[Politics] Donald Trump, US President

[Flounce]

Lindsay Graham, how f***ing deluded can American politicians get

Two minutes in

 

[SouthSaxon]

I feel exactly the opposite. Zelenskyy is a world leader who is at war, with thousands of his countrymen dying, he has no money and needs help on behalf of his countrymen… he should be able to sit in the devil’s own White House and hold his tongue even if his mother is insulted…and take the support his country needs. Or he’s not worthy of the office.

Respectfully, that’s just not what’s happening. Trump is telling him that he has to sign a deal designed to enrich US businesses *before* they can talk about the help Ukraine needs.

That’s called extortion.

His country has been invaded. 20% of it is in Russian hands. Putin will demand the rest of those 4 oblasts in any peace deal. Millions more Ukrainian’s live in that unoccupied land.

And Trump and Vance are telling Zelenskyy they expect him to make peace and just hand over millions of his citizens to Putin.

Be in no doubt on this - when an invaded country is being told it needs to ask for peace, it is being told to surrender.

No democratic leader is going to accept that, especially when he also knows the invader cannot be trusted to stick with any agreement.

Vance blew up the meeting when Zelenskyy tried to point this out.

“Our mutual enemy cannot be trusted”
“You’re being disrespectful to us, get out”

I don’t know how anyone can, in any sincerity, read what happened any other way.

 

[BiffyBoy100]

Rubbish. Andrew has no status, so no more interest to Trump than you or (thankfully) me.

I don’t know! They had a very mutual acquaintance in Epstein.:.

 

[GT49er]

I don’t know! They had a very mutual acquaintance in Epstein.:.

No longer important, so just won't exist for for the USA half of the Hitler twins.

 

[Albion my Albion]

Be in no doubt on this - when an invaded country is being told it needs to ask for peace, it is being told to surrender.

Agree.

When you are told you are not holding the cards you are being told to surrender.

 

[Bodian]

I may be clutching at a straw, or quite possibly a nettle, but Trump did say something like... 'when he wants peace he can come back.'
No...I don't suddenly trust him either. Maybe it means he still wants the mineral deal

The whole 45 minutes is freely available on YouTube and it is interesting- everything was very cordial for the first 30 minutes (obviously not reported as not newsworthy) … body language changes when Vance said the "path to peace and the path to prosperity is maybe engaging in diplomacy…this is what President Trump wants”

Zelenskyy says something like what sort of diplomacy, nobody has tried to stop Putin (not exact quote but along those lines) Vance says the sort of diplomacy that could stop the destruction of your country and then it escalated

The implication was that Zelenskyy should come to the negotiating table and he just changed- started lecturing Trump and that was that.

I know there are lots of commentary videos on Zelenskyy ticking and nose wiping and all the coke head stuff has been doing the rounds for years but that meeting went downhill quick over nothing

Not wearing a suit to the Oval Office? Piss poor behaviour- just like Musk but then I’m old fashioned so maybe it’s a modern thing , the world is tending to leave me behind on etiquette I admit !!

I watched the whole meeting things were very cordial and the deal was done, Zelenskyy blew the deal up - Vance said the route to peace is through diplomacy and Zelenskyy lost the plot - it was extremely bizarre to say the least … the meagre suggestion of coming to the negotiating table and all hell broke loose. Watch the whole thing, the last 10 minutes doesn’t tell the story. The body language- everything to me says if you watched that with an open mind - Zelenskyy blew that deal up over nothing

Just my thoughts though, nothing deeper.

I've watched it. And I've watched some of it again. And like an addiction to car crashes I have seen the last ten minutes three or four times now - as aside from the seriousness of it all, it is actually a fascinating look at relationships and meetings.

My take on it is different from yours. Yes - it all went along cordially for a long while, then Trump started on about Hunter Biden, and so on so he looked as though he was winding himself up. But, he waved away Zelensky's corrections on the US v EU aid fairly amicably. However, it was when they raised Putin and ceasefires that it did indeed start going wrong. But I don't think Zelensky actually did anything wrong himself. Vance started on about diplomacy; Zelensky then asked the one question that they cannot answer (in effect he said 'look at all these ceasefires Putin has broken, what will be different this time?). And what do bullies do when they cannot answer a question? They go on the attack and often at a tangent. That's precisely what Vance & Trump did. They knew they couldn't provide an answer to Zelensky's quite reasonable question - so they played the man not the ball.

