Could UKIP win the General Election ?

[Hastings gull]

reports that put the EU in a bad light......I would of said the complete opposite and I would have said the media are doing their upmost to promote the EU in a good light.
never have I heard the mainstream media expose the EU for what it actually is.. though It is very important that we are made fully aware.

an example of this is you would have thought at the very least something as serious and important as the audit commission and the credibility of the EU accounts were dismissed from ever being made public really should be more heavily publicised...but instead the subject is completely dismissed. had this of been a business the auditors would of wrapped the whole thing up years ago.

and finally apart from the EU commissioners and the fact that most of them were or still are communists Marxists etc the referendum given over by them to 3 nation states I.E. Holland france and ireland and their decision to overturn the outcome at any cost going should have atleast sent alarm bells ringing. or at the very least the matter been discussed a lot more.. but not a murmur from anyone and again the whole thing completely dismissed as if it had never of happened.

Hello again,

Many thanks for your reply. I think we will have to differ about the impression we have of the press coverage. To be fair, I have read about the scandal of their accounts, so we do hear of it and it is not dismissed. It is, however, an absolute disgrace and hardly puts the EU in a good light, I fully agree, and yes, any business that could not satisfy auditors for years would be in deep trouble.
I would think that you do not like our membership of the EU -would you be happier in a slimmed-down version, where, as was originally intended, it would be "simply"for ease of trade and travel?
I have been amazed at the appointment of Juncker, given that the elections in several countries clearly demonstrated that parties which are sceptical made such electoral gains. You might have thought that "they" might just listen to what the voters are veering towards and take heed accordingly. But then it is such a huge and remote bureaucracy that I suppose one should not be too surprised - while so many folk do so well out of it, and clearly are not going to be penalised if the accounts don't stack up, then this will roll on and on. And the dissatisfaction grows at grass-root level.

 

[Red Side Of Sussex]

My sister lives in a council house in Crawley,she moved there when the house was built 20 years ago.A few years ago the house next door was bought by a polish man called Erik.He has since transformed this 3 bedroom house into a mini hotel where up to 18 young polish people live at any one time.It has no garden anymore because an illegal extention was built to make more room for beds.

My wives friend Laura lives in a 3 bed house in Woodfield Rd Northgate.
The house next door is owned by an Asian who rents it out.About 6 months ago young Polish men moved in.At the last count there were 20 of them living in the ex council house.
They have started cooking somewhere upstairs and now the council are involved.
The Lives of those living next door is now stressful.A young English couple who are neighbours on the other side bought their home about 18 months ago now have to put up with noise and rubbish and constant stress.
They along with my sister will be voting for UKIP.

 

[brighton fella]

Hello again,

Many thanks for your reply. I think we will have to differ about the impression we have of the press coverage. To be fair, I have read about the scandal of their accounts, so we do hear of it and it is not dismissed. It is, however, an absolute disgrace and hardly puts the EU in a good light, I fully agree, and yes, any business that could not satisfy auditors for years would be in deep trouble.
I would think that you do not like our membership of the EU -would you be happier in a slimmed-down version, where, as was originally intended, it would be "simply"for ease of trade and travel?
I have been amazed at the appointment of Juncker, given that the elections in several countries clearly demonstrated that parties which are sceptical made such electoral gains. You might have thought that "they" might just listen to what the voters are veering towards and take heed accordingly. But then it is such a huge and remote bureaucracy that I suppose one should not be too surprised - while so many folk do so well out of it, and clearly are not going to be penalised if the accounts don't stack up, then this will roll on and on. And the dissatisfaction grows at grass-root level.

how right you are as in all of the time there are makers the whole thing will just continue on regardless without a care or thought in the world for the millions of folk they have left behind struggling starving and fighting for a job.
evil vile selfish arrogant greedy b*stards is how I'd best describe these single minded fascist t*ats and I cant believe I would have half considered a trade negotiated deal with these vile people just like the one offered us in 75 (which we now know to be one massive con and lie used in order to sway public opinion in favour of their corrupt agenda ) but after knowing what I now know and how this corrupt mob of bureaucrats operate.. then how could I possibly find it within myself to trust any of these b*stards in a deal ?

i wouldn't entertain any sort of deal with these jokers even if it meant me and my family having to starve and that's the honest truth.

 

[GT49er]

If we do ever get this referendum all we will hear is the business case, scaremongering, anything to scare the general public in to voting yes.

Pretty much like the last referendum in the 1970s then.

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

Not a chance. The most seats they'll win is about 4 or 5. Also to be honest opinion polls mean shit all (Scotland) and even if they did get that proportion of votes that the opinion poll is suggesting, it'll be finishing 2nd and 3rd in most consistuanies.

There are two possible scenarios , firstly UKIP might only need a handful of seats to form a "loose" coalition with the Tories , secondly they split the Tory vote and Labour mop up in the marginals.

