Burma

[Rambo]

I think they are waiting for Rambo to sort it out in 'Rambo 4' released in January, set in Burma.

 

[Nibble]

Oh please. Next thing you know you will be talking about sects meeting in the woods and the great Jewish banking conspiracy and the royal family are all from Mars.

All this becuase someone actually questioned your criticism of why the US isnt getting involved in Burma. Sure the US isnt blameless over the last 90 years (although 1912 is an odd date to pick) but on this issue, which is what the thread was about - you are in the wrong. Your facts were wrong. Fact.

Burma has money and natural resources - hence why India and China are so ingrained in the country.

You cant say the US has a responsiblity to act as a global policeman and then criticise them when they act - or when they dont act.

I never said US has a resonsibility to act as a global policeman, don't think I implied it. Anyway I don't think they have that responsibility.

The facts that I have pointed out about America's involvement are not conspiracies and when I get time I will find you some links so that you can have look for yourself. I have no belief in Jewish banking conspiracies, I beleive that is anti-semitic propoganda.

On any other issue you do not seem to be open to any other viewpoint except what is reported in main stream media and more fool you.

 

[Simster]

Eastleigh, I think the problem with the US is that they pick and choose who they police based on US interests - they peddle lies as to why they are getting involved when they do, and simply ignore areas where they are not the major player.

 

[Lokki 7]

Oh please. Next thing you know you will be talking about sects meeting in the woods and the great Jewish banking conspiracy and the royal family are all from Mars.

So you don't think that America acts in it's own commercial interest then? Personally I would say that is a very naive viewpoint. As for the "conspiracies", the jewish influence on the banking system, particularly in the first half of the 20th century, is very significant. I don't know if they meet in the woods though.
Going back to topic, the thought of the military opening fire on the monks and protesters makes me sick to my stomach and I pray that China are doing everything they can behind the scenes to ensure that this does not happen.

 

[Nibble]

I would suggest a few on here could do with switching off CNN and doing some of their own research, it doesn't take much to unearth many FACTS that the US and others would rather people be ill informed about.

 

[Hatterlovesbrighton]

It always worries me when the American bashing gets so bad that they forget about the obvious history and try to find the bizarre underlying reasons why.

America being isolationists doesn't work. Them not entering the league of nations after WW1 made it always destined to fail and do you really think Hitler would have had the balls to invade Europe if he thought the Americans would intervene immedietly. The most obvious fact though is that without them we would almost certainly have been invaded by Russia and turned into a communist puppet state like the rest of Europe.

 

[Nibble]

It always worries me when the American bashing gets so bad that they forget about the obvious history and try to find the bizarre underlying reasons why.

America being isolationists doesn't work. Them not entering the league of nations after WW1 made it always destined to fail and do you really think Hitler would have had the balls to invade Europe if he thought the Americans would intervene immedietly. The most obvious fact though is that without them we would almost certainly have been invaded by Russia and turned into a communist puppet state like the rest of Europe.

If you did just a tiny bit of research you would find that these reasons are not bizarre. Far from it, they are rational in the extreme and very well reasoned by the US and it's allies.

As for Russia turning us into a puppet state, what do you thnk the US is doing?

America is not trying to be an isolationist power, it needs people to support it on a global scale, hence the unified "peacekeeping forces".

You need to look at the motives behing these actions. But if you don't want to do your research you can always sit back and be surprised when you have less and less human rights and more restrictions as governments covince you that it is all in the name of world protection.

Hitler used military rule to enforce his party, he burned down the reichstag and blamed it on the communists and most people in Germany and nearly all the free world thought he was doing a marvelous job and that he was just protecting his country form communists. People just could not believe that this wonderful man that had done so much for Germany would do anything to harm it's citizens. No reason why this could not hapen again. And yes, i am comparing Bush to Hitler.

 

[Eastleigh Seagull]

Some semblance of rationality comes into the debate at last.

Simster - aboslutely I agree - America only gets involved in areas where it has a sphere of influence - Burma is not one of these. Instead of slating the US for not getting invovled pressure should be placed on China and India to publicly condemn the miltiary dictatorship instead of taking what they can from the country and 'working behind the scenes'.

And if the US did get involved, not only would it trigger a massive conflict also invovling China but every Guardianista in reaching distance of a keyboard would be