[Albion] Enciso -keep, sell or loan?

[Uh_huh_him]

Absolutely! Off the top of my head there was the time he rolled the ball to the side to set up a shot and a defender just dribbled off with it. Then the time he misplaced a ten yard pass that ended up out of play for a throw-in.
He has never been great in possession. He will get better as he develops, I really do think that.

And yet had more attempts on target than any other player + one that hit the post
Football isn't just about pass percentages.

 

[American Seagle]

And yet had more attempts on target than any other player + one that hit the post
Football isn't just about pass percentages.

When did I say it was!? It's not about taking pot shots from any angle and distance either.
All I have said is he needs to balance his play a bit more.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

When did I say it was!? It's not about taking pot shots from any angle and distance either.
All I have said is he needs to balance his play a bit more.

He hits the target more often than anyone else.
It's what he does best.
He's a genuine threat, when he takes a shot.
Every other player we have does the same thing, waits for a better opportunity.

When we are playing against a low block, we need a player who will do something different.
He is that guy.
Making him like the rest of our players, is not valuable to us, or him.

 

[American Seagle]

He hits the target more often than anyone else.
It's what he does best.
He's a genuine threat, when he takes a shot.
Every other player we have does the same thing, waits for a better opportunity.

When we are playing against a low block, we need a player who will do something different.
He is that guy.
Making him like the rest of our players, is not valuable to us, or him.

When did I say make him like everyone else!?

 

[Uh_huh_him]

When did I say make him like everyone else!?

"When did I say" seems to be your only answer..

 

[American Seagle]

"When did I say" seems to be your only answer..

Well to take a leaf from your book: making Enciso dress up in a giraffe outfit is never going to help us beat teams. He needs to be wearing the proper attire!

 

[Uh_huh_him]

Well to take a leaf from your book: making Enciso dress up in a giraffe outfit is never going to help us beat teams. He needs to be wearing the proper attire!

ok mate

 

[Bold Seagull]

Mmm. Not sure he

a) does need encouragement.

and

b) there’s shooting with a reasonable chance of scoring, and there’s shooting from areas with a very low statistical success rate, but having the self-belief of Zlatan on marching powder and doing it anyway. (FWIW I enjoyed the fact he was so aggressive in his approach, but we can’t say it was effective, however much we applaud the effort - goals will come though)

I understand the frustration re: attacking play atm, we’ve had periods of it under Potter, RDZ and now Fab, but the attacking players are being told (correctly) that where the choice is between attempt an unlikely worldie or recycle the ball and try again, the right option is to move the ball back and then try again.

Eventually Fab will realise just how many goals in the PL come down to pace and not allowing defenders the time to organize, and will adjust what he asks the players to do, but all our PL era managers who didn’t have prior PL experience have struggled with this bit, they’ve all come good eventually.

As for Enciso, keep him if he’s genuinely ready to keep working, and learn some lessons. Loan him if he wants a second opinion. Sell him if he’s going to continue his social media nonsense and be disruptive.

I don’t disagree, but when confidence and belief are low, instruction to recycle unless your sure becomes amplified and then once frustration builds players then end up shooting when they shouldn’t and vice versa.

I didn’t think Enciso had many wild shots on Friday? Second half even when we had some shots fly high and wide I was happy that at least we were increasing our attempts on goal.

This season teams that move the ball forward at pace are flourishing whereas those who seek greater possession and build-up; us, City, Spurs etc are struggling. Teams are pressing high but also getting narrow and low blocking very quickly.

 

[chickens]

I don’t disagree, but when confidence and belief are low, instruction to recycle unless your sure becomes amplified and then once frustration builds players then end up shooting when they shouldn’t and vice versa.

I didn’t think Enciso had many wild shots on Friday? Second half even when we had some shots fly high and wide I was happy that at least we were increasing our attempts on goal.

This season teams that move the ball forward at pace are flourishing whereas those who seek greater possession and build-up; us, City, Spurs etc are struggling. Teams are pressing high but also getting narrow and low blocking very quickly.

I think we’re largely in agreement. And yes, perhaps it is that we become shot shy when our confidence is low. Your last paragraph in particular resonates.

Man City of the past always had someone who could play a killer pass to find a player and bypass the opposition, they either don’t have such a player (in form at least) now, or PL defences have got wise to them.

Liverpool always relied far more on breaking fast (either with an individual or in numbers) and they don’t seem to have lost their potency. I’m hoping Fab comes quite quickly to the importance of pace and not allowing defences time to organize, but time will tell. We’ve been here before with Potter and RDZ.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

I think we’re largely in agreement. And yes, perhaps it is that we become shot shy when our confidence is low. Your last paragraph in particular resonates.

Man City of the past always had someone who could play a killer pass to find a player and bypass the opposition, they either don’t have such a player (in form at least) now, or PL defences have got wise to them.

Liverpool always relied far more on breaking fast (either with an individual or in numbers) and they don’t seem to have lost their potency. I’m hoping Fab comes quite quickly to the importance of pace and not allowing defences time to organize, but time will tell. We’ve been here before with Potter and RDZ.