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

As always, the debate around UKIP always revolves around the two key single issues, immigration and the EU. Their supporters don't generally seem to consider that by voting for UKIP they are voting for many other policies which do not favour them - but I suppose that doesn't matter, because we all know they won't get any kind of actual power.

Both of the main parties are already responding to those single issues, but clearly their response isn't anywhere near satisfactory as UKIP's momentum is sustained. I do wonder what will happen when the general election passes, UKIP win a few seats, perhaps we have a referendum to which the British public would inevitably vote "no" to leaving the EU, immigration will of course be reduced by whoever wins - but what then? This is all a massive waste of time, which won't bring about change that will actually improve our quality of lives.

How can say with absolute certainty that if there is a IN/OUT referendum it will end up as a NO result ? We live in a democracy and the majority will decide.

 

[GT49er]

How can say with absolute certainty that if there is a IN/OUT referendum it will end up as a NO result ? We live in a democracy and the majority will decide.

There will be major scaremongering and mud-flinging as there was in the 1970s to make people vote yes to staying in. Sadly it will probably work again.

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

There will be major scaremongering and mud-flinging as there was in the 1970s to make people vote yes to staying in. Sadly it will probably work again.

Well it worked in Scotland with the independence referendum in September. Since the result SNP membership has quadrupled

 

[brighton fella]

My sister lives in a council house in Crawley,she moved there when the house was built 20 years ago.A few years ago the house next door was bought by a polish man called Erik.He has since transformed this 3 bedroom house into a mini hotel where up to 18 young polish people live at any one time.It has no garden anymore because an illegal extention was built to make more room for beds.

My wives friend Laura lives in a 3 bed house in Woodfield Rd Northgate.
The house next door is owned by an Asian who rents it out.About 6 months ago young Polish men moved in.At the last count there were 20 of them living in the ex council house.
They have started cooking somewhere upstairs and now the council are involved.
The Lives of those living next door is now stressful.A young English couple who are neighbours on the other side bought their home about 18 months ago now have to put up with noise and rubbish and constant stress.
They along with my sister will be voting for UKIP.

annoying as this is the whole thing wouldn't have been half as annoying had the public been given a fair say on the matter and not been fed a load of lies instead.

and they have the f*cking nerve to call themselves DEMOCRATIC

 

[Hastings gull]

The powers that be will want a "no" vote and it will be easy for them to manipulate an already divided public opinion. I am absolutely certain that this would be the result of a referendum and the debate will be put to bed for another few decades.

UKIP, in the grand scheme of things, will change absolutely nothing.

How can you be so sure that the powers that be want "No"? We do not yet know what will happen between now and a planned referendum, and even which party will be in power? And do you know what form the plebiscite will take or that we even have one at all - will it be a straightforward yes or no, or a more complicated version, taking into account the complexities that are involved. So much can happen in 3 years, assuming it is 2017.
How will it be easy etc, as you say?

 

[brighton fella]

The powers that be will want a "no" vote and it will be easy for them to manipulate an already divided public opinion. I am absolutely certain that this would be the result of a referendum and the debate will be put to bed for another few decades..

you've said it yourself they'll resort to corruption if they have to... exactly the reason I shall be voting ukip.

 

[Hastings gull]

Originally Posted by Red Side Of Sussex View Post



My sister lives in a council house in Crawley,she moved there when the house was built 20 years ago.A few years ago the house next door was bought by a polish man called Erik.He has since transformed this 3 bedroom house into a mini hotel where up to 18 young polish people live at any one time.It has no garden anymore because an illegal extention was built to make more room for beds.

My wives friend Laura lives in a 3 bed house in Woodfield Rd Northgate.
The house next door is owned by an Asian who rents it out.About 6 months ago young Polish men moved in.At the last count there were 20 of them living in the ex council house.
They have started cooking somewhere upstairs and now the council are involved.
The Lives of those living next door is now stressful.A young English couple who are neighbours on the other side bought their home about 18 months ago now have to put up with noise and rubbish and constant stress.
They along with my sister will be voting for UKIP.

Thanks for this. It is easy to dismiss this as propaganda by those who feel that UKIP voters are racists etc, but for these people it is everyday life. Whatever one thinks of this example, this is the reality as people see it, and as I have said before, when you see your area transformed by immigration, and you do not feel that you have even been asked as to whether you agree with it, then you are more likely to look for other solutions than Eton Toffs and Champagne Socialists have been able to come up with.

 

[brighton fella]

Originally Posted by Red Side Of Sussex View Post



My sister lives in a council house in Crawley,she moved there when the house was built 20 years ago.A few years ago the house next door was bought by a polish man called Erik.He has since transformed this 3 bedroom house into a mini hotel where up to 18 young polish people live at any one time.It has no garden anymore because an illegal extention was built to make more room for beds.

