[Politics] Donald Trump, US President

[Flounce]

I feel exactly the opposite. Zelenskyy is a world leader who is at war, with thousands of his countrymen dying, he has no money and needs help on behalf of his countrymen… he should be able to sit in the devil’s own White House and hold his tongue even if his mother is insulted…and take the support his country needs. Or he’s not worthy of the office.

The whole thing was staged. Trump and Vance would have kept finding sticks to poke Zelensky with until he responded.

 

[One Love]

Staged for Putin?

 

[The Clamp]

Plus let’s not forget that Trump only means to get his hands on Ukraine’s resources.

He’ll do any deal with Putin to end the hostilities so he has a chance to start exploiting Ukraine.

Which will rip off the Ukrainian people, empower Putin and guarantee more fighting in the future.

Zelenskyy is trying to secure a future for his people and won’t settle for the slapdash, greedy deal that Trump is trying to rush through.

Zelenskyy not going to settle for a deal that condemns his people.

That makes him VERY worthy of office.

 

[Rdodge30]

With thousands of people dying? fair enough, we don’t agree - to be honest I’m pretty dogmatic over our own politics, not so much world politics… just thought I’d pop in and offer the thought that we all knew there were 2 c***s in the room but there’s actually a chance there were 3.

I will probably dip out here now, you always debate respectfully and we both love the Albion and if I remember rightly we both love The Clash..so I will see you in the Labour threads for Rachel’s spring statement fallout

 

[aolstudios]

The whole 45 minutes is freely available on YouTube and it is interesting- everything was very cordial for the first 30 minutes (obviously not reported as not newsworthy) … body language changes when Vance said the "path to peace and the path to prosperity is maybe engaging in diplomacy…this is what President Trump wants”

Zelenskyy says something like what sort of diplomacy, nobody has tried to stop Putin (not exact quote but along those lines) Vance says the sort of diplomacy that could stop the destruction of your country and then it escalated

The implication was that Zelenskyy should come to the negotiating table and he just changed- started lecturing Trump and that was that.

I know there are lots of commentary videos on Zelenskyy ticking and nose wiping and all the coke head stuff has been doing the rounds for years but that meeting went downhill quick over nothing

Not wearing a suit to the Oval Office? Piss poor behaviour- just like Musk but then I’m old fashioned so maybe it’s a modern thing , the world is tending to leave me behind on etiquette I admit !!

Churchill, at the Whitehouse

 

[The Clamp]

With thousands of people dying? fair enough, we don’t agree - to be honest I’m pretty dogmatic over our own politics, not so much world politics… just thought I’d pop in and offer the thought that we all knew there were 2 c***s in the room but there’s actually a chance there were 3.

I will probably dip out here now, you always debate respectfully and we both love the Albion and if I remember rightly we both love The Clash..so I will see you in the Labour threads for Rachel’s spring statement fallout

Absolutely! Nice debating with you

 

[aolstudios]

I feel exactly the opposite. Zelenskyy is a world leader who is at war, with thousands of his countrymen dying, he has no money and needs help on behalf of his countrymen… he should be able to sit in the devil’s own White House and hold his tongue even if his mother is insulted…and take the support his country needs. Or he’s not worthy of the office.

Do you think Churchill would've done that?

 

[aolstudios]

The whole thing was staged. Trump and Vance would have kept finding sticks to poke Zelensky with until he responded.

Exactly

 

[Triggaaar]

With thousands of people dying? fair enough, we don’t agree - to be honest I’m pretty dogmatic over our own politics, not so much world politics… just thought I’d pop in and offer the thought that we all knew there were 2 c***s in the room but there’s actually a chance there were 3.

How can you possibly add Zelenskyy to the list? His life is in constant danger because he stands up for Ukraine, for no personal gain. Trump is the opposite, dodging drafts and looking down on the 'losers and suckers' who serve, and trying to make a corrupt buck at every opportunity.

It's hardly a surprise if Zelenskyy reacted badly to a pair of liars who want to profit while thousands of Ukrainians die.

 

[Springal]

Exactly

They tried it with Starmer on free speech but he knew how to handle it. Likewise Macron who had to correct Trump a few times…

 

[beorhthelm]

The whole thing was staged. Trump and Vance would have kept finding sticks to poke Zelensky with until he responded.

people keep saying this - to what end? it supposes the intention is to leave the presser in acrimony, no formal meeting after, leading to no immediate prospect of an agreement.
sure they were bullying Zelensky, not to this outcome, it all went too far and they lost control.

 

[One Love]

people keep saying this - to what end? it supposes the intention is to leave the presser in acrimony, no formal meeting after, leading to no immediate prospect of an agreement.
sure they were bullying Zelensky, not to this outcome, it all went too far and they lost control.

It's obvious isn't it?

To undermine Zelensky and force him into a corner where he's more likely to agree a ridiculous deal and to gain kudos with Putin.

 

[HalfaSeatOn]

Wouldn’t be surprised if Trumps real ‘peace plan’ is a colonial oriented US/Russia compact where Trump exploits it economically and Putin has political control.

 

[maffew]

Well that was a hell of a Fridat night drinking thread.