To be truly effective in counter attacking play you need multiple players attacking at pace.
Where is the pace going to come from?

Mitoma's acceleration over 10 yards is awesome, but he isn't a powerful sprinter over longer distances.
Minteh maybe has it, but he had a chance for a fast break late on against Brentford and the defence caught up with him pretty effectively.

Raw pace is the most valuable attribute in a player's profile.
Often over-valued in a player's asking price.
It's why our algorithm often overlooks genuinely pacey players.

I would guess we have one of he least pacy squads in the Premier League

To switch to that style, would require a very expensive overhaul of the squad.

 

[Bold Seagull]

I think we’re largely in agreement. And yes, perhaps it is that we become shot shy when our confidence is low. Your last paragraph in particular resonates.

Man City of the past always had someone who could play a killer pass to find a player and bypass the opposition, they either don’t have such a player (in form at least) now, or PL defences have got wise to them.

Liverpool always relied far more on breaking fast (either with an individual or in numbers) and they don’t seem to have lost their potency. I’m hoping Fab comes quite quickly to the importance of pace and not allowing defences time to organize, but time will tell. We’ve been here before with Potter and RDZ.

I was impressed with how Brentford mixed a high press with a low block. They could transition from committing players into our half for a press to getting narrow into a low block quicker than we could move the ball.

Some of it is form and confidence and who you have available. We’ve been conceding soft goals and missing presentable chances - it all adds up in the players minds and often a bigger factor than the tactics the manager sends them out with.

We’ve had these periods under each of our last 3 managers.

 

[chickens]

To be truly effective in counter attacking play you need multiple players attacking at pace.
Where is the pace going to come from?

Mitoma's acceleration over 10 yards is awesome, but he isn't a powerful sprinter over longer distances.
Minteh maybe has it, but he had a chance for a fast break late on against Brentford and the defence caught up with him pretty effectively.

Raw pace is the most valuable attribute in a player's profile.
Often over-valued in a player's asking price.
It's why our algorithm often overlooks genuinely pacey players.

I would guess we have one of he least pacy squads in the Premier League

To switch to that style, would require a very expensive overhaul of the squad.

We’re not the fastest PL squad, but we’ve managed to attack at pace with our existing squad under both Potter and RDZ, so I’m confident that we can do it again.

You don’t need a squad that can win every foot race, you just need a squad that can move forward without giving the opposition defence time to organize. We’ve got that now, no overhaul required.

 

[Bold Seagull]

To be truly effective in counter attacking play you need multiple players attacking at pace.
Where is the pace going to come from?

Mitoma's acceleration over 10 yards is awesome, but he isn't a powerful sprinter over longer distances.
Minteh maybe has it, but he had a chance for a fast break late on against Brentford and the defence caught up with him pretty effectively.

Raw pace is the most valuable attribute in a player's profile.
Often over-valued in a player's asking price.
It's why our algorithm often overlooks genuinely pacey players.

I would guess we have one of he least pacy squads in the Premier League

To switch to that style, would require a very expensive overhaul of the squad.

One of our most effective players for attacking at pace was Gross. As the old adage goes, no one moves faster than the ball. When you’re full of confidence you naturally make decisions faster, move the ball quicker. I don’t think it’s a question of a dramatic change in tactics or players, but it is about the speed of their decisions and choices. We are a few poor mistakes and player moments from being much higher up the table.

 

[Kosh]

Ok... this is exactly how it is. I'm a nice man so I'm going to give you one more chance to understand:

I was looking for an "he's even more shit than..." player to compare Enciso's lack of efficency with. I went with Aaron Connolly because everyone on this board including me are well aware that he's not a Premier League level player. I then took Connolly's quite poor finishing in the PL to show how useless Enciso's finishing is.

I really really really really don't give a shit about Aaron Connolly aside for hoping he plays well and has a good life. I ONLY used him as a comparison because at PL level, he is SHIT, and if his finishing is 4.5 times more efficient in the PL, Julio Enciso's efficency is shit.

If you don't want me to send you a PM asking what the f*** you want, then the best way for you start is to not make very random ad hominem attacks against me in a debate that so far had only been about Enciso (yes, with comparisons to Shearer, Lewandowski, Connolly, maybe f***ing Percy Tau - I dunno, it doesn't matter). I don't mind some rough playing but it really came out of absolutely nothing.

Nice men don’t get perma banned for peddling nasty (deeply) nasty hatred do they? You know, now you conveniently forgotten that, whilst reinventing yourself as some kind of white clad all things to all men footballing Svengali... as for resorting to contacting me privately with your usual array of angry F bombs whilst playing the innocent on here lol… you’re priceless.

Your obsession with using AC as a stick to beat us with is well documented, and yet you’re now claiming he was as shit as Julio apparently is, in spite of the latter playing in a deeper more varied role and the latter proving he can impact in more varied ways… your original comparison was and remains utter horseshit. It’s an insult to anyone’s intelligence thst you’d expect it to have any credence whatsoever. You just pulled AC out of the mist, because you have an odd obsession with him plain and simple. Doubtless you can’t fathom how your other obsession - Greyham from Dudley dropped such a huge ball with AC… great man management

I wouldn’t have let you crawl back on this board personally, but there you go.

