Civil War Brewing in the Ukraine?

[Raleigh Chopper]

Never mind the end of civilisation as we know it, what about my future gas bills!

 

[beorhthelm]

Yes, family has been called up. Fearing air strikes at the moment. Desparately need a US no fly zone.

Ukraine has its own capable air force and air defense to resist. suggesting a pre-emptive US involvement could just escalate the situation.

 

[Davemania]

Putin really showing his true colours now. Not that most people didnt already realise what an utterly despicable piece of S H I T he really is

 

[Leekbrookgull]

Joining this thread late on,however is this not a trade off situation Putin knows/suspects most Ukrainians want EEC lifestyle but he cant allow the Black Sea ports to be handed over to Nato ? Therefore if he can hold on the the Crimea and it's ports he will settle for that ?

 

[wellquickwoody]

UK has warned that ministers will boycott that Paralympic Winter Games in Scochii next week.

Bet Putin is sh#tting himself now.....

 

[hybrid_x]

Putin really showing his true colours now. Not that most people didnt already realise what an utterly despicable piece of S H I T he really is

that's a highly intelligent offering to this thread......sigh.

can anyone coming from the telegraph, times, daily mail, or bbc...please p1ss off out of this thread so a serious debate can be had upon a game of poker occuring that could quickly turn into alot of death to many humans.

current players around the table:

Russian nationalists living in Ukraine.
Ukrainian nationalists livining in Ukraine.
Russia who love their gas pipes' revenue, boating playground in Crimea, and know the west is in serious economic trouble.
The West, who's central banks love another hundred million low paid workers........and who's nations need to help with "goverment debt" (note: not central bank debt).


At the moment - Putin has raised the stakes......and the West are yet to call, fold, or raise.

 

[Davemania]

that's a highly intelligent offering to this thread......sigh.

can anyone coming from the telegraph, times, daily mail, or bbc...please p1ss off out of this thread so a serious debate can be had upon a game of poker occuring that could quickly turn into alot of death to many humans.

current players around the table:

Russian nationalists living in Ukraine.
Ukrainian nationalists livining in Ukraine.
Russia who love their gas pipes' revenue, boating playground in Crimea, and know the west is in serious economic trouble.
The West, who's central banks love another hundred million low paid workers........and who's nations need to help with "goverment debt" (note: not central bank debt).


At the moment - Putin has raised the stakes......and the West are yet to call, fold, or raise.

Can any sneering, jumped up little pricks please shuffle off the nearest cliff. People are well aware of the complexities of political situations without the need of a silly little analogy about poker games. Putin has shown time and again what an utterly odious tosspot he is, much like yourself hybrid x

 

[Tom Bombadil]

that's a highly intelligent offering to this thread......sigh.

.

And yet of infinitely greater value to the discussion than anything you've contributed.

 

[Tom Bombadil]

Joining this thread late on,however is this not a trade off situation Putin knows/suspects most Ukrainians want EEC lifestyle but he cant allow the Black Sea ports to be handed over to Nato ? Therefore if he can hold on the the Crimea and it's ports he will settle for that ?

I reckon this is about right. Once Putin realised he couldn't control Ukraine through a Yanukovich style vassal he's taken the next best option. Russia really is stuck in a 19th century imperial mindset.

 

[Czechmate]

This may well be a part of the famous " Fog of War " or it may be quite a significant development. Just found this on the BBC's news ticker.

10:03: BBC Ukrainian editor Nina Kuryata in Kiev has received reports of Russian paratroopers threatening to storm Ukrainian army's marine battalion barracks in the village Perevalnoye, south of Simferopol. The battalion refused to hand in weapons and is preparing for assault.

Unfortunately vegster you only get a one sided view from the BBC , try RT News if you can get it , it is French I think but you get a more independent view , yesterday they had interviewed a man who was at the storming of parliament in Kiev who wanted to get rid off the old president yet he said a lot of the people there were outsiders trying to stir up the situation , 60 americans , 40 germans plus many others form Poland and other countries , just like Syria where locals were saying they were fighting against Assad alongside rich americans and other mercenaries .

 

[Czechmate]

I reckon this is about right. Once Putin realised he couldn't control Ukraine through a Yanukovich style vassal he's taken the next best option. Russia really is stuck in a 19th century imperial mindset.