Why could they not answer the question? - see below for my thoughts.

people keep saying this - to what end? it supposes the intention is to leave the presser in acrimony, no formal meeting after, leading to no immediate prospect of an agreement.
sure they were bullying Zelensky, not to this outcome, it all went too far and they lost control.

The thing is - Trump said he would end the war in one day. His plan was seemingly that because he was great mates with Putin, he'd just ring him up and sort it all out. But Putin has obviously told him he has no intention of stopping fighting till he has got what he wants.

So, what's Trump's only other option? Get Ukraine to give up / stop. But then he realises that they are not going to without some form of security commitment from the US, which he can't afford to give because that would not meet his 'tough guy' image and his MAGA interests. So - he takes out his frustration on the person to hand - which is Zelensky, as he thinks he can bully him.

The minerals deal is a sideshow - and absolutely nothing to do with securing peace.

 

[Albion my Albion]

 

[Triggaaar]

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Why is the user blurred out? Is that a real post?

 

[Springal]

 

[A1X]

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[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I've watched it. And I've watched some of it again. And like an addiction to car crashes I have seen the last ten minutes three or four times now - as aside from the seriousness of it all, it is actually a fascinating look at relationships and meetings.

My take on it is different from yours. Yes - it all went along cordially for a long while, then Trump started on about Hunter Biden, and so on so he looked as though he was winding himself up. But, he waved away Zelensky's corrections on the US v EU aid fairly amicably. However, it was when they raised Putin and ceasefires that it did indeed start going wrong. But I don't think Zelensky actually did anything wrong himself. Vance started on about diplomacy; Zelensky then asked the one question that they cannot answer (in effect he said 'look at all these ceasefires Putin has broken, what will be different this time?). And what do bullies do when they cannot answer a question? They go on the attack and often at a tangent. That's precisely what Vance & Trump did. They knew they couldn't provide an answer to Zelensky's quite reasonable question - so they played the man not the ball.

Why could they not answer the question? - see below for my thoughts.



The thing is - Trump said he would end the war in one day. His plan was seemingly that because he was great mates with Putin, he'd just ring him up and sort it all out. But Putin has obviously told him he has no intention of stopping fighting till he has got what he wants.

So, what's Trump's only other option? Get Ukraine to give up / stop. But then he realises that they are not going to without some form of security commitment from the US, which he can't afford to give because that would not meet his 'tough guy' image and his MAGA interests. So - he takes out his frustration on the person to hand - which is Zelensky, as he thinks he can bully him.

The minerals deal is a sideshow - and absolutely nothing to do with securing peace.

Interesting.

Some years ago a chap I mentioned recently, the one who repeatedly fires a metaphorical shot gun into the sky in the expectation that he will hit at last one bird, when our society journal's contract with a publisher (Blackwell) was coming up for renewal, once mas]de a play to sell the journal to Nature Publishing. Change the name from Brit J X to Nature X. It was a crazy plan and meant the society lost ownership of the name of the journal and would be in thrall to Nature publishing forever. He was outvoted as we had a better offer from Wiley. Then at the 11th hour and 59th minute of discussions our chum proposed the society create a new journal with Nature publishing. We (the executive committee) raised an eyebrow and moved on.

Our friend was just making it up as he went along.

Yet 15 years later he became our society's president.

Ego. It was all about ego.

Trump is just having a bit of ego fun. Doesn't like being challenged.

And he is making up policy on the hoof.
Let's see if Starmer can outsmart him. It won't be easy.
The Ukraine president is out of his depth.

 

[Bodian]

Interesting.

Some years ago a chap I mentioned recently, the one who repeatedly fires a metaphorical shot gun into the sky in the expectation that he will hit at last one bird, when our society journal's contract with a publisher (Blackwell) was coming up for renewal, once mas]de a play to sell the journal to Nature Publishing. Change the name from Brit J X to Nature X. It was a crazy plan and meant the society lost ownership of the name of the journal and would be in thrall to Nature publishing forever. He was outvoted as we had a better offer from Wiley. Then at the 11th hour and 59th minute of discussions our chum proposed the society create a new journal with Nature publishing. We (the executive committee) raised an eyebrow and moved on.

Our friend was just making it up as he went along.

Yet 15 years later he became our society's president.

Ego. It was all about ego.

Trump is just having a bit of ego fun. Doesn't like being challenged.

