[Albion] Enciso -keep, sell or loan?

[Springal]

He’s 20, he’s not started that many games, given the quality of the goals too, it’s not really a negative.

My point is, this whole ‘he might as well have a go’ thing is pointless. His shots to goal ratio must be terrible

 

[Blue3]

He’s a fantastic player and potential to be the Albions future to build around

 

[Han Solo]

Oh please do name names. You have introduced the idea of a derogatory term by using the word ‘intellectuals.’ Please let us know who you are referring to.

Michael Gove similarly dumbed down debate by referring to “so-called experts.” And look where that got us!

Far better to just call out people you disagree with rather than throw around general insults.

What Enciso does do, in my humble opinion, is attempt to create trouble and score. He had created chances in the last two games, both striking the woodwork and making keepers make saves. His game play might not be perfect, but all the while he is shooting at the goal, he is attempting to affect the result.

There are a number of players not at their best at the moment and in all positions. Igor, JPVH, Gruda, Minteh etc - all are blowing hot and cold. I don’t think Enciso is alone in underperforming at the moment.

Wtf would be the point of naming names?

Its a general insult because its a general take that whatever Enciso was doing yesterday is good enough for us. Judging from various platforms there seems to be a 50/50 divide in whether we need what he was doing last night or not.

"Attempting to affect the result" is something ALL OF OUR PLAYERS do.

 

[Hamilton]

Wtf would be the point of naming names?

Its a general insult because its a general take that whatever Enciso was doing yesterday is good enough for us. Judging from various platforms there seems to be a 50/50 divide in whether we need what he was doing last night or not.

"Attempting to affect the result" is something ALL OF OUR PLAYERS do.

It’s a poor insult. Try harder.

And if you think all player ‘attempt to affect the result’ then you never saw Leon Best play.

As there is a 50/50 split on opinion, then please wind in the ‘intellectual’ rhetoric.

 

[DJ NOBO]

He’s stagnated but is only young and we might as well persevere with him now.
Wouldn’t want to see him blossom elsewhere and make another club a lot of money based off the grounding he got with us.

 

[Robdinho]

Ok.

First: I can't help that you can't be arsed going to the game. The game was televised, like every Premier League game, meaning all you had to was to enter a URL and press the play button and watch the game. If people are either to lazy or incompetent to do that, its their problem. "Plenty fans didn't see the game so its not fair to discuss it" is the dumbest shit I've heard in... three minutes (there's some murderous competition) or so.

We don't play English football. Not even German. Its Dutch football because we quite frequently pass it to players who are marked so that they with a good first touch, turn or pass will open spaces you don't get otherwise. Is it easy? No, but the PL is never easy so you have to perform when it isn't.

You have to be on your toes a) show yourself in front of you defender and b) keep the defender at a distance and beat him, when the pass comes you have to meet it and know immediately what to do with it. If you fail, you have to immediately apply counter-pressure (not lay down on the ground hoping the ref will save you from your incompetence) or you put your team in trouble.

Gruda and Enciso were shat on by a few Villa players who are currently much better Premier League players than they are. In the case of Gruda - who was a nudge better than Enciso last night - I don't have a problem with it. If he puts down the same performance after playing and training with a Premier League team for 2.5 years, I have a problem with it; it needs to be better at that point.

Julio Enciso is deteriorating as a player most likely due to a mix of limited game time and people having literally no demands on him. If Solly March misses 50 shots in a row he will certainly not be praised for that particular part of his game. If any professional footballer fail to make more than 3 completed passes in the number, fans will rightfully call it horrible if its almost any other player. Enciso? He gets praise and love for not performing. I'm not saying that manager, fans and media should throw him under the bus: I'm saying he should not be praised for being shit, because he will see no reason to do things differently.

I'm a big fan of Julios potential. There's a lot of skill in that body. Why people don't want to help him reach the level he could be through a good loan move somewhere and instead want to crowbar his current lacklustre level into our starting eleven... don't know. Its not helping him, us or anyone watching him.

Like I've said a thousand times: put him on loan in a team where they get relegated if he doesn't perform and he may well realise the value of team work and efficiency and the consequences of f***ing up. The honeymoon needs to be over if he's to stand a chance becoming the player he could be.

Crikey.

1. There has been LOADS of criticism of Enciso on here. I can only assume it's just your confirmation bias or your need for an argument that is stopping you seeing this.

2. I don't think anybody is saying he played well yesterday because he obviously didn't. But neither did at least half the team, so your singling out of Enciso just comes across as a vendetta against one player. People are understandably pushing back on this, which is winding you up for some reason.

3. To my eyes, he is playing exactly like he did when he first arrived: trying too hard and looking very lightweight. He managed to come good and "discover the value of teamwork" without going out on loan last time, I suspect many of us have faith that he can do it again.

