[Politics] ** EU Elections Poll ** - The vote that we never thought we would get!

[Baker lite]

No Deal isn't really viable and the deal is voted against by Brexiteers....and so it continues.

And when you say 'us'....how so? I thought you'd already left?

I’m no longer a citizen of the EU, that is correct.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

I'm assuming that this deal that a large number of leave voters would like doesn't include a customs union as this is the 'betrayal of their vote' ?

So if it isn't a deal with a customs union or 'no deal' with a border in NI either, I'm really interested to know how this deal would work whilst getting the EU to agree that it still protects their single market.

And if you can, then you will have found the solution that no one in Government, from either side, has managed to find in the last 3 years. I'm certainly excited that this solution could free up the complete impasse of the last 3 years.

Any chance of a brief outline of how it would work

First we need to pass the Withdrawal Act with a temporary extension of current terms. Then we need to negotiate with the EU backed up by a Parliament that reflects the views of the nation (ie we need a GE) and a PM who actually wants to leave. Then we will no longer be constrained by the people who lost the referendum. I’m sure you delight in ‘the mess we are in’ but it is one created by the Tory establishment and their big business vested interests.

 

[WATFORD zero]

First we need to pass the Withdrawal Act with a temporary extension of current terms. Then we need to negotiate with the EU backed up by a Parliament that reflects the views of the nation (ie we need a GE) and a PM who actually wants to leave. Then we will no longer be constrained by the people who lost the referendum. I’m sure you delight in ‘the mess we are in’ but it is one created by the Tory establishment and their big business vested interests.

So does this mean you can't explain how this Ireland border solution would work ?

I am a little confused that you have said that there are perfectly acceptable solutions but can't explain what they are.

 

[beorhthelm]

If you take that as gospel, then you also have to accept that we would be leaving with a deal, and remaining in the customs union. After all, representatives of the Government in power confirmed as much. We also know that No Deal has never been - and will never be - an option. Tories promised a smooth, orderly Brexit in their latest election manifesto, so if that can't be delivered, we may have to cancel Brexit. They never promised Brexit at any cost.

#mentalgymnastics

shame the politicans can boil it down to this and chose either accept the deal or cancel.

 

[birthofanorange]

I’m no longer a citizen of the EU, that is correct.

Cool. So this thread and the outcome of the Brexit vote is of no concern to you.

On your way.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

So does this mean you can't explain how it would work ?

I am a little confused that you have said that there are perfectly acceptable solutions but can't explain what they are.

you're always confused , NOTHING that you go on about has been proven as with a few others on here its all speculation , i guess you and Dave in the EU could always give the Government a helping hand as you seem to know it all , how did your vote go last week BTW ?
regards
DR

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Can you give an example of these perfectly acceptable ways of managing the Irish border without a hard border or Customs Union, because nobody has managed to come up with a method so far that protects the EUs single market ? And this would be the absolute Holy Grail to Brexiteers, so how come none of them have managed to come up with a solution in over 3 years ?

(I don't know why you mention the backstop as it is just another name kicking the decision on the customs union back 2 years).

Yes, have a ‘soft border’ with random checks as required by officials on both sides. This is an artificial argument and unlike you I do not accept Theresa May’s argument that there is no alternative.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Cool. So this thread and the outcome of the Brexit vote is of no concern to you.

On your way.

that's the spirit
regards
DR

 

[birthofanorange]

that's the spirit
regards
DR

Ooh, I'm glad you're back, as I meant to ask you what you're most looking forward to, benefit-wise, by leaving the EU. Which controls will you be happy to be freed from?

 

[WATFORD zero]

Yes, have a ‘soft border’ with random checks as required by officials on both sides. This is an artificial argument and unlike you I do not accept Theresa May’s argument that there is no alternative.

If it were that simple, why do you think it hasn't been 'proposed' by one of the many flavours of Brexiteer ?

I'm sorry but 'random' checks will not protect any aspect of the EU's single market, which they have worked long and hard to build and, unsurprisingly, want to protect. It is not something 'made up' by Theresa May, having a border and customs is a requirement, if you want to trade as a 3rd party (outside of a customs union) with the world's largest economic trading bloc. (As it is also with the WTO unless you operate free trade with the whole world under 'preferred nation' ).

I don't wish to appear patronising but if you really believe that is a solution you need to read up and understand what the single market is that the EU is protecting. It may also be worth spending some time on the Good Friday Agreement.

Despite what you were told prior to the referendum, there are only 2 ways to implement Leave.

Customs Union or 'No deal' and Irish border.

Any 'good deal' somewhere in the middle of those is simply an unimplementable fantasy, as the last 3 years has proven. And changing PM won't change these basic facts.

