EU to charge Britain more money due to success of economy....

[Herr Tubthumper]

Anyway, nice chatting. I'm off to bed.

 

[Bozza]

I have a number of views which might at first seem at odds with the classical idea of a lefty. One has to in the 21st century.

Humour me - list them. I'll be honest - I don't believe you.

 

[El Presidente]

They are required to by law .... who's law ? ..... you've got it, the EU's law ! Yes the EU wants tax from illegal activities !!!! Let's not mention that their auditors have refused to sign off their accounts for well over a decade. A criminal organisation demanding tax on criminal activities and STILL there are idiots and simpletons who think we should stay in.

You rightly criticise those who classify UKIP supporters as Little Englanders, yet you classify those who are in favour of the EU as idiots and simpletons.

Out of curiosity, do you think I'm an idiot, a simpleton, or both?

 

[The Merry Prankster]

You rightly criticise those who classify UKIP supporters as Little Englanders, yet you classify those who are in favour of the EU as idiots and simpletons.

Out of curiosity, do you think I'm an idiot, a simpleton, or both?

Knowing you slightly; I'm going both.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Humour me - list them. I'll be honest - I don't believe you.

I don't have an issue with big-business, wealth, private schools, the US and/or privilege per se. These are items which others have wrongly presumed based on my politics and a couple quite recently on this site. I would like to clarify I'm not particularly Pro any of these either; more that as long as small-business, less-wealthy, state schools and unprivileged are not impeded I don't care. I can draw an analogy with music, I don't care for X-Factor or One Direction but their presence doesn't affect the music I like and enjoy so I'm not overly bothered by them. If they did start affecting me then it would be different.

I have said before my main reason for my politics is because I believe in fairness and opportunity and whilst far from perfect I feel The Labour Party offer the best deal.

 

[cunning fergus]

I don't have an issue with big-business, wealth, private schools, the US and/or privilege per se. These are items which others have wrongly presumed based on my politics and a couple quite recently on this site. I would like to clarify I'm not particularly Pro any of these either; more that as long as small-business, less-wealthy, state schools and unprivileged are not impeded I don't care. I can draw an analogy with music, I don't care for X-Factor or One Direction but their presence doesn't affect the music I like and enjoy so I'm not overly bothered by them. If they did start affecting me then it would be different.

I have said before my main reason for my politics is because I believe in fairness and opportunity and whilst far from perfect I feel The Labour Party offer the best deal.

To be fair I think the vast majority of people possess exactly the same belief on opportunity and fairness for all regardless where they sit on the political spectrum.

The question here, and particularly with regard to the EU is.........where are the limits of that ideology.

Many people want fairness and opportunity for the British people, but NOT for ALL the people in the EU. That doesn't mean they hate those outside the UK, far from it, however the limit of responsibility is the nation state.

That is the nub of all of these debates, and the Labour Party in the last 20 years have abandoned the British people's interests to extend the concept of fairness and opportunity to people across the continent of Europe.

That is why they (and the Tories) are losing support in their natural core constituencies, despite both being at opposite ends of political and economic scales.

Your pro EU disposition naturally means that you are willing to sacrifice British interests for the greater good of all the peoples of the EU.

 

[Hyperion]

It's good that the BBC Breakfast team have chosen the right MP to interview this morning about this issue

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Your pro EU disposition naturally means that you are willing to sacrifice British interests for the greater good of all the peoples of the EU.

You are correct. But I wouldn't say sacrifice though. I feel that overall British interests are served better within the EU. I hate the term but I'm internationalist I guess.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

To be fair I think the vast majority of people possess exactly the same belief on opportunity and fairness for all regardless where they sit on the political spectrum

Fair point. Tories certainly support opportunity but i do not feel they are particularly fair with those who either choose not to be, or are unable to be, upwardly mobile. To me this is the big difference.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

So you are also calling Pat McFadden the Labour Europe Shadow Minister clueless? And you, the arch-Labour luvvie, are also calling Ed Balls clueless in this respect. Mark Rutte, the Dutch Prime Minister is also clueless? And the Italian Prime Minister who described it as a 'lethal weapon' - also clueless? And the Greek Prime Minister whose country has been right royally stiffed by Germany and the EU already and are on their knees. Also clueless.

All of them, whose day jobs are to know about these things weren't aware. But they're all clueless. 4 prime ministers, a Europe shadow minister and a shadow chancellor. Certainly the Germans weren't expecting it - one paper describes it as an early Christmas present. Are the Germans clueless too?

Clearly, the EU has sprung this. Trouble is, it's so palpably ridiculous behaviour by the EU that even you find it difficult defending the actions so all you've got is the usual anti-Cameron stuff, well-rehearsed for occasions like this. You carry on cracking jokes about Little Englanders and clueless prime ministers - there's a referendum coming soon and the ineptitude and continual high-minded inability to understand national sensitivities shown by the EU and their acolytes will surely come back to haunt them.

...And not just in Britain. How do the EU expect Greece to pay? Seriously, HT, how do they pay? Borrow more money from the EU at higher rates? Is that fair? All it will do is add thousands of votes to the likes of Golden Dawn and probably accelerate Greece's exit from the EU too. I'm amazed that you can't see just how dangerous this game that the EU are playing is to stability and democracy within Europe.

It has emerged in today's press that Treasury ministers have been aware of the exact amount for months.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

You rightly criticise those who classify UKIP supporters as Little Englanders, yet you classify those who are in favour of the EU as idiots and simpletons.

Out of curiosity, do you think I'm an idiot, a simpleton, or both?

Yes, fair point. I take that bit back.

It has emerged in today's press that Treasury ministers have been aware of the exact amount for months.

