blue-shifted]

re central midfield.

I've no doubt we'll be playing two defensive minded central midfielders. Southgate will get a tonne of stick for it from people who don't know a lot about football. They will be there to cover the gaps from our full backs, who will be very attacking.

Rice is a certain starter. He has a month to get up to fitness. I think he will play well. I don't see Jordan Henderson making it back in time. Phillips will start alongside Rice in most games. I've got a sneaky suspicion that Bellingham will go and will edge out Ward Prowse as the next cab on the rank in CM. Doubt he'll get much game time though.

Not totally impossible Southgate tries Mount in a deeper role in selected parts of some matches. Ie if we need a goal. No way from the start though

 

[blue-shifted]

I think it will be

--------------Pickford
Walker Maguire Stones Shaw
-----------Rice Phillips
------Foden Mount Sterling
----------------Kane

With Rashford coming on in pretty much every game.

Looks like a decent side to me, that could go all the way. Could say the same about 5 others though

 

[Bakero]

My biggest concern is the decent chance of coming up against a Germany, France or Portugal in the first knockout game.

Would love more than anything for us to win a knockout game against a big, established side. It's still something missing from our recent (and even not that recent...) history at tournaments.

You just know we're smash the group, sending mojo and expectations to the moon, before crashing back to earth when we lose against Germany in the next round.

Prove me wrong, boys

 

[Swansman]

Rice and Phillips isn't the best midfield in the tournament but it's competitive.

Well, it happened in 2018 and that’s assuming you can call Croatia a top team - certainly Rakitic and Modric are / were too midfielders. Is our midfield that bad though? In my mind I see something like this:

View attachment 136805

Foden, for me, is almost world class if not there already. Rice is also developing into a very good player and Henderson is defendable off unspectacular - he has Champions League and Premier League medals of his own to his name in recent years. On top of that you’ve got the likes of Mount and Grealish, the former who could be a Champions League winner by the time the Euros begin, whilst Alexander-Arnold and Chilwell have the energy to make up for the defensive width you can lose in the middle of the park.

You’ve also got the fact that Kane up top, supported by two of Rashford, Sterling and Sancho means teams are going to have to be cautious of commuting themselves going forward. All of that assumes of course that Southgate is adventurous enough to line-up in this way.

Granted, in an ideal world you’d have an Ngolo Kante type in there somewhere, but few sides are perfect and you can’t have it all. It’s hard to look at this objectively given my rose tinted spectacles of bias, but where we are less strong I feel we make up for it in other ways. I honestly think England CAN win it, whether we do of course will depend on many other things than raw talent alone.

Its not a bad midfield. What I'm saying is that it is not as good as the top 5-8 best out there. How England manages to deal with Modric, Kovacic and Brozovic in the first game will give a decent hint of how far England could go.

 

[Poojah]

Its not a bad midfield. What I'm saying is that it is not as good as the top 5-8 best out there. How England manages to deal with Modric, Kovacic and Brozovic in the first game will give a decent hint of how far England could go.

Top five possibly, but are there eight better midfields than that at the Euros? Add to that probably the best front three and a top five back line, it’s enough to put us in the top three or four sides overall I’d say.

I do agree with you though that if we come unstuck it’s likely be be the midfield that does for us - I’m just hopeful that our firepower going forward can at least offset that to some degree and that lessons have been learned after we unravelled against Croatia at the WC.

 

[Pavilionaire]

I think we'll win our group and we might even beat the runner up of the group of death (Germany?) in the Last 16, but I have us facing Spain in the Quarter-Final, and I fancy that might be a bridge too far.

Spain to beat France in the final.

 

[blue-shifted]

Its not a bad midfield. What I'm saying is that it is not as good as the top 5-8 best out there. How England manages to deal with Modric, Kovacic and Brozovic in the first game will give a decent hint of how far England could go.

I'd expect us to deal with the Croatia midfield pretty well. I quite like Croatia, a gnarled, streetwise side. But surely their best years are behind them. Three years is a long time in international football. I certainly don't see them over-running our midfield.

 

[blue-shifted]

Top five possibly, but are there eight better midfields than that at the Euros? Add to that probably the best front three and a top five back line, it’s enough to put us in the top three or four sides overall I’d say.

I do agree with you though that if we come unstuck it’s likely be be the midfield that does for us - I’m just hopeful that our firepower going forward can at least offset that to some degree and that lessons have been learned after we unravelled against Croatia at the WC.

I'm definitely more concerned about the defence that the midfield.

Of course, Stones and Maguire can be brilliant, but they can also be god-awful. One poor defensive display is all it will take to sink us if we get to the knockout rounds.