My wives friend Laura lives in a 3 bed house in Woodfield Rd Northgate.
The house next door is owned by an Asian who rents it out.About 6 months ago young Polish men moved in.At the last count there were 20 of them living in the ex council house.
They have started cooking somewhere upstairs and now the council are involved.
The Lives of those living next door is now stressful.A young English couple who are neighbours on the other side bought their home about 18 months ago now have to put up with noise and rubbish and constant stress.
They along with my sister will be voting for UKIP.

Thanks for this. It is easy to dismiss this as propaganda by those who feel that UKIP voters are racists etc, but for these people it is everyday life. Whatever one thinks of this example, this is the reality as people see it, and as I have said before, when you see your area transformed by immigration, and you do not feel that you have even been asked as to whether you agree with it, then you are more likely to look for other solutions than Eton Toffs and Champagne Socialists have been able to come up with.

exactly. and im fed up having to look over my shoulder each time and having to explain to someone that im not a racist. far too much has been made of that word its become an obsession with some people.

 

[cunning fergus]

I don't disbelieve you for one moment when you say that business leaders' motives are clear -they see the EU as a good thing and if you want to be cynical, then it just continues capitalism, or whatever. My point is simply that your average punter in the street is not concerned with business/capitalism etc etc, but that rapid changes brought about by what they see as excessive immigration will have unfortunate consequences for your society.
With the best will in the world, I can't see your logic about European peace and the Nobel Peace Prize?

I wouldn't disagree about your contention about the average punter, however there is a tangible link with immigration, big business and politicians, because only big business benefits from unrestricted markets.

Why else would mainstream politicians continue to ignore public concerns about immigration until the likes of UKIP have secured by-elections? It doesn't make any sense, politicians would normally court public opinion like flies are attracted to shit, yet for years public concerns have been derided (remember Gillian Duffy).

As for the Nobel peace prize, my point was that the EU and it's supporters have always been able to use economic growth and stability as the primary motive for the EU and integration.

That narrative is in tatters following the crisis in the euro zone and more pain is still to come. Yet, at the height of the crisis, when Merkel's visit to Greece descended into riots, the EU is awarded the Nobel peace prize for peace in Europe since the end of WW2.

So, now we have a new narrative for the reason for the EU, peace in Europe..........an argument that was never deployed by EU supporters before. As for whether deserved it I guess you need to look at the independence of the Committee...........here is the Chairman;

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thorbjørn_Jagland

Independent enough for you?

 

[beorhthelm]

The powers that be will want a "no" vote and it will be easy for them to manipulate an already divided public opinion. I am absolutely certain that this would be the result of a referendum and the debate will be put to bed for another few decades.

the powers that be, eh... which ones? because its clear that a number of "powers" are contesting for leaving the EU, others want to engage wholeheartedly in the european project. within europe they want further, tighter integration of EU members, shirley these powers have their say and want to keep us in? i'd say off the back of the Scottish referendum, any referendum will settle the debate until about lunch time the next day.

So, now we have a new narrative for the reason for the EU, peace in Europe..........an argument that was never deployed by EU supporters before

to be fair, the peace of europe was and always has been at the heart of the european project. closer economic and now political integration is seen as the only way to avoid nation states fighting each other every other generation. daft though to give the Nobel prize to the whole institution, especially with the timing.

 

[GT49er]

the powers that be, eh... which ones?

The Labour Party
The Lib dems
The Greens (I think)
The Conservative party (the ruling bits of it - ie Cameron and co. - not necessarily its grass roots, which probably when the crunch comes will vote for their leaders anyway)

Make no mistake about it, any referendum will be rigged, one way or another. Possibly by putting some sort of spin on a 're-negotiation' (although we all know what a farce David Cameron's last 're-negotiation was).

 

[brighton fella]

to be fair, the peace of europe was and always has been at the heart of the european project. closer economic and now political integration is seen as the only way to avoid nation states fighting each other every other generation. daft though to give the Nobel prize to the whole institution, especially with the timing.

this whole "designed as a peace making thing" is a complete charade, infact it's creating the opposite, southern eu member nation states are becoming over time more hostile towards the more successful northern eu states. Greece's golden dawn is an example of the kind of hostility as they are reminding us daily of their hatred towards Germany.. other southern nation states find themselves doing the exact same thing.
you've only got to look at Yugoslavia to recognise what happens when you force nation states together.

 

[pastafarian]

Agreed

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-30267042

Indeed

This idea was proposed by a bunch of loony left wingers/greens.

It was far too draconian and the Swiss didnt buy it.

Their right wing opponents the SVP had already won earlier in the year their referendum vote to have a return of quotas on immigrants. They had even lobbied against this latest proposal.

The way forward is an immigration policy with managed realistic numbers.

 

[brighton fella]

Agreed

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-30267042

I see the BBC propaganda machine is hard at work again. what a load of b*llocks.

 

[daveinprague]

I see the BBC propaganda machine is hard at work again. what a load of b*llocks.

They really are the worst eh? Reporting referendum votes etc.