Burma

[Napper]

no oil arguement is so wank.

 

[Lokki 7]

no oil arguement is so wank.

Yes, your wank argument is much more convincing.

 

[Nibble]

Well, the US probably are involved in Burma considering Burma's soaring fuel prices were the catalyst for the demonstrataions. As for Eastleigh's little rant about my point of view being a nutjob's opinion he obviously has a lot to learn about the way conflict and resolution works and has no clue as to the meaning of research probably due to the fact that he believes all that he reads and sees in mainstream media (most of which is part owned and financed by companies like Shell oil). Mainstream media can often tell you what has happened, albeit a sanitised version but it rarely tells you why it happened.When you google these ideas you get a slew of frankly ridiculous conspiracy theories but what you have to do is research their sources, decide if they are credible(most of them wont be) follow up those sources that are credible and what most of them agree is that the US instigates and gets involved in world conflict for financial gain.
Eastleigh is confusing the questioninng of the Us's involvement with world conflict with conspiracy theory. Probably because he lacks the understanding to research things for himself and prefers and feels safer to quote soundbytes fed to him by major news corporations. I don't think he can afford to be that naive.

 

[Nibble]

I dont know why you bothered putting it up once to be honest. Of course I know nothing of the global conspiracy involving every US president, every US company, etc etc. etc.

That's because I have just over half a brain and have better and more important things to do with my time than try and link the World Wildlife Fund with 9/11 (I am sure you can do that somehow - that is as long as 9/11 wasnt faked by the US govt in order to take over Persia).

Honestly - you started off with the usual, slightly irrational but nevertheless mainstream anti-US diatribe, and have now descended into full blown nutball land. Something which is basically impossible to argue against because anything I say means I am just falling for the conspiracy as any source that states something different is of course part of the grand plan.

Also I doubt anyone would think you are part of the grand plan due to the fact that even you seem too daft to thnk of anything beyond the lies fed to you by the media and the US.

Even the US admitted they lied about WMD's. Doesn't the fact that America has institutions like Guantanomo Bay, deliberatly placed below US borders so it cannot be inspected tell you anything?

 

[Hatterlovesbrighton]

Well, the US probably are involved in Burma considering Burma's soaring fuel prices were the catalyst for the demonstrataions. As for Eastleigh's little rant about my point of view being a nutjob's opinion he obviously has a lot to learn about the way conflict and resolution works and has no clue as to the meaning of research probably due to the fact that he believes all that he reads and sees in mainstream media (most of which is part owned and financed by companies like Shell oil). Mainstream media can often tell you what has happened, albeit a sanitised version but it rarely tells you why it happened.When you google these ideas you get a slew of frankly ridiculous conspiracy theories but what you have to do is research their sources, decide if they are credible(most of them wont be) follow up those sources that are credible and what most of them agree is that the US instigates and gets involved in world conflict for financial gain.
Eastleigh is confusing the questioninng of the Us's involvement with world conflict with conspiracy theory. Probably because he lacks the understanding to research things for himself and prefers and feels safer to quote soundbytes fed to him by major news corporations. I don't think he can afford to be that naive.

But what makes you decide if something is credible or not?

 

[Nibble]

But what makes you decide if something is credible or not?

The same as how you decide if anyone is credible. You look at who is saying it, what reason they would have to say it, would they have a grievance, would they be objective, subjective etc.

 

[MattBackHome]

Ever so slightly off-topic, I know (forgive me), but I've 'waded' into Burma before - quite literally in fact as my first steps onto Burmese land were coming off a boat. I bought a carton of the cheapest and most harsh, cancerous cigarettes going (Paris - 'Exquisite Selection')as well as loads of fake viagra for resale purposes back in Thailand, and was on my merry way.

 

[Nibble]

Ever so slightly off-topic, I know (forgive me), but I've 'waded' into Burma before - quite literally in fact as my first steps onto Burmese land were coming off a boat. I bought a carton of the cheapest and most harsh, cancerous cigarettes going (Paris - 'Exquisite Selection')as well as loads of fake viagra for resale purposes back in Thailand, and was on my merry way.

Probably exactly what the US troops will do when they get there

 

[Eastleigh Seagull]

Well, the US probably are involved in Burma considering Burma's soaring fuel prices were the catalyst for the demonstrataions. As for Eastleigh's little rant about my point of view being a nutjob's opinion he obviously has a lot to learn about the way conflict and resolution works and has no clue as to the meaning of research probably due to the fact that he believes all that he reads and sees in mainstream media (most of which is part owned and financed by companies like Shell oil). Mainstream media can often tell you what has happened, albeit a sanitised version but it rarely tells you why it happened.When you google these ideas you get a slew of frankly ridiculous conspiracy theories but what you have to do is research their sources, decide if they are credible(most of them wont be) follow up those sources that are credible and what most of them agree is that the US instigates and gets involved in world conflict for financial gain.
Eastleigh is confusing the questioninng of the Us's involvement with world conflict with conspiracy theory. Probably because he lacks the understanding to research things for himself and prefers and feels safer to quote soundbytes fed to him by major news corporations. I don't think he can afford to be that naive.

