Civil War Brewing in the Ukraine?

[Blue Valkyrie]

About time for Obama to stand up and be counted. Seems to have ripped up the agreement to guarantee Ukraine's territorial security in return for losing their nukes. ( applies to you as well Cameron ).

Really need to draw a line and stop appeasing Putin.

Or he could just not go to the G8 in Sochi.

 

[drew]

As much as the intervention of the soviet military is unwelcome from a world wide point of view, you have to ask the question what exactly is Ukraine's legitimate claim to Crimea bearing in mind it only became part of the region under the auspices of the USSR and, technically, probably only part of a country following the breakup of the Soviet Union in the 1990s. In other words, it has only been part of a fully independent Ukraine since about 1992.

The point is, at the end of the day, so what if the majority of Crimea want to be part of the USSR (sorry, Russia). Let them. After all, we are all for self determination for the people of the Falklands. Crimea becomes part of Russia and Ukraine is independent and probably with closer ties to the Europe.

 

[vegster]

As much as the intervention of the soviet military is unwelcome from a world wide point of view, you have to ask the question what exactly is Ukraine's legitimate claim to Crimea bearing in mind it only became part of the region under the auspices of the USSR and, technically, probably only part of a country following the breakup of the Soviet Union in the 1990s. In other words, it has only been part of a fully independent Ukraine since about 1992.

The point is, at the end of the day, so what if the majority of Crimea want to be part of the USSR (sorry, Russia). Let them. After all, we are all for self determination for the people of the Falklands. Crimea becomes part of Russia and Ukraine is independent and probably with closer ties to the Europe.

I think the point is that Ukrainian people are not to bothered about the Crimea, their beef is with the corruption and possible voting irregularities and their desire for closer ties with the EU. Russia, er, rather Mr Putin, does not want Ukraine looking westward so is using the "fears " of the majority Russian citizens in Crimea as a stick to beat the whole of Ukraine and keep it in check.There is not going to be any sort of war between Ukraine and Crimea unless Putin starts it by moving troops in to the Crimea under a pretence.
This is a cynical attempt from Putin to crush democracy and change.

 

[drew]

I think the point is that Ukrainian people are not to bothered about the Crimea, their beef is with the corruption and possible voting irregularities and their desire for closer ties with the EU. Russia, er, rather Mr Putin, does not want Ukraine looking westward so is using the "fears " of the majority Russian citizens in Crimea as a stick to beat the whole of Ukraine and keep it in check.There is not going to be any sort of war between Ukraine and Crimea unless Putin starts it by moving troops in to the Crimea under a pretence.
This is a cynical attempt from Putin to crush democracy and change.

Firstly, there are already russian troops in the Crimea. Secondly, if Ukraine says sod it, we don't need Crimea they can go their own way. Putin can tenuously claim that the autonomous government of Crimea called him in but he can't do that in Ukraine.

 

[vegster]

From the BBC......

In Donetsk, Mr Yanukovych's traditional stronghold, demonstrators from a crowd of some 7,000 tried unsuccessfully to occupy the regional administration building, raising a Russian tricolour on a nearby flag-post

In Kharkiv, Ukraine's second-biggest city, dozens of people were injured after scuffles between pro- and anti-Russian protesters broke out outside the regional administration building

IN Mariupol, in the south-east, hundreds of protesters carrying Russian flags gathered outside the city council in eastern and southern Ukraine.

So, in a nutshell, ethnic Russians in Ukraine are causing unrest in Ukraine and Mr Putin is going to rush to their aid. Trouble is, Putin will get away with it.

 

[vegster]

Firstly, there are already russian troops in the Crimea. Secondly, if Ukraine says sod it, we don't need Crimea they can go their own way. Putin can tenuously claim that the autonomous government of Crimea called him in but he can't do that in Ukraine.

He is going to use the Crimea as an excuse to enter and control the whole of Ukraine.

