EU to charge Britain more money due to success of economy....

[Captain Sensible]

We are actually a net contributor, unlike say Greece or Spain. So at face value we give more than we take. But, there are various estimates which make a strong case to suggest our overall finances are better for being in the EU.

Yes we contribute more than we receive in direct contributions. It would be a bit weird if we weren't a net contributor.
My point was that the huge trade base that the uk has on it's doorstep is worth paying the club fee for.

 

[jakarta]

Yes we contribute more than we receive in direct contributions. It would be a bit weird if we weren't a net contributor.
My point was that the huge trade base that the uk has on it's doorstep is worth paying the club fee for.

The opposing point is that this 'huge trade base' would trade with the UK in any case, just as they do with Switzerland and Norway.

 

[Soulman]

It has emerged in today's press that Treasury ministers have been aware of the exact amount for months.

Of course, i posted about 3 months ago that in early November we were about to be stitched up by the EU.

 

[Soulman]

The opposing point is that this 'huge trade base' would trade with the UK in any case, just as they do with Switzerland and Norway.

Yes, unfortunately the powers that be have hammered it home that we would be lost without the EU.

 

[Bevendean Hillbilly]

We are actually a net contributor, unlike say Greece or Spain. So at face value we give more than we take. But, there are various estimates which make a strong case to suggest our overall finances are better for being in the EU.

We? Do you mean Germany or the UK? The trite answer trotted out by the EU is that ALL members are contributors although not in fiscal terms. Spain contributes cheap sunshine for Germans and Brits and Greece contributes...err..feta cheese and yogurt. Currently the Eastern accession states are contributing manpower, cheaply, to the other richer nations

What I mean is that the European project has become a very different beast than just a trade agreement. As has been pointed out on this thread before the EU is, fundamentally, a way of stopping Europe descending into war every 10 years or so. It does this by encouraging people within the community to stop thinking of their national interests and start thinking of themselves as Europeans.

The financial crisis has shown us that this has worked. If this had happened 70 years ago we'd have armies massed on every border and various dictators rattling their sabres at each other. As it is we have an army of buerocrats in Brussels trying to ensure that everyone plays nicely and shares their sweeties.

The problem Britain has is that we are not conquerors anymore. Whilst we have become embroiled in two hugely destructive wars in the past 200 years they were, fundamentally, not our wars excepting Napoleanic france. We have had to intervene to put despots back into their boxes but then we have gone home to our islands to get on with our real business...selling stuff.

If we had had Nazi armies tearing our countries apart or Austrians sitting in our capital city ordering us about we would probably be sick of European wars too. We are undefeated militarily and have had to rely on the English speaking world to remain so and it is, therefore, difficult for us to get our heads around this deep desire that sits at the heart of Europe not to have our country utterly destroyed by war.

Germany was totally destroyed by war in 1945. Berlin was a smoking ruin and their women were being raped by Russian soldiers whilst their men were sitting in POW transit camps. France had been occupied by the Germans and developed a huge stain on their national pride by having to collaborate with their conquerors. Worse still they had to rely on the British to liberate them. Greece, likewise, Italy...humiliated and badly mauled by invaders...changing sides...just embarrassing. The Eastern Europeans had either enthusiastically joined in with the Nazis killing Jews or spent years hiding in the mountains throwing stones at the SS, the Dutch, had their very own Nazi party and ended up with their population starving to death or pressed into forced labour by the Reich. There was little national honour left for any of them.....but we were victors brought low. Bankrupt and empireless our win was a hollow one as we watched Germany, free of the cost having to keep a standing army of her own to protect her,rebuild to overtake us very quickly as the true winners of the War in financial terms.

Andrew Marr and others have wondered what the UK would have been if we were not forced to keep a massive military commitment to protect the rest of Europe from the soviets. Our economy blighted by the biggest GDP spend of any European nation on tank divisions and Nuclear missiles to keep Europe safe to lick its wounds and recover from two world wars.

Now we are wondering what it was all for. And rightly so. We didn't recieve thanks for solving the problems of European kings and empire builders. We recieved a bill and some new laws.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Yes we contribute more than we receive in direct contributions. It would be a bit weird if we weren't a net contributor.
My point was that the huge trade base that the uk has on it's doorstep is worth paying the club fee for.

True. And I totally agree with the last sentence.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

For an idiot like me could someone please let me know if I am gonna be far off the mark with this....

Here goes....

Dave is banging his chest saying we won't pay this.....

Ultimately we have to pay it, Dave says we have negotiated a slight discount or paying in instalments something along those lines and says he did a good job on our behalf, but the end result is we pay it.

Papers latch on to this and labour and UKIP will chaptalise in the next election.

Dave is screaming for nothing, because there is nothing he can do....

Am I far off ?

Probably not far off at all.

 

[Captain Sensible]

The opposing point is that this 'huge trade base' would trade with the UK in any case, just as they do with Switzerland and Norway.

The Swiss have made very large concessions to be able to trade with the EU. So much so that they have the open borders the EU insisted on.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

The opposing point is that this 'huge trade base' would trade with the UK in any case, just as they do with Switzerland and Norway.

Switzerland free trade is based on them having signed up separately to the 4 "guillotine EU clauses" of free movement though. It would be pointless for the UK to leave and then re-sign up to the issues at the very core of the UK's EU schism. This situation could change as the Swiss recently, and narrowly, voted against the free movement of labour. It's to be seen if they implement this and what action the EU takes with respect to the current smoothing of trade as you either accept all 4 or none at all. Don't be surprised if the Swiss are cut loose.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

The Swiss have made very large concessions to be able to trade with the EU. So much so that they have the open borders the EU insisted on.

