[News] Enid Blyton, classed as xenophobic.

[Klaas]

And possibly supported peadophiles. She did have a character called Mr Pink-Whistle who hung around children's playgrounds. One of the stories was called "Mr Pink-Whistle interferes". To be fair though I don't think it was actually about child abuse.

I assumed this was a joke when I read it. How wrong I was! (I'm not suggesting EB condoned child abuse before the usual suspects blow a gasket)

 

[Bakero]

She lived through 2 world wars and intense xenophobic propaganda campaigns. It would be more of a surprise if she didn't have those attitudes. We weren't supposed to like foreigners especially Germans back then.

Given that she sold millions of books and was born before the Suffragette movement started I can't imagine that success came to those who were sweetness and light either.

Who knows if she was born today if she'd have been a wokey? We are all products of our environment.

On the English Heritage website it mentions that her works have been criticised for racism, xenophobia and a lack of literary merit. Then says

"Others have argued that while these charges can’t be dismissed, her work still played a vital role in encouraging a generation of children to read."

Do you think it needs another line adding "What's more, everyone was a bit racist in those days so we shouldn't be too hard on her". Trouble is many writers produced work during that period that wasn't so problematic.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Absolutely, l was bought up on Noddy, Big Ears, PC Plod, the Famous Five, Secret Seven et al.

A sad day indeed.

Racist.

 

[Iggle Piggle]

On the English Heritage website it mentions that her works have been criticised for racism, xenophobia and a lack of literary merit. Then says

"Others have argued that while these charges can’t be dismissed, her work still played a vital role in encouraging a generation of children to read."

Do you think it needs another line adding "What's more, everyone was a bit racist in those days so we shouldn't be too hard on her". Trouble is many writers produced work during that period that wasn't so problematic.

If you lived during WW1 and WW2 the idea was that you were Xenophobic. She was highly unlikely to produce the seminal work "Five go off to the BLM protest" during this time. Xenophobia was encouraged, Churchill, for instance, hardly wanted your average Jo feeling sorry for the 25000 residents of Dresden who died during the carpet bombing.

Its the same principle as I've cut some slack to ex military people who are bit homophobic. Given it was illegal to be gay in the services, you would be dismissed if found out and personnel were encouraged to shop anyone they suspected as recently as Blairs government, Is it any surprise that they are unable to shed such conditioning if they had 20 or so years being told something completely different? We can look back and see these things are wrong but we have become too judgey on some of the people who lived through it in my opinion.

Anyway, I've got to go and read Mr Pink Whistle interferes. It looks like a banger.

 

[BN9 BHA]

I assumed this was a joke when I read it. How wrong I was! (I'm not suggesting EB condoned child abuse before the usual suspects blow a gasket)

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Definitely a nonce

 

[T.G]

If we judged all historical figures by the morals of today, then there would be no great people in history left.

Or perhaps greater recognition for the great people who were forward thinking Pankhurst, MLK etc

 

[vagabond]

If you lived during WW1 and WW2 the idea was that you were Xenophobic. She was highly unlikely to produce the seminal work "Five go off to the BLM protest" during this time. Xenophobia was encouraged, Churchill, for instance, hardly wanted your average Jo feeling sorry for the 25000 residents of Dresden who died during the carpet bombing.

Its the same principle as I've cut some slack to ex military people who are bit homophobic. Given it was illegal to be gay in the services, you would be dismissed if found out and personnel were encouraged to shop anyone they suspected as recently as Blairs government, Is it any surprise that they are unable to shed such conditioning if they had 20 or so years being told something completely different? We can look back and see these things are wrong but we have become too judgey on some of the people who lived through it in my opinion.

Anyway, I've got to go and read Mr Pink Whistle interferes. It looks like a banger.

Absolutely spot on.

There’s a level of nuance missing from these wider discussions (not just here) that is always missing.

“Omg Enid Blyton woz racist”.