 

[Tom Bombadil]

I doubt they will show this in any UK media....

http://www.sott.net/article/274834-...ed-by-open-Nazis-who-follow-Bandera-tradition

I got as far as reading that the expert was Mrs Larouche. It's amazing you dismiss out of hand so much yet will swallow whole stuff churned out by, and I'm being charitable here, eccentric fringe groups.
Here's a taster of the article to gove folks an idea of how credible that link is

"t then you also have this eruption of Nazi organizations which are really run by the British because in the post-war period Nazi collaborators were not prosecuted despite the fact that they had killed tens of thousands of Jews and Polish people and Ukrainian communists. But they were taken over by MI6, and also Allan Dallas [ed: Allan Dulles], and later they were taken over by General Gehlen from the organization of the BND (Bundesnachrichtendienst).

So these are not honest people, but this is an operation by the British Empire to destabilize Russia"

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Alledgedly ( according to Ukrainian news, not yet on BBC ) Ukraine has finally asked for EU, US and NATO help against the Russian insurgence. Let's hope Obama is strong and doesn't let them down.

 

[beorhthelm]

He is going to use the Crimea as an excuse to enter and control the whole of Ukraine.

i dont think so. look at the geography and a little of the history, Crimea is a different kettle of fish to the rest of Ukraine. it practically is Russian, only an artifact of bureaucrats have deemed it that side of the border. as far as i can tell theres strongly ethincally Russian/pro-Russian groups in many other eastern areas. However, this isnt Georgia, its population is 40m+ and the largest country in Europe after Russia itself. they have a substantial armed forces, including a creditable airforce. sure, they'd lose in all out war against their big cousin, but they would give Russia a bloody nose. though i wonder if they worry about the loyalty of their forces, hence havent put them on full alert at this point. eitherway, very high risk for Putin to go in the the Ukrainian mainland. Taking Crimea will do for him.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Make no mistake Putin is going for the whole of Ukraine. The western regions are preparing for war ( according to those there ). Only the US can stop this now.

 

[Hyperion]

Make no mistake Putin is going for the whole of Ukraine. The western regions are preparing for war ( according to those there ). Only the US can stop this now.

Russia hold a few Ace cards.

However, Putin knows this but this could, as you hint, could hint to a very serious war that could affect the whole of Europe.

This is the biggest threat to peace in our part of the world since WW2 in my opinion

 

[vegster]

Make no mistake Putin is going for the whole of Ukraine. The western regions are preparing for war ( according to those there ). Only the US can stop this now.

Very much this. Excuses have been manufactured in the good old Soviet style in such a way that Russia can enter greater Ukraine in the role of " peacekeepers " in order to "defend" ethnic Russians. It's like we have just reversed 40 years in time.

 

[Ernest]

If they did go into the Ukraine by force then the Russians can kiss goodbye to the World Cup in 2018

 

[Hyperion]

If they did go into the Ukraine by force then the Russians can kiss goodbye to the World Cup in 2018

Not sure at that stage a world cup anywhere would be that important.

The You Crane IS a major supplier of SAUSAGE
Produce IN Yourrope

 

[daveinprague]

The Russians couldnt give a shit what people think...
Whole bunch of MI28s in broad daylight at low level was designed to show that.

 

[Hyperion]

The Russians couldnt give a shit what people think...
Whole bunch of MI28s in broad daylight at low level was designed to show that.

Evil wanke* that Putin. I do fear for the Ukraine. A vastly under funded Army and no immediate back up to hand

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

The 1994 Budapest Memorandem whereby Ukraine surrendered its nukes in return for garantees about security from the US and UK ( and Russia ) appears to be in tatters.

One thing is for sure, if Ukraine still had it's missiles, there wouldn't be one single member of Putin's army there now.

 

[pastafarian]

I doubt they will show this in any UK media....

http://www.sott.net/article/274834-...ed-by-open-Nazis-who-follow-Bandera-tradition

Do you even bother to read the articles you post?

from the article

"this is an operation by the British Empire to destabilize Russia"

1/ This is 2014 not 1853
2/ We still have an empire?

 

[hybrid_x]

2/ We still have an empire?

research what the Bank of England is.....a massive empire......empires are now central bank based..........but seems you've been asleep or following the BBC's horrific propaganda.

So people on here wanted british troops in the falklands to protect english people but moan at russian troops protecting russians?

 

[sparkie]

G8 looks like being G6 with Canada indicating it will pull out as well.

All the money and time spent on the PR for the Winter Olympics to show Russia in a positive light thrown away by Putin in just a few days.