Very true. I don't need to show my passport when I go to Switzerland these days. It's totally open like the Schengen Agreement.

 

[brighton fella]

I answered the Greek question in #124. Sorry, meant officials or whatever the title is of the bods who sat in the Eurostat meetings over the past few months discussing the input figures.

The rest of your post is pure supposition. Will it push Greece to a far-right government? I don't think so and I have also covered this is post 146. Also guess work on my part. Time will tell.

im interested to know for what reason you think it wouldn't push Greece to a far right government.
knowing greece already has a massive debt problem the considerate EU decides to slap another big figure on to their existing debt. the EU are playing a very dangerous game and this kind of behaviour will only fire up the anti in way of golden dawn.
I can only hope that we don't see repercussions like the last ....

 

[Hampster Gull]

I was outraged when i first read about it however after reflecting we should have known and in the scheme of things this is small beer, c£150m for each year. Need to set up repayment schedule though! Anyway, the eurocrats seem to be doing their best to rub british noses in it and i suspect this pushes us closer to exiting the club. I would prefer to stay in but do think that there needs to be a proper debate on what type of club we have joined and where it takes us. Those in brussels clearly see it as U.S.E but that not something i would vote for and suspect if put to the people in Europe openly and honestly it wouldn't get 50% support.

 

[Buzzer]

I answered the Greek question in #124.

Not really. All you've said is that they're net receiver and they'll receive money again in the future from the EU so tough titty. Greece can't pay without borrowing more money. It's patently unfair. Cruel, even.

 

[Skylar]

And where will the Government find this £1.7 Billion?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

im interested to know for what reason you think it wouldn't push Greece to a far right government.
knowing greece already has a massive debt problem the considerate EU decides to slap another big figure on to their existing debt. the EU are playing a very dangerous game and this kind of behaviour will only fire up the anti in way of golden dawn.
I can only hope that we don't see repercussions like the last ....

I have answered this already in the posts I have specified. And Mellor 3 Ward 4 mentions his, albeit anecdotal, experiences in post 144. I feel Golden Dawn are, and will remain, a noisy side story. Just like UKIP in the UK. My view is that the majority of voters favour membership of the EU. Both Cameron and UKIP are offering a referendum. If Cameron is still PM come next May and the UK votes to leave the EU in the referendum then I'll conceded I got it wrong. Same with Greece. I've heard the EU is collapsing for the past 7 years now but it's still functioning and member states are still having EU sympathetic governments voted in including Greece. The democratic mechanisms are there within each and every member state to leave but year on year no one is.

 

[Beach Hut]

And where will the Government find this £1.7 Billion?

Just add it to the deficit I assume

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Not really. All you've said is that they're net receiver and they'll receive money again in the future from the EU so tough titty. Greece can't pay without borrowing more money. It's patently unfair. Cruel, even.

I don't know the exact structure of their payments across the year and how much they have already banked in 2014 but if someone said to me I could pay 8 pounds and get a tenner in return I would not class that as unfair or cruel. Quite the opposite in fact.

 

[BigGully]

True. And I totally agree with the last sentence.

Utter tosh, no doubt you thought the same when the decision was made whether to join the Euro, you are damaged goods, your view on Europe has no credence, but my God you wouldnt know it by how loud you lot shout.

If we had had a referendum even in this generation then of course you play by those rules agreed and pay the fee's due, at least you would of agreed to some sort of Europe template that might be similar to what was then voted for, but this isnt what any of us or our parents bought into.

In 1972 ( ? ) we voted for a common market a trading block with some common values, but since then NO-ONE has consulted the British people.

Europhiles will use the cheap view that by voting for any of the three main parties in my lifetime offered a voice, utter rubbish of course.

This is an example of another Euro socialist agenda that we are being told we have no choice but to adher to, you that perhaps hold a socialist view have no problem with the unaccountability of it all, after all it delivers what you want, so you scurry around disparaging others contrary views.

Its not fair, its not what my parents or I voted for and from here it all looks totally flawed, I want a vote, I dont want to be represented by gravy train MEP's anymore, too much time too much over generous expense accounts telling me why they should take mine and yours money.

Absolutely not.

 

[Buzzer]

I don't know the exact structure of their payments across the year and how much they have already banked in 2014 but if someone said to me I could pay 8 pounds and get a tenner in return I would not class that as unfair or cruel. Quite the opposite in fact.

You know it doesn't work like that. Greece has been forced by the EU to borrow money it can't afford to repay due to buying French and German goods it didn't want. Greece is on its knees. Everyone knows it can't afford to pay this late demand for more money and sure as hell, Greece needs that money far more than Germany or France right now. . Your comparison doesn't factor in a million other different parameters.

By the way, the opposite of cruel is compassionate. I wouldn't call demanding that a bankrupt nation pay quarter of a billions within a month compassionate. I think schadenfreude is more apt.

 

[Buzzer]

Actually a better comparison is like someone being asked by Social Security to repay overpaid benefits. Would you consider it fair to demand a £1000 from a family on the dole because of a cock-up in calculations going back 20 years and repay within a month? I mean, they'll receive benefits in the future so what's the problem?

Bloody ingrates.