And he is making up policy on the hoof.
Let's see if Starmer can outsmart him. It won't be easy.
The Ukraine president is out of his depth.

Ego indeed. That is what Trump is all about.

It also interests me when people like Vance and other right-wing commentators keep on saying 'Trump has made great deals all his life - he can make a great deal here'. Then you read that if Trump had simply stuck his father's hand-me-down fortune into the bank / stock exchange he would actually be better off than he is after all his deals (not to mention his bankruptcies).

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Ego indeed. That is what Trump is all about.

It also interests me when people like Vance and other right-wing commentators keep on saying 'Trump has made great deals all his life - he can make a great deal here'. Then you read that if Trump had simply stuck his father's hand-me-down fortune into the bank / stock exchange he would actually be better off than he is after all his deals (not to mention his bankruptcies).

Indeed.

A triumph of appearance (and hubris) over substance.

The great men of commerce of America, who were also great philanthropists, not silver spoon-born tax dodgers, would tut at Trump.

 

[Cordwainer]

Ego indeed. That is what Trump is all about.

It also interests me when people like Vance and other right-wing commentators keep on saying 'Trump has made great deals all his life - he can make a great deal here'. Then you read that if Trump had simply stuck his father's hand-me-down fortune into the bank / stock exchange he would actually be better off than he is after all his deals (not to mention his bankruptcies).

Trumps deal making reputation, like almost everything else about him, is, I’d suggest, an article of faith, contrary to actual facts.

 

[Littlemo]

Interesting.

Some years ago a chap I mentioned recently, the one who repeatedly fires a metaphorical shot gun into the sky in the expectation that he will hit at last one bird, when our society journal's contract with a publisher (Blackwell) was coming up for renewal, once mas]de a play to sell the journal to Nature Publishing. Change the name from Brit J X to Nature X. It was a crazy plan and meant the society lost ownership of the name of the journal and would be in thrall to Nature publishing forever. He was outvoted as we had a better offer from Wiley. Then at the 11th hour and 59th minute of discussions our chum proposed the society create a new journal with Nature publishing. We (the executive committee) raised an eyebrow and moved on.

Our friend was just making it up as he went along.

Yet 15 years later he became our society's president.

Ego. It was all about ego.

Trump is just having a bit of ego fun. Doesn't like being challenged.

And he is making up policy on the hoof.
Let's see if Starmer can outsmart him. It won't be easy.
The Ukraine president is out of his depth.

This may interest you but apparently the NIH funded repository Pubmed has been down most of the weekend. Seems linked to the recently fired digital teams. It’s back up but you have to wonder how long it’ll last and how reliable it’ll be.

 

[ManOfSussex]

He's a right **** that JD Vance. A total and utter **** in fact.

 

[lasvegan]

Oh you’re back.

You didn’t answer my last question

What does your best friends Ukrainian brother in Laws father (or whatever distant made up relative it was) think of Zelensky.
We know what you think
But what does your distant relative Ukrainian think?

By the way, how come you’re in Las Vegas - or is that just a stage name?

I did answer your question, go back and check. And yes, they hate him.

And yes, I’m in Las Vegas, and it’s really none of your business why. Does it really matter?

 

[lasvegan]

Guardian reported this week that the EU has paid more to Russia for gas and oil than given to Ukraine in aid

EU spends more on Russian oil and gas than financial aid to Ukraine – report

Europe estimated to have bought €22bn of fossil fuels from Russia in 2024 but gave €19bn to support Kyiv

www.theguardian.com

Whilst we have given them money, we are also funding Russia

We (Europe) could be doing more

I read that also, shocking if true.

But then again, I don’t want to see old people freeze to death if they can’t afford to heat their homes. Europe really needs to rethink their fossil fuel policies.

 

[Rdodge30]

Do you think Churchill would've done that?

Churchill took the knee in the U S he begged for support repeatedly and eventually accepted support which took the U K 75 years to repay …. 75 years of debt!! Paid off finally in 2020’s

Churchill understood both the balance of power and the needs of his people

 

[OzMike]

Look at the carnage he has caused in 1 month !
He will be a bulldozer to society for the nexr 4 years and much of the damage he will cause will take years to put right, that is if it can be put right.
There may not be a world left, a habitable one anyway.
Whoever contracted the assasination shooter should have paid more and got a marksman.
Trump is a waste of DNA, Musk not far behind him.