4. Yes, he has clearly lost form/gone backwards. Your solution to this seems to be to give him more criticism/knock him down a peg. There are many reasons this may have happened that we we don't know about. I suspect you'll produce your sports psychology qualification soon to prove me wrong, but I'm not sure many players improve because they are being criticised by the "supporters", whatever those fans may like to think.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

My point is, this whole ‘he might as well have a go’ thing is pointless. His shots to goal ratio must be terrible

It isn't pointless.
Or at least it's no more pointless than trying to pass around/through a well organised and packed defence.

There aren't any stats to record how many chances are lost from looking for an opening, against a packed defence.
Experience indicates, it's pretty similar to the likelihood of taking an early shot.
but the shot from distance has become a derided option, as it's assumed retaining the ball is more valuable.
I'm not sure it is.

There is a similarly well known stat around corners. Doesn't stop us getting excited when we win one though does it?

IMO the only issue with Julio's have a go issue, is if he is ignoring better options, when the defence is not well set.
He definitely does this sometimes, but normally he's just ignoring the option to pass it around a bit.

 

[Han Solo]

Crikey.

1. There has been LOADS of criticism of Enciso on here. I can only assume it's just your confirmation bias or your need for an argument that is stopping you seeing this.

2. I don't think anybody is saying he played well yesterday because he obviously didn't. But neither did at least half the team, so your singling out of Enciso just comes across as a vendetta against one player. People are understandably pushing back on this, which is winding you up for some reason.

3. To my eyes, he is playing exactly like he did when he first arrived: trying too hard and looking very lightweight. He managed to come good and "discover the value of teamwork" without going out on loan last time, I suspect many of us have faith that he can do it again.

4. Yes, he has clearly lost form/gone backwards. Your solution to this seems to be to give him more criticism/knock him down a peg. There are many reasons this may have happened that we we don't know about. I suspect you'll produce your sports psychology qualification soon to prove me wrong, but I'm not sure many players improve because they are being criticised by the "supporters", whatever those fans may like to think.

1. There have been when he's been tweeting or talking in the press. Not really when he has been playing.

2. I understand it can be considered as such and yes I am a lot more demanding when it comes to players who have been with us for several years than players who recently came and not had a chance to learn the league and environment. Julio Enciso is winding me up not because he's bad but because there's nothing indicating a will to get better. Roberto De Zerbi pulled him in his ear and told him to stop shooting from everywhere and dribble all the time and it lasted for five minutes before he returned to his old days. I get the impression that Enciso thinks he is VERY good and does not want to listen to those who says he needs to think of himself as someone who needs to get better.

3. If our soon 21-year-old player is playing "exactly like he did" when he was 18, when do we expect to see improvement after 2.5 years of not seeing any?

4. Different solutions to different players and yes I think knocking him down a peg is the way to go with this player at this point, even though I agree it is rarely the case. If he goes on loan somewhere and does well, he will HOPEFULLY learn from what he did well and carry it with him. If he goes to loan somewhere and fucks up, he'll HOPEFULLY understand that he rather than his manager or team mates or club is to blame for his lack of success and use that as a drive to get better. I can not be perfectly sure or even "almost certainly sure" but I do think tough love is the way to go here.

 

[Balders]

There is no doubting his potential, but a lot of it is a mentality thing, he's trying too hard to prove himself, rather than having the nouse to choose different options that may help the team rather than himself - assists are much sort after these days, the only way currently he'll get an assist is by shooting and someone scoring on the rebound!

I remember the early days, one game in particular when he came on for Lalana after 5 mins, ran around like a headless chicken/rabbit in the headlights and was subbed off after 60mins. He's also muscled up, but he's still weak with his back to goal - a few times over the last 2 games he hasn't been strong enough for the out ball to feet and we've been put under pressure straight away.

It's almost as if these days he's a one trick pony - get the ball in a bit of space, 4 or 5 step overs and he either gets a shot away from outside the box or is crowded out - last night there were better options that he didn't use.

There is a player in there - how long do we give him to sort his head out?

 

[chickens]

There is no doubting his potential, but a lot of it is a mentality thing, he's trying too hard to prove himself, rather than having the nouse to choose different options that may help the team rather than himself - assists are much sort after these days, the only way currently he'll get an assist is by shooting and someone scoring on the rebound!

I remember the early days, one game in particular when he came on for Lalana after 5 mins, ran around like a headless chicken/rabbit in the headlights and was subbed off after 60mins. He's also muscled up, but he's still weak with his back to goal - a few times over the last 2 games he hasn't been strong enough for the out ball to feet and we've been put under pressure straight away.

It's almost as if these days he's a one trick pony - get the ball in a bit of space, 4 or 5 step overs and he either gets a shot away from outside the box or is crowded out - last night there were better options that he didn't use.

There is a player in there - how long do we give him to sort his head out?