Actually. You’re judging someone born a hundred or so years ago by contemporary values. There are of course going to be differences. Kids born 100 years from now will think the same of us.

Truth is Enid’s entire generation held some of these racist values. Many have had a discussion with their grandparents and heard a slightly poor taste comment or joke. If you want to demonise Enid Blyton go for it, if it makes you feel better. But maybe look at the entire generation.

 

[Live by the sea]

Loved Billy Bunter as well as famous five. Don’t tell me that’s fattiest !

 

[BadFish]

Absolutely spot on.

There’s a level of nuance missing from these wider discussions (not just here) that is always missing.

“Omg Enid Blyton woz racist”.

Actually. You’re judging someone born a hundred or so years ago by contemporary values. There are of course going to be differences. Kids born 100 years from now will think the same of us.

Truth is Enid’s entire generation held some of these racist values. Many have had a discussion with their grandparents and heard a slightly poor taste comment or joke. If you want to demonise Enid Blyton go for it, if it makes you feel better. But maybe look at the entire generation.

Has anyone demonised her though? It appears that all that has happened is that someone has added a note to a webpage that her work was and is considered xenophobic etc.

Nothing has been banned, no one has been cancelled and nothing has been said that is inaccurate.

I am struggling to see what all the fuss is about.

 

[Zebedee]

Unlikely that you will ever get the job for Tampax, but plenty of white middle aged men in the TV ads, they do reflect the make up of our society, maybe you just live in a White middle class ghetto, so you don't realise, but we have black people living here too now, not just in the colonies, and some women even go to work full time these days.

TV adverts don't reflect the make up of our society because they do not reflect the proportionate ethnic make up of our society. That's a fact and anyone who watches TV will testify to that if they observe a full range of adverts carefully enough. I checked an hour's worth of adverts last week and the ratio was around 70/30 in that time rather than the 20/80 that I would have expected given the make up of modern day Britain.

 

[Bakero]

Absolutely spot on.

There’s a level of nuance missing from these wider discussions (not just here) that is always missing.

“Omg Enid Blyton woz racist”.

Actually. You’re judging someone born a hundred or so years ago by contemporary values. There are of course going to be differences. Kids born 100 years from now will think the same of us.

Truth is Enid’s entire generation held some of these racist values. Many have had a discussion with their grandparents and heard a slightly poor taste comment or joke. If you want to demonise Enid Blyton go for it, if it makes you feel better. But maybe look at the entire generation.

I think you've missed the point.

 

[Beanstalk]

Absolutely spot on.

There’s a level of nuance missing from these wider discussions (not just here) that is always missing.

“Omg Enid Blyton woz racist”.

Actually. You’re judging someone born a hundred or so years ago by contemporary values. There are of course going to be differences. Kids born 100 years from now will think the same of us.

Truth is Enid’s entire generation held some of these racist values. Many have had a discussion with their grandparents and heard a slightly poor taste comment or joke. If you want to demonise Enid Blyton go for it, if it makes you feel better. But maybe look at the entire generation.

Actually, saying that we shouldn't judge people by todays standards and then dismissing the criticism levied at her at the time is missing the nuance in this particular argument. She was dropped by her publisher, Pan Macmillan, at the height of her fame in 1960, for writing the manuscript for The Mystery That Never Was due to it's xenophobic content. So, even in her time, her views did not line up with what was deemed acceptable on a publishable level (and as someone who works in publishing, there is not a lot that is deemed unacceptable, even today).

No one is saying that her books should be banned or that people don't/didn't enjoy them. As with literally every piece of literature, critical analysis of work is really important. We have no issue discussing Shakespeare's anti-Semitic representations in The Merchant of Venice or racism in Joseph Conrad's Heart of Darkness. Why are the very founded criticisms of a writer suddenly a "woke/rewriting of history" issue?