Not sure this is true , many Ukrainians in the East , possibly the Ukraine majority do not want to be more European , I guess only an election would tell . Anyway I have many friends in Dnepropetrovsk , all they want is peace and were happy the way things were , they do not trust Americans and hate them , on the news last night there seem to be mass support for Russian influence in Dnepropetrovsk .

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Unfortunately vegster you only get a one sided view from the BBC , try RT News if you can get it , it is French I think but you get a more independent view , yesterday they had interviewed a man who was at the storming of parliament in Kiev who wanted to get rid off the old president yet he said a lot of the people there were outsiders trying to stir up the situation , 60 americans , 40 germans plus many others form Poland and other countries , just like Syria where locals were saying they were fighting against Assad alongside rich americans and other mercenaries .

RT News is French ? ? ?

It's Russian and stands for Russia Today.

Putin's mouthpiece

 

[algie]

Unfortunately vegster you only get a one sided view from the BBC , try RT News if you can get it , it is French I think but you get a more independent view , yesterday they had interviewed a man who was at the storming of parliament in Kiev who wanted to get rid off the old president yet he said a lot of the people there were outsiders trying to stir up the situation , 60 americans , 40 germans plus many others form Poland and other countries , just like Syria where locals were saying they were fighting against Assad alongside rich americans and other mercenaries .

Yes of course.A small handful of westerners and the CIA can destabilize a whole country and exile the Ukrainian president. Conspiracy at its best. Whatever next?

 

[Czechmate]

RT News is French ? ? ?

It's Russian and stands for Russia Today.

Putin's mouthpiece

Is it ? I admit I am wrong then , ok try 24 hrs and al jazeer then , be good to get a different view don't you think or don't you see that far

 

[RowleyBirkinQ.C(deceased)]

Unfortunately vegster you only get a one sided view from the BBC , try RT News if you can get it , it is French I think but you get a more independent view , yesterday they had interviewed a man who was at the storming of parliament in Kiev who wanted to get rid off the old president yet he said a lot of the people there were outsiders trying to stir up the situation , 60 americans , 40 germans plus many others form Poland and other countries , just like Syria where locals were saying they were fighting against Assad alongside rich americans and other mercenaries .

R.T stands for Russia today. And you think the B.B.C is biased?

 

[Czechmate]

Great , Hague visits Kiev , why don't he visit East Ukraine ? Get another view of the situation !

 

[daveinprague]

Russia will always need a strong president...that scares some people.
There was outside influence in the uprising, in the Ukraine, with more than one verified report of people being PAID by western agencies.
At least half of the Ukraine wants feck all to do with us...but people seem to think they should forget that, and become western.
There is evidence of far right groups in the Ukrainian problems, and to deny that would be a bit silly. Far right people are in the new Ukraine govt. Tbh, ive not seen the Russians do anything, that a western country in the same situation wouldnt do.

 

[Czechmate]

R.T stands for Russia today. And you think the B.B.C is biased?

Yes after looking at other international news channels on this situation.

And not RT

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

There is no getting away from the fact that in 1994 the UK and US ( and Russia! ) signed the Budapest Memorandum to garantee Ukraine's security in return for giving up it's nukes.

If Ukraine still had it's nukes there would not be 1 single russian soldier in Ukraine ( outside agreed bases ).

So why are Obama and Cameron seemingly walking away from the promises their countries made?

The Memorandum wasn't about boycotting a G8 meeting or not going to the paralympics. Pathetic to be honest.

 

[Czechmate]

There is no getting away from the fact that in 1994 the UK and US ( and Russia! ) signed the Budapest Memorandum to garantee Ukraine's security in return for giving up it's nukes.

If Ukraine still had it's nukes there would not be 1 single russian soldier in Ukraine ( outside agreed bases ).

So why are Obama and Cameron seemingly walking away from the promises their countries made?


The Memorandum wasn't about boycotting a G8 meeting or not going to the paralympics.

I guess Russia is (to them) trying to keep Ukraine's security , it is not just Crimea that wants to stay under Russian influence it is most of East Ukraine which is probably the majority of Ukrainians . So I would say the US and the UK think the same about West Ukraine , so it's a no win situation . As for the Paralympics then really the US and UK should support their athletes , politics shouldn't come into it , these athletes , as in the winter Olympics have worked and trained tirelessly over the years to achieve what they have and have now been let down .

The G8 meeting is a good time to sort things out , talk with all parties , don't turn your back it does no one any good !