I’m of the opinion that he can do his developing elsewhere and return when he’s matured a bit. We can’t afford to give up a squad place to someone who is permanently returning the ball to the opposition, either via a goal kick or by losing the ball directly. He’s not ready and we’ve got more than a couple of options in his position, in fact another one’s joining tomorrow.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

There is no doubting his potential, but a lot of it is a mentality thing, he's trying too hard to prove himself, rather than having the nouse to choose different options that may help the team rather than himself - assists are much sort after these days, the only way currently he'll get an assist is by shooting someone scoring on the rebound!

I remember the early days, one game in particular when he came on for Lalana after 5 mins, ran around like a headless chicken/rabbit in the headlights and was subbed off after 60mins. He's also muscled up, but he's still weak with his back to goal - a few times over the last 2 games he hasn't been strong enough for the out ball to feet and we've been put under pressure straight away.

It's almost as if these days he's a one trick pony - get the ball in a bit of space, 4 or 5 step overs and he either gets a shot away from outside the box or is crowded out - last night there were better options that he didn't use.

There is a player in there - how long do we give him to sort his head out?

Considering most of his shots are from distance, his shooting accuracy is very high. (43% overall, 55% this season)
Higher than Pedro, Welbeck, Mitoma (35%, 40%,, 41%)

He's very good at that particular skill, coaching it out of him would be a mistake.

A player that also tries a lot of long shots is Eze.
He hasn't scored many goals this season either (2 goal from 53 shots - 32% accuracy ) - should Palace have coached that skill out of him?

 

[singing4seagulls]

Must be given a decent run of games.

By having someone willing to shoot, he sucks in defenders much like mitoma. That creates space for others. Also one of the only players we have with talent to unlock a low block.

Many many goals in the PL go in from outside the box, or are saved but pushed into the path of a striker who slots it home.

To say taking a shot vs playing intricate passes in the box doesn't work is clearly false.

Clearly he's some real talent. Clearly a very good engine as he runs and presses the ball brilliantly.

Needs to get the decisions slightly better and to not fall over for a foul so often. But that's being young and getting game time.

He's had two proper starts. Give the poor lad some time.

We can all see there is talent there. Hell RDZ said he was very special.

Get behind the kid, give him support and confidence. If Fab can coach him a little he's a match winner for us.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

I’m of the opinion that he can do his developing elsewhere and return when he’s matured a bit. We can’t afford to give up a squad place to someone who is permanently returning the ball to the opposition, either via a goal kick or by losing the ball directly. He’s not ready and we’ve got more than a couple of options in his position, in fact another one’s joining tomorrow.

Plenty of players return the ball to the opposition when our attacks break down from flicks that don't come off, misunderstandings, poor delivery in the final third. attempting to dribble through packed defences.

55% shots on target indicates his shots have been less likely to be goal kicks than corners.

 

[Balders]

Considering most of his shots are from distance, his shooting accuracy is very high. (43% overall, 55% this season)
Higher than Pedro, Welbeck, Mitoma (35%, 40%,, 41%)

He's very good at that particular skill, coaching it out of him would be a mistake.

A player that also tries a lot of long shots is Eze.
He hasn't scored many goals this season either (2 goal from 53 shots - 32% accuracy ) - should Palace have coached that skill out of him?

It's not about coaching it out of him, it's more about him maturing and maybe picking better options sometimes as opposed to just shooting from anywhere for the chance of another "worldy". Opposing managers must be saying, just let him shoot all game!

 

[Uh_huh_him]

It's not about coaching it out of him, it's more about him maturing and maybe picking better options sometimes as opposed to just shooting from anywhere for the chance of another "worldy". Opposing managers must be saying, just let him shoot all game!

I think he is maturing in that way ,though.
every time he has a shot, people jump to the conclusion that he is taking a bad option.
Just because the shot from distance has a bad xg.

In reality it's often as good an option as recycling.

I would rather we had someone capable of stretching the opposition goalie 2 or 3 times a game.
than yet another player looking for a better option every single attack.

We are currently sorely lacking in confidence and self belief.
Julio doesn't have that trait.

 

[Bold Seagull]

He’s a fantastic player and potential to be the Albions future to build around

Strikes me that some of the voices suggesting get rid and similar to those suggesting the club dropped a clanger with Gykores.

Albion are very much in the business of player development.

 

[Springal]

I’m not saying he’s perfect, far from it, but at the moment he is kicking the round thing at the wooden structure that’s covered in netting. That’s all. And he is drawing saves. If others start doing that too then maybe we can drop him.

I’d rather let Lamptey take all these shots given his record this season compared to Julio

 

[Hamilton]

I’d rather let Lamptey take all these shots given his record this season compared to Julio

Which may be explain why neither of us have been offered the position of head coach.

 

[peterward]

He’s a fantastic player and potential to be the Albions future to build around

He was crap last night, and looked like he'd been on the mince pies over Christmas.

 

[Rdodge30]

And with many fans not going to the game and it not being on TV, you’re not allowing for a fair debate.

Wait, what now?