[Politics] ** EU Elections Poll ** - The vote that we never thought we would get!

[birthofanorange]

Maybe something that hasn't been done before......erm….Remain or Leave?

Phase 2 of the best of 3.

Isn't possible.....who says?

3 years (and counting) says. So I ask (politely) what do you suggest, if a deal isn't forthcoming? Leave with No Deal? As you said, it sounds awful...and will most likely prove to be.

 

[Baker lite]

How that negotiated deal coming on?

It’s not, it appears dead in the water, but that is what the EU have offered us, so, it’s the deal that the EU offered or no deal.

 

[birthofanorange]

It’s not, it appears dead in the water, but that is what the EU have offered us, so, it’s the deal that the EU offered or no deal.

No Deal isn't really viable and the deal is voted against by Brexiteers....and so it continues.

And when you say 'us'....how so? I thought you'd already left?

 

[daveinplzen]

show me anything you bang on about to be right ..............
regards
DR

Run Forrest

 

[Greg Bobkin]

don't give up
regards
DR

ok mate

 

[daveinplzen]

Not the most flexible bunch to negotiate with, I'm sure you'll agree.


Can't imagine why we might want 'out'.

Yeah, ********...sticking to the rules we helped to draft.
Seriously, I wonder whats wrong with leavers sometimes. May got a 'deal'... rabid Brexiteers rejected it. Where does this flexibility issue lie do you think?

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Remain or Leave (with No Deal) is a binary choice.

Leaving with a deal is/has/and may continue to prove impossible. So what options are left, other than Remain or Leave (with no deal), which, as you say, might exclude the Leavers who wish to leave with this elusive 'deal'?

It’s a binary choice but it excludes many people in this debate. I could equally argue that we have voted to leave so any new referendum should be May’s deal or no deal. The Remainer Speaker in Parliament is quite fond of the idea that previous votes should not be re run once voted upon.
The other option we have is the Labour Party position of calling a General Election where (with minds very much focused on this issue) we get a Parliament that actually reflects the views of the country on Brexit to replace the current Remainer Parliament. We may then get politicians who are prepared to negotiate in good faith on behalf of the people.

 

[birthofanorange]

It’s a binary choice but it excludes many people in this debate. I could equally argue that we have voted to leave so any new referendum should be May’s deal or no deal. The Remainer Speaker in Parliament is quite fond of the idea that previous votes should not be re run once voted upon.
The other option we have is the Labour Party position of calling a General Election where (with minds very much focused on this issue) we get a Parliament that actually reflects the views of the country on Brexit to replace the current Remainer Parliament. We may then get politicians who are prepared to negotiate in good faith on behalf of the people.

I assume you mean reflects the views of the country in 2016? Are you so sure that's the case now, in 2019?

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Yeah, ********...sticking to the rules we helped to draft.
Seriously, I wonder whats wrong with leavers sometimes. May got a 'deal'... rabid Brexiteers rejected it. Where does this flexibility issue lie do you think?

Mrs May negotiated a deal that does not actually take us out of the EU. It is really not difficult to understand the reasons it was unacceptable. Mrs May voted Remain.

 

[birthofanorange]

Mrs May negotiated a deal that does not actually take us out of the EU. It is really not difficult to understand the reasons it was unacceptable. Mrs May voted Remain.

So who would you recommend to get us this elusive 'easiest deal in history/best deal for the the UK'? Please don't suggest Farridge, as you know that's ridiculous.

 

[daveinplzen]

Mrs May negotiated a deal that does not actually take us out of the EU. It is really not difficult to understand the reasons it was unacceptable. Mrs May voted Remain.

Yeah, that pesky Good Friday Agreement, but hey, whose fault is it, that nobody thought this sort of thing through before embarking on this cluster**** aka the easiest deal in history.

 

[nicko31]

Yeah, that pesky Good Friday Agreement, but hey, whose fault is it, that nobody thought this sort of thing through before embarking on this cluster**** aka the easiest deal in history.