 

[TheBrightonSeagull]

I sense he’s trying too hard trying to prove himself. He will grow with more game time. I feel we’ve yet to see the best in him.

 

[chickens]

Nice men don’t get perma banned for peddling nasty (deeply) nasty hatred do they? You know, now you conveniently forgotten that, whilst reinventing yourself as some kind of white clad all things to all men footballing Svengali... as for resorting to contacting me privately with your usual array of angry F bombs whilst playing the innocent on here lol… you’re priceless.

Your obsession with using AC as a stick to beat us with is well documented, and yet you’re now claiming he was as shit as Julio apparently is, in spite of the latter playing in a deeper more varied role and the latter proving he can impact in more varied ways… your original comparison was and remains utter horseshit. It’s an insult to anyone’s intelligence thst you’d expect it to have any credence whatsoever. You just pulled AC out of the mist, because you have an odd obsession with him plain and simple. Doubtless you can’t fathom how your other obsession - Greyham from Dudley dropped such a huge ball with AC… great man management

I wouldn’t have let you crawl back on this board personally, but there you go.

It’s shameless the way you two flirt.

 

[Han Solo]

Nice men don’t get perma banned for peddling nasty (deeply) nasty hatred do they? You know, now you conveniently forgotten that, whilst reinventing yourself as some kind of white clad all things to all men footballing Svengali... as for resorting to contacting me privately with your usual array of angry F bombs whilst playing the innocent on here lol… you’re priceless.

Your obsession with using AC as a stick to beat us with is well documented, and yet you’re now claiming he was as shit as Julio apparently is, in spite of the latter playing in a deeper more varied role and the latter proving he can impact in more varied ways… your original comparison was and remains utter horseshit. It’s an insult to anyone’s intelligence thst you’d expect it to have any credence whatsoever. You just pulled AC out of the mist, because you have an odd obsession with him plain and simple. Doubtless you can’t fathom how your other obsession - Greyham from Dudley dropped such a huge ball with AC… great man management

I wouldn’t have let you crawl back on this board personally, but there you go.

Umm ye... I'm the one with an obsession with Aaron Connolly.. clearly..

I believe every other poster in here understood that I only used Aaron as an example because he's familiar and shite. Yup, everyone else but you were able to understand this. They don't have a hang-up on Aaron Connolly so they knew that comparing Connollys shite stats with Encisos even shiter stats wasn't to portray AC some sort of football legend that we desperately need to sign in the January transfer window, but to show that Enciso isn't the messiah/saviour/solution to all our problems like several posters (some who have suggested sacking the manager for not playing Enciso) seem to think.

As for their general football: as I've said to you repeatedly, Enciso is a MUCH better footballer than Connolly was/is/ever will be.

BUT. To any attacking player, scoring goals and/or assisting to goals are important parts of the game even if you and @Flounce etc don't think so. Managers and clubs will take the number of goals and assists into account when selecting a player for the team. And if you need five times as many shots as the shite striker Aaron Connolly (if you're able to understand that this isn't a tribute to him) you're less likely to play football than if you're Joao Pedro who scores every 8th shot.

This thread is about whether the manager should stick with Enciso, who in the last two years needs close to 50 shots to produce one goal or if we're going to with Welbeck, Joao Pedro and maybe Evan Ferguson this spring while allowing Enciso improve his efficiency somewhere with less competition.

I have in various ways tried to explain my feelings and the statistical data backing up that Enciso has not been performing for us for a long time and most likely need to leave (on loan preferably) to become the footballer he can be. Brighton & Hove Albion are playing in the Premier League and in order to win games we simply can not afford having players who need 50 chances to score a goal. Eight chances to score a goal like JP this season or ~12 chances like Danny Welbeck is acceptable for us despite the best strikers in the world being around 1/4 or even 1/3.
But no Premier League team can afford playing attacking players who over a prolonged time need 50 chances to score goals.

If you're willing to discuss Enciso and football without personal attacks on me or the absolutely deluded idea that I've spent any more than seven minutes on Aaron Connolly since he gave the thumbs up and said "life's ok now", we can do that. If you want to continue to be the "tough guy hiding anonymously behind the screen writing mean things about people" - you can do that instead of course. Its your life choice and your consequences. But if we can stick to discussing Enciso, which sometimes include comparing him with other players, it is to the benefit of me, you and the board.

 

[Rdodge30]

But if we can stick to discussing Enciso, which sometimes include comparing him with other players, it is to the benefit of me, you and the board.

 

[Anger]

Voted Other. Enter him into The Great Pottery Throwdown 2025.

 

[Han Solo]

In 57 (+12) minutes of football, Julio Enciso accomplished a total of three (3) completed passes.
Can't wait for the intellectuals here to explain to me how f***ing good that is.