Things to remember, Trump didn’t start this nightmare. Blame it on Putin, and the Biden administration, you, and Europe who stood by, watched, and did nothing.

We had Macron and Starmer over here, you lot gushing how they played Trump like a fiddle, caressing his gigantic ego. Then you have Billy big bollocks over here, in his war costume, begging for cash, and telling the c***ts
how it’s going to be. You all acclaim him as a master of diplomacy, a true hero of our times. He got booted out the front door with nothing. What a diplomat.

So where are we now? Starmer, we’re behind you to the end? A war you can’t afford and will never end? NATO troops on the ground and WW3?

Fu**ing hell.

Perfect example of what happens when the state starts controlling the media, the people start believing the authoritarian lies.
US is in danger of being no different to Russia, China and North Korea.

Already peaceful protesters were arrested yesterday at Tesla. Very dangerous. Twitter is next. Free speech will be fine, unless it questions the establishment

 

[beorhthelm]

It's obvious isn't it?

To undermine Zelensky and force him into a corner where he's more likely to agree a ridiculous deal and to gain kudos with Putin.

it didn't force anything, other than ending the deal. a future deal may or may not happen. sure they may have got a brownie point from Putin but to no real benefit. US have come out looking worse, see Rubio on the sofa next to Vance, knowing it's shitshow and he's got to go out and recover this.

 

[Flounce]

it didn't force anything, other than ending the deal. a future deal may or may not happen. sure they may have got a brownie point from Putin but to no real benefit. US have come out looking worse, see Rubio on the sofa next to Vance, knowing it's shitshow and he's got to go out and recover this.

Not saying it was staged to end up as it did, but Trump and seemingly Vance lack the diplomacy to rein in getting emotional when things go a bit awry. Losing your temper and finger pointing is not what you do….imo

Rightly or wrongly I imagine Zelensky is on a bit of a short fuse given what he is going through and any jet lag he probably had, so perhaps he could be said to have over reacted, but I struggle to criticise him for it given the attacks on him by the Americans and the fact that I don’t think they let him finish one sentence, without shouting him down, once it started kicking off

 

[Springal]

 

[Cordwainer]

Trump officials fume at Zelenskyy for disregarding advice before meeting

Officials say minerals deal would serve as commitment to US security guarantee and Ukraine leader shouldn’t have pressed issue

www.theguardian.com

Who knows the veracity of the source, but it’s certainly in keeping with President Tropes desperately brittle ego. Can’t be far off expecting visitors to kiss the ring and anoint the feet.

 

[A1X]

Well that was a hell of a Fridat night drinking thread.

Things to remember, Trump didn’t start this nightmare. Blame it on Putin, and the Biden administration, you, and Europe who stood by, watched, and did nothing.

We had Macron and Starmer over here, you lot gushing how they played Trump like a fiddle, caressing his gigantic ego. Then you have Billy big bollocks over here, in his war costume, begging for cash, and telling the c***ts
how it’s going to be. You all acclaim him as a master of diplomacy, a true hero of our times. He got booted out the front door with nothing. What a diplomat.

So where are we now? Starmer, we’re behind you to the end? A war you can’t afford and will never end? NATO troops on the ground and WW3?

Fu**ing hell.

So you’ve backed, supported and presumably voted for a guy who’s almost immediately sold your country out to it’s traditional enemy and has trashed your international reputation in 48 hours.

I’m not surprised you’re lashing out. People slowly realising they’ve been played usually do.

 

[Grizz]

Trump is a businessman first and foremost. He wants, money, power, influence and to sit at the top table saying 'I'm the King'. Vance and the Tech Bros are on board and this is just about business on a Country/Continent scale rather than company/conglomerate one. Ukraine is a company, has resources they want and won't give them up, so now it's time to intimidate them into giving them or carve it up. Putin will be on board with that, so it's hard to see how they come out of this with any sovereignty intact.

Trump, Vance, the Tech Bros just see America as a company. They only have an ideology of self, not of the left or right or of fascism, communism. They're just convenient tools to help them manipulate the masses, hence the attacks on DEI, the LGBTQ+ community. This looks to be an Autocratic/Oligarchical take over of the US, mirroring what eventually happened in Russia. Both societies are heavily underpinned by religion, the only major difference is that American citizens have the illusion that they live in the land of the free, they have rights, but in reality it's money that talks with them. Hence the Administration saying, we've pared back all these wasteful institutions, saved you billions in taxes. That appeals to Americans, where in reality they've just removed a lot of oversight in what they're doing to takeover. The Courts are currently standing firm against the tide, but it's only a matter of time before they're attacked.

It'll be interesting to see what happens to Ukraine. If it's carved up, then China will gobble up Taiwan pretty quickly and I doubt anyone will do anything about it. The Administration definitely has eyes on Greenland, the amount of natural resources wealth that land mass contains has them drooling and itching to get at it. It's why they don't give a shite about climate change. Be interesting to see if they can buy the Greenlanders off, as they don't give a damn about what Denmark thinks, or they instigate an incident to put troops on the ground there.

Then the big step. Can Trump achieve his Putinesque aim and remove the two term Presidency rule. If he manages that, then all bets are off for the rest of the World, stuck between the Autocracies of the US, Russia and China.

Just my thoughts.