We break that and try making a deal with the US, nice trade surplus right now as well

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

I assume you mean reflects the views of the country in 2016? Are you so sure that's the case now, in 2019?

Neither of us can be sure. The claims on both sides are wishful thinking. However we return to my original question on the frequency of these referendums and who decides that enough has changed to hold a new one. There is no mechanism for this so we will enter a phase of multiple votes as each losing side refuses to accept the result in the hope of getting a re-run. A second referendum will not settle the issue in the way you imagine.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

So who would you recommend to get us this elusive 'easiest deal in history/best deal for the the UK'? Please don't suggest Farridge, as you know that's ridiculous.

Someone who actually wishes to leave the EU.

 

[WATFORD zero]

It’s only proved impossible because the Tory establishment installed a Remain PM to do the negotiating. Your proposed referendum choices would not be approved by the Electoral Commission because it would exclude the large number of Leave voters who would like to leave with a deal that is not a betrayal of their vote.

I'm assuming that this deal that a large number of leave voters would like doesn't include a customs union as this is the 'betrayal of their vote' ?

So if it isn't a deal with a customs union or 'no deal' with a border in NI either, I'm really interested to know how this deal would work whilst getting the EU to agree that it still protects their single market.

And if you can, then you will have found the solution that no one in Government, from either side, has managed to find in the last 3 years. I'm certainly excited that this solution could free up the complete impasse of the last 3 years.

Any chance of a brief outline of how it would work

 

[birthofanorange]

Neither of us can be sure. The claims on both sides are wishful thinking. However we return to my original question on the frequency of these referendums and who decides that enough has changed to hold a new one. There is no mechanism for this so we will enter a phase of multiple votes as each losing side refuses to accept the result in the hope of getting a re-run. A second referendum will not settle the issue in the way you imagine.

I agree, there IS uncertainty on both sides, hence the need for a second referendum, to see whether it can (or cannot) help the issue.

There really isn't a definite desire to Leave. I think we all agree it's of utmost importance to get it right, surely?

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Yeah, that pesky Good Friday Agreement, but hey, whose fault is it, that nobody thought this sort of thing through before embarking on this cluster**** aka the easiest deal in history.

This has been done to death on here. There are perfectly acceptable ways to manage the Irish border that do not involve a hard border or potentially ceding economic control of NI to the EU. Don’t forget it was actually Theresa May who wanted the backstop incorporated into the deal. I have a lot of respect for many pro EU arguments on issues such as the environment and workers rights but this isn’t one of them.

 

[WATFORD zero]

This has been done to death on here. There are perfectly acceptable ways to manage the Irish border that do not involve a hard border or potentially ceding economic control of NI to the EU. Don’t forget it was actually Theresa May who wanted the backstop incorporated into the deal. I have a lot of respect for many pro EU arguments on issues such as the environment and workers rights but this isn’t one of them.

Can you give an example of these perfectly acceptable ways of managing the Irish border without a hard border or Customs Union, because nobody has managed to come up with a method so far that protects the EUs single market ? And this would be the absolute Holy Grail to Brexiteers, so how come none of them have managed to come up with a solution in over 3 years ?

(I don't know why you mention the backstop as it is just another name kicking the decision on the customs union back 2 years).

 

[birthofanorange]

This has been done to death on here. There are perfectly acceptable ways to manage the Irish border that do not involve a hard border or potentially ceding economic control of NI to the EU. Don’t forget it was actually Theresa May who wanted the backstop incorporated into the deal. I have a lot of respect for many pro EU arguments on issues such as the environment and workers rights but this isn’t one of them.

As you seem to be a reasonable person to converse with, may I ask what you feel are some of the benefits of Leaving actually are? Have you ever felt that your life has (so far) been adversely affected/impacted by being in the EU? Do you feel that we are being 'controlled', in the way that PPF seems to feel?

 

[beorhthelm]

Who knew that unelected EU bureaucrats actually get elected?

we had a vote on the parliament that discusses the proposals put forward by the bureaucrats.