Oh of course the demos in Burma were nothing to do with the lack of democracy in the country or the brutal suppression by the military leadership - the monks and Suu Kyi's party are only really worried about the price of petrol.

I do appreciate you passing judgement on my reseaching capabilities and my intellect - thankfully others hold my capability in a higher regard than you do - including those in the mainstream media and multinational companies.

You almost have the truth there, well done - a first for you today. The media reports the news - it does not and should not explain why the news occurs - indeed when the BBC and others try to interpret it they, rightly, get criticised for media bias. Look at the David Kelly fiasco.

Mainstream media dont report bizarre theories like the WWF being a tool of Hitler or the Jewish bankers ruling the world (you say you dont agree with this but it is an intrinsic part of the other theories you were espousing) because they arent news - they are the opinions of a few disaffected and frankly disturbed people. it is the same people who promote the belief that 9/11 was a CIA Mossad put up job and that there were no Jews in the Towers on 9/11. Nice to read as a laugh but to be honest verging on being dangerous and frankly offensive.

 

[Nibble]

Oh of course the demos in Burma were nothing to do with the lack of democracy in the country or the brutal suppression by the military leadership - the monks and Suu Kyi's party are only really worried about the price of petrol.

I do appreciate you passing judgement on my reseaching capabilities and my intellect - thankfully others hold my capability in a higher regard than you do - including those in the mainstream media and multinational companies.

You almost have the truth there, well done - a first for you today. The media reports the news - it does not and should not explain why the news occurs - indeed when the BBC and others try to interpret it they, rightly, get criticised for media bias. Look at the David Kelly fiasco.

Mainstream media dont report bizarre theories like the WWF being a tool of Hitler or the Jewish bankers ruling the world (you say you dont agree with this but it is an intrinsic part of the other theories you were espousing) because they arent news - they are the opinions of a few disaffected and frankly disturbed people. it is the same people who promote the belief that 9/11 was a CIA Mossad put up job and that there were no Jews in the Towers on 9/11. Nice to read as a laugh but to be honest verging on being dangerous and frankly offensive.

Actually the Jewish banking theory is not intrinsic to the financial monolith that is the US banking system and You are getting confused with conspiracy theories and financial and corporate facts. I can view media and it's sources objectively as well as digging a bit deeper and researching the reasons behind events.

However, you seem intent on dismissing any source except the views you have gathered from a very limited news and media source. To discover aspects of US involvement in certain situations for oneself and to subscribe to innane conspiracy theories are two differant things and for you to label me a nutjob for researching things you cannot be bothered to find for yourself is very narrow minded.

Why don't you have a look at some writings and spoken word essays by Jello Biafra. They are a very good starting point for discovering some of the USA's global and domestic legislation that you won't find in the mainstream reports.

 

[Eastleigh Seagull]

Actually the Jewish banking theory is not intrinsic to the financial monolith that is the US banking system and You are getting confused with conspiracy theories and financial and corporate facts. I can view media and it's sources objectively as well as digging a bit deeper and researching the reasons behind events.

However, you seem intent on dismissing any source except the views you have gathered from a very limited news and media source. To discover aspects of US involvement in certain situations for oneself and to subscribe to innane conspiracy theories are two differant things and for you to label me a nutjob for researching things you cannot be bothered to find for yourself is very narrow minded.

Why don't you have a look at some writings and spoken word essays by Jello Biafra. They are a very good starting point for discovering some of the USA's global and domestic legislation that you won't find in the mainstream reports.

I dont dismiss anyone's opinions - you are right - I cant afford to - my job relies on getting these things right. But as you suggest I look at sources and then make a judgement as to their reliability. Unfortunately a failed pop singer who is now a self proclaimed anarchist who can only make a name for himself by spouting misinformed rubbish isnt high on my list of reliable sources.

As I said hours ago - no one can win an argument against those of your mindset as we base our arguments on facts - unfortunately facts are not the tool of the trade of those who talk about the US financial monolith, that the WWF is a Nazi tool, and that the World Bank and all the major multinational corporations are in collusion. Tell me - what did you do before the internet was invented?

 

[Nibble]

I dont dismiss anyone's opinions - you are right - I cant afford to - my job relies on getting these things right. But as you suggest I look at sources and then make a judgement as to their reliability. Unfortunately a failed pop singer who is now a self proclaimed anarchist who can only make a name for himself by spouting misinformed rubbish isnt high on my list of reliable sources.