Inconsistency rather than lack of ability is our problem

 

[Mellotron]

I think it will be

--------------Pickford
Walker Maguire Stones Shaw
-----------Rice Phillips
------Foden Mount Sterling
----------------Kane

With Rashford coming on in pretty much every game.

Looks like a decent side to me, that could go all the way. Could say the same about 5 others though

I think it’ll be this except I reckon he trusts Chilwell over Shaw.

 

[Swansman]

Top five possibly, but are there eight better midfields than that at the Euros? Add to that probably the best front three and a top five back line, it’s enough to put us in the top three or four sides overall I’d say.

I do agree with you though that if we come unstuck it’s likely be be the midfield that does for us - I’m just hopeful that our firepower going forward can at least offset that to some degree and that lessons have been learned after we unravelled against Croatia at the WC.

We'll see. France, Germany, Portugal, Spain, Croatia and Belgium all got better midfields than England imo, while Denmark, Turkey and Italy got similar levels.

I'd expect us to deal with the Croatia midfield pretty well. I quite like Croatia, a gnarled, streetwise side. But surely their best years are behind them. Three years is a long time in international football. I certainly don't see them over-running our midfield.

Rakitic is gone but Kovacic is a very good replacement. Brozovic is still only 28 and Modric might be old but still a very good player. I think you are going to struggle against them.

 

[Swansman]

Swedish squad. Zlatan Ibrahimovic out with a knee injury, unfortunately.

Målvakter:
Karl-Johan Johnsson, FC Köpenhamn
Kristoffer Nordfeldt, Genclerbirligi
Robin Olsen, Everton

Backar:
Mikael Lustig, AIK
Victor Nilsson Lindelöf, Manchester United
Andreas Granqvist, Helsingborgs IF
Martin Olsson, BK Häcken
Ludwig Augustinsson, Werder Bremen
Filip Helander, Rangers
Emil Krafth, Newcastle
Pontus Jansson, Brentford
Marcus Danielson, Dalian

Mittfältare:
Sebastian Larsson, AIK
Albin Ekdal, Sampdoria
Emil Forsberg, RB Leipzig
Gustav Svensson, Guangzhou
Ken Semam Watford
Viktor Claesson, Krasnodar
Mattias Svanberg, Bologna
Kristoffer Olsson, Krasnodar
Dejan Kulusevski, Juventus
Jens Cajuste, FC Midtjylland

Forwards:
Marcus Berg, Krasnodar
Alexander Isak, Real Sociedad
Robin Quaison, Mainz
Jordan Larsson, Spartak Moskva

 

[blue-shifted]

Swedish squad. Zlatan Ibrahimovic out with a knee injury, unfortunately.

Målvakter:
Karl-Johan Johnsson, FC Köpenhamn
Kristoffer Nordfeldt, Genclerbirligi
Robin Olsen, Everton

Backar:
Mikael Lustig, AIK
Victor Nilsson Lindelöf, Manchester United
Andreas Granqvist, Helsingborgs IF
Martin Olsson, BK Häcken
Ludwig Augustinsson, Werder Bremen
Filip Helander, Rangers
Emil Krafth, Newcastle
Pontus Jansson, Brentford
Marcus Danielson, Dalian

Mittfältare:
Sebastian Larsson, AIK
Albin Ekdal, Sampdoria
Emil Forsberg, RB Leipzig
Gustav Svensson, Guangzhou
Ken Semam Watford
Viktor Claesson, Krasnodar
Mattias Svanberg, Bologna
Kristoffer Olsson, Krasnodar
Dejan Kulusevski, Juventus
Jens Cajuste, FC Midtjylland

Forwards:
Marcus Berg, Krasnodar
Alexander Isak, Real Sociedad
Robin Quaison, Mainz
Jordan Larsson, Spartak Moskva

You've got a few there that have been around a very long time. Think you'll do well to get out of the group .... said in the nicest possible way

 

[Swansman]

You've got a few there that have been around a very long time. Think you'll do well to get out of the group .... said in the nicest possible way

Yup... its the Swedish way of building national teams whether its in football, handball, ice hockey or whatever: go with the same team for like 10-12 years. Continuity first. This will be the last journey for plenty of these.

Agree making it out of the group stage will be difficult (though could see it happen as one of the four best third placed teams). Spain is going to beat us comfortably, anything else would be remarkable. We should be able to beat Slovakia though. Key game is the last game in the group vs Poland. I think they are a bit stronger but its not entirely impossible to beat them.

 

[brighton_tom]

--------------Pickford
Trent Maguire Stones Chillwell
-----------Rice Henderson
------Foden Mount Grealish
----------------Kane

This is the team i'd like to see, with Sterling as an alternate for Grealish. Difficult to also pick which goalkeeper to go with, all 3 options are similar in quality.