This whole argument is around English Heritage adding (not taking anything away) a section to her profile that gives a more rounded, historically accurate view that is entirely fact-based. There is literally not one iota of content in the new section that is opinion or judging her by today's standards.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

TV adverts don't reflect the make up of our society because they do not reflect the proportionate ethnic make up of our society. That's a fact and anyone who watches TV will testify to that if they observe a full range of adverts carefully enough. I checked an hour's worth of adverts last week and the ratio was around 70/30 in that time rather than the 20/80 that I would have expected given the make up of modern day Britain.

As I said yesterday, there will be a reason related to maximising sales. You may think it is actually a BLM conspiracy but I think you may be mistaken.

And as I also said yesterday, if this is your primary example of things 'having gone too far' you're rather clutching at straws.

I'm surprised, actually that you haven't complained that there is a disproportionate number of black people playing football in the EPL.

And whatabout all those black nurses in the hospital where I work? It really is too much, isn't it?

Yet I assume you're relaxed about homosexuals being over represented in the acting profession. That's a bit two faced isn't it?

It surely must be an issue to note if your main arbiter of appropriate is 'everything in proportion'.

Or have you perhaps not thought this one through?

 

[Saladpack Seagull]

Guy Gibson should be removed from all WW2 history books and his medals returned, because his dog was named n*gger.

My mate's Mum had a cat called that. When he pointed out that this wasn't really acceptable, and that calling it in at night was a bit embarrassing, she agreed to change the name to Bl*ckie! Bless her, she was a lovely lady but, like my Mum, completely unaware of any offence which might have been caused!

 

[hans kraay fan club]

I'm getting heartily sick of people acting like it's pervading everything in this country.

This

 

[Bakero]

As I said yesterday, there will be a reason related to maximising sales. You may think it is actually a BLM conspiracy but I think you may be mistaken.

And as I also said yesterday, if this is your primary example of things 'having gone too far' you're rather clutching at straws.

I'm surprised, actually that you haven't complained that there is a disproportionate number of black people playing football in the EPL.

And whatabout all those black nurses in the hospital where I work? It really is too much, isn't it?

Yet I assume you're relaxed about homosexuals being over represented in the acting profession. That's a bit two faced isn't it?

It surely must be an issue to note if your main arbiter of appropriate is 'everything in proportion'.

Or have you perhaps not thought this one through?

The big question is why would someone get riled up by a black family in an advert for Rice Crispies?

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

The big question is why would someone get riled up by a black family in an advert for Rice Crispies?

Quite. Baffling

 

[sydney]

nuance just turns me the **** off.......nuance...?? really ? awareness yes , nuance meh..!

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Actually, saying that we shouldn't judge people by todays standards and then dismissing the criticism levied at her at the time is missing the nuance in this particular argument. She was dropped by her publisher, Pan Macmillan, at the height of her fame in 1960, for writing the manuscript for The Mystery That Never Was due to it's xenophobic content. So, even in her time, her views did not line up with what was deemed acceptable on a publishable level (and as someone who works in publishing, there is not a lot that is deemed unacceptable, even today).

No one is saying that her books should be banned or that people don't/didn't enjoy them. As with literally every piece of literature, critical analysis of work is really important. We have no issue discussing Shakespeare's anti-Semitic representations in The Merchant of Venice or racism in Joseph Conrad's Heart of Darkness. Why are the very founded criticisms of a writer suddenly a "woke/rewriting of history" issue?

This whole argument is around English Heritage adding (not taking anything away) a section to her profile that gives a more rounded, historically accurate view that is entirely fact-based. There is literally not one iota of content in the new section that is opinion or judging her by today's standards.

This thread is an absolute classic for smoking out people's unconscious (or in some cases conscious) bias. Why let the facts get in the way of a good old gammony narrative, eh?

 

[sydney]

I assumed this was a joke when I read it. How wrong I was! (I'm not suggesting EB condoned child abuse before the usual suspects blow a gasket)

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it was what it was in those days no..? he hasn't got his whistle out or anything has he..? don't you think this is a a tad overwrought..?