As I said hours ago - no one can win an argument against those of your mindset as we base our arguments on facts - unfortunately facts are not the tool of the trade of those who talk about the US financial monolith, that the WWF is a Nazi tool, and that the World Bank and all the major multinational corporations are in collusion. Tell me - what did you do before the internet was invented?

Actually I don't get much of my information from the internet and what I do get is not from conspiracy sites.

Jello Biafra is, by the way, not a failed pop singer he was the lead singer in one of America's most succesful punk bands. But that is by the by.

I will try and put it simply for you. Parents do not tell children every fact of situations that may affect the child. This may be because they feel the child could not handle the information (probably true) or that by telling them every fact they would reveal themselves to be not as perfect as they would like to be seen. Perhaps these facts might show the parent in a bad light.

Some people who have a boss know that things are discussed in the higher echelons of the company that affects the staff but would rather not have their staff know about it. Perhaps the boss made a bad business decision and no pay rises are given that year. The boss is unlikely to admit the mistake, more likely to explain it away to staff.

The media and governments work in much the same way. Treating people as children or subordinates as they know the truth is unlikely to endear them towards the government or corporations wielding disproportiante power over world economies.

As Abraham Lincoln said " If the people knew how the banks and government made money every US citizen would be on the steps of the Whitehouse tomorrow demanding revolution".

 

[Nibble]

Anyway, gotta go now. I have enjoyed this though and I do mean that.

 

[beorhthelm]

As Abraham Lincoln said " If the people knew how the banks and government made money every US citizen would be on the steps of the Whitehouse tomorrow demanding revolution".

go on, your dieing to tell us all: how do the banks make their money? (preferably in a new thread though eh?)

 

[Eastleigh Seagull]

Congratulations - you have won. I have lost the will to live let alone debate with you - I am just glad that you have the courage of your convictions to maintain your point of view over the years in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary - and of course you have provided entertainment - particularly with the WWF accusation - a new one on most here I should imagine.

It may be a cliche but just remember you are lucky to live in a free society that allows you to hold and promote such views - unfortunately those in Burma arent - hence why they are protesting. Not because the US has singlehandedly hiked the global price of oil

 

[Questions]

Congratulations - you have won. I have lost the will to live let alone debate with you - I am just glad that you have the courage of your convictions to maintain your point of view over the years in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary - and of course you have provided entertainment - particularly with the WWF accusation - a new one on most here I should imagine.

It may be a cliche but just remember you are lucky to live in a free society that allows you to hold and promote such views - unfortunately those in Burma arent - hence why they are protesting. Not because the US has singlehandedly hiked the global price of oil

If you are going to argue with Nipples then you will need plenty of stamina.... He does go on a bit.
He sees the USA as the 4th Reich.

 

[supaseagull]

In answer to both Questions and Eastleigh. It is you two who need to look at the facts of the US involvement in world affairs since 1912. There really is too much to it to go into detail here but if you scratch the surface of Us involvement it is apparent that they profit enourmously from both instigating and becoming involved in conflicts across the globe. The amount of large American conglomorates such as Smithkline and Ford that have funded and benefited from other people's suffering is staggering. You must also remember that these corporations have deep roots in the American government and have direct influence on American foreign policy.

It is true that the US have not been overtly involved in the Burma situation but this is an example of a situation they would gladly take advantage of. Deploying troops under the guise of NATO and the UN as well as their own military forces into troubled areas as a "peacekeeping" force is a well practiced tactic of the US and it's allies and once military rule is declared in that region they effectively become the government. It is only a very short step to these forces then taking control of the supply of their natural reources.

As for the Russians being in the role of World Police do you not think it is remarkable that the allies handed over so many territories to them in the divisions of the aftermath of WW2? The US certainly benefitted from their being in power and communism. It gave them a ready made common enemy and through the Cold War allowed the US to limit many people's freedoms in the name of freedom.

Of course, the motives of these actions can be disputed but the influence of financial institutions, corporations and ultimately the US Government on world events cannot be disputed and one should at least question the involvement of these bodies in world affairs. All these facts can be researched in depth and not just on crackpot conspiracy theory sites. The facts really are staggering, especially regarding financial policies of the US.

Yeah - I heard the b*stards are hiding aliens from us aswell

 

[Fixtures]

If you are going to argue with Nipples then you will need plenty of stamina.... He does go on a bit.
He sees the USA as the 4th Reich.

Anyone would think he has an inferiority complex regarding the US.

 

[Yorkie]

Very interesting article about oil in Burma here

http://www.tompaine.com/articles/2006/09/26/big_oil_trumps_freedom.php

 

[Nibble]

If you saw the news last night it appears Bush is imposing economic sanctions on Burmese government, which must mean the US has no financial or economic power over there at all eh?

Also as I predicted the UN is going in. Prepare yourselves everyone, The aliens are coming to join the lizard people! Only Jello Biafra can save us now! Run to the hills!