Not in the report I've just read. It says it was known a recalculation was taking place but the demand and the amount were only this week.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Not in the report I've just read. It says it was known a recalculation was taking place but the demand and the amount were only this week.

I agree the final bill was sent this week but officials have been discussing the input figures for months and it's from a formula agreed on in 2003. Maybe I'm wrong with saying they knew the exact final amount the EU would settle on but they were certainly aware that it could well be 1.7bn as they knew the formula and they obviously knew the figures they were supplying. I guess it's akin to murdering someone and being surprised when they finally sentence you to 10 years.

And as an aside it appears Osborne knew a few days before Cameron.

 

[Captain Sensible]

Let's take for example that we could fund 20 ( yes TWENTY ) new hospitals in our major cities a year from the net contribution we give the EU every year.

Lots of love, a little Englander !

Yes but they still could fund those hospitals, they choose not to. This Hospitals fund scenarios always get said when ever the government spend money on unpopular things, war, hs2 etc.
"Yeah but with that money we could build 5 more hospitals..etc".
Fact is the treasurey and I'd say Lab/Con/Lib knew about the payment increase a while ago but there was a by election and they didn't want ukip to have more ammo. But why didn't ukip know? They have a huge number of meps, Farage being one. The formula for adjusting set contributions are out there why didn't ukip work it out? Because they are a bunch of thick idiots is my guess.
I've argued this point before. The contributions to the EU are a fraction of the amount the UK recieves back from the Eurozone.
If we as the uk don't want to pay the contribution, then give the slippery Farage his wish with an in out, and if it was an out vote, then no longer pay the contributions, but also we stop getting as many billions from the Eurozone too.

 

[Buzzer]

It has emerged in today's press that Treasury ministers have been aware of the exact amount for months.

Treasury ministerS?

Do you mean Treasury officials? Unelected public servants. There's only one Treasury minister in the UK and the Guardian reports that Treasury ministers across the EU found out only a day or two before Cameron.

Back to my question please - do you think it fair that Greee should have to pay quarter of a billion pounds it clearly doesn't have to a body that can't even get its own accounts signed off knowing full well that it's going to push that country inexorably closer to voting in a far-right Government?

Or does fairness, the long picture and political and national stability only really matter when the EU is thinking of German interests?

 

[Westdene Seagull]

I've argued this point before. The contributions to the EU are a fraction of the amount the UK recieves back from the Eurozone.
If we as the uk don't want to pay the contribution, then give the slippery Farage his wish with an in out, and if it was an out vote, then no longer pay the contributions, but also we stop getting as many billions from the Eurozone too.

We are a net contributor to the EU so don't get 'billions from the Eurozone'. Unless of course you're referring to trade. Nobody has yet provided any evidence or even a convincing argument that EU members would cease to trade with us just because we leave a club.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Treasury ministerS?

Do you mean Treasury officials? Unelected public servants. There's only one Treasury minister in the UK and the Guardian reports that Treasury ministers across the EU found out only a day or two before Cameron.

Back to my question please - do you think it fair that Greee should have to pay quarter of a billion pounds it clearly doesn't have to a body that can't even get its own accounts signed off knowing full well that it's going to push that country inexorably closer to voting in a far-right Government?

Or does fairness, the long picture and political and national stability only really matter when the EU is thinking of German interests?

I answered the Greek question in #124. Sorry, meant officials or whatever the title is of the bods who sat in the Eurostat meetings over the past few months discussing the input figures.

The rest of your post is pure supposition. Will it push Greece to a far-right government? I don't think so and I have also covered this is post 146. Also guess work on my part. Time will tell.

 

[Captain Sensible]

We are a net contributor to the EU so don't get 'billions from the Eurozone'. Unless of course you're referring to trade. Nobody has yet provided any evidence or even a convincing argument that EU members would cease to trade with us just because we leave a club.

Well yes I was referring to trade. It's like paying a subscription to be allowed access to 500 million customers on favourable terms. The most convincing argument for better off in than out is cash. Money talks, and if the uk thought it wasn't getting more in GDP through being part of the EU then we would have left years ago.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Yes but they still could fund those hospitals, they choose not to. This Hospitals fund scenarios always get said when ever the government spend money on unpopular things, war, hs2 etc.
"Yeah but with that money we could build 5 more hospitals..etc".
Fact is the treasurey and I'd say Lab/Con/Lib knew about the payment increase a while ago but there was a by election and they didn't want ukip to have more ammo. But why didn't ukip know? They have a huge number of meps, Farage being one. The formula for adjusting set contributions are out there why didn't ukip work it out? Because they are a bunch of thick idiots is my guess.
I've argued this point before. The contributions to the EU are a fraction of the amount the UK recieves back from the Eurozone.
If we as the uk don't want to pay the contribution, then give the slippery Farage his wish with an in out, and if it was an out vote, then no longer pay the contributions, but also we stop getting as many billions from the Eurozone too.

We are actually a net contributor, unlike say Greece or Spain. So at face value we give more than we take. But, there are various estimates which make a strong case to suggest our overall finances are better for being in the EU.

 

[Chicken Runner61]

According to the radio this morning it was the UK that wanted to include prostitution and black market economy in to our figures and that led to the EC finance team using them in the calculation that led to the bill.


probably another of Gideon & Co massaging of statistics to make it look like they have created some economic miracle in the last few years.

 

[Insel affe]

For an idiot like me could someone please let me know if I am gonna be far off the mark with this....

Here goes....

Dave is banging his chest saying we won't pay this.....

Ultimately we have to pay it, Dave says we have negotiated a slight discount or paying in instalments something along those lines and says he did a good job on our behalf, but the end result is we pay it.

Papers latch on to this and labour and UKIP will chaptalise in the next election.

Dave is screaming for nothing, because there is nothing he can do....

Am I far off ?