And that is the real reason why we still haven't left

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Ooh, I'm glad you're back, as I meant to ask you what you're most looking forward to, benefit-wise, by leaving the EU. Which controls will you be happy to be freed from?

agriculture , fisheries , the environment , some of our laws to name a few, hope that helps
regards
DR

 

[birthofanorange]

agriculture , fisheries , the environment , some of our laws to name a few, hope that helps
regards
DR

It does, thanks. Not too sure in what way, but if you think so, far be it from me to argue.

(Not too sure what you mean by the 'environment' or which of 'our Laws' you mean, but hey ho. )

 

[daveinplzen]

you're always confused , NOTHING that you go on about has been proven as with a few others on here its all speculation , i guess you and Dave in the EU could always give the Government a helping hand as you seem to know it all , how did your vote go last week BTW ?
regards
DR

I most certainly dont know it all my little dingbat, but I can use my eyes, and ears (without sticking my fingers in them and singing nahnahninana)

The Pound IS down.
International Corporations ARE moving their HQs to the mainland.
Jobs ARE being lost in the Auto, Aircraft, and Steel Industry.
Turns out the German auto industry DIDNT need us more than we needed them.
Leaving with a NO Deal, WOULD be catastrophic for the country, even Ministers agree.
You CANNOT just replicate current trade deals. If we could, where are they? I would have thought we would have more than Chile, and Switzerland on the books.
People around the world ARE laughing at the UK.
The nation thanks people like YOU for it.
My vote was one of the MAJORITY of votes cast.

 

[Baker lite]

Cool. So this thread and the outcome of the Brexit vote is of no concern to you.

On your way.

No LOL this time?..

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

So does this mean you can't explain how this Ireland border solution would work ?

I am a little confused that you have said that there are perfectly acceptable solutions but can't explain what they are.

Perhaps do your own research ? By continually denying that there is any alternative to the Tory deal you are making yourself look a little silly.

 

[birthofanorange]

No LOL this time?..

You got a What more do you need?

 

[WATFORD zero]

Perhaps do your own research ? By continually denying that there is any alternative to the Tory deal you are making yourself look a little silly.

I have to say, I am feeling a little silly not having spotted the obvious 'soft border and everyone does whatever they want' solution to the Irish border.

You're onto a winner there. That'll solve Brexit. You just need to email Boris now with the solution

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

As you seem to be a reasonable person to converse with, may I ask what you feel are some of the benefits of Leaving actually are? Have you ever felt that your life has (so far) been adversely affected/impacted by being in the EU? Do you feel that we are being 'controlled', in the way that PPF seems to feel?

Likewise, nice to chat with someone who isn’t permanently angry. Up here in Norfolk I do not feel controlled by London or Brussels so I am quite a long way from the views of ppf.
My economic views are left of centre so I voted leave as I do not feel that compatible with the capitalist institution of the EU. In particular the unfettered movement of capital across borders puts workers at a disadvantage. The Euro (which is the ultimate destination currency of all EU members) creates enormous inequality as it underprices the exports of rich nations and overprices those of the poor southern nations. This system should be allied with a redistribution system of transfer payments but the selfishness at the heart of the project prevents this from happening.

 

[beorhthelm]

Likewise, nice to chat with someone who isn’t permanently angry. Up here in Norfolk I do not feel controlled by London or Brussels so I am quite a long way from the views of ppf.
My economic views are left of centre so I voted leave as I do not feel that compatible with the capitalist institution of the EU. In particular the unfettered movement of capital across borders puts workers at a disadvantage. The Euro (which is the ultimate destination currency of all EU members) creates enormous inequality as it underprices the exports of rich nations and overprices those of the poor southern nations. This system should be allied with a redistribution system of transfer payments but the selfishness at the heart of the project prevents this from happening.

its just political will holding back central fiscal policies, its in the long term roadmap. we already have some with VAT.

 

[birthofanorange]

Likewise, nice to chat with someone who isn’t permanently angry. Up here in Norfolk I do not feel controlled by London or Brussels so I am quite a long way from the views of ppf.
My economic views are left of centre so I voted leave as I do not feel that compatible with the capitalist institution of the EU. In particular the unfettered movement of capital across borders puts workers at a disadvantage. The Euro (which is the ultimate destination currency of all EU members) creates enormous inequality as it underprices the exports of rich nations and overprices those of the poor southern nations. This system should be allied with a redistribution system of transfer payments but the selfishness at the heart of the project prevents this from happening.

Thanks for the reasonable and polite reply.

I have to disagree on certain points (obviously), as I believe the EU actually increases the rights of workers, and the Euro is certainly not 'our' final destination unless we want it to be.
That may well happen, at some point in the future...perhaps...but it will be of our choosing, not foisted upon us.
As for the capitalist nature of the EU, you cannot escape it here, neither in the south east or Norfolk.
But I respect your view, nonetheless.

May I also ask what you personally believe, will be the benefit/s to the country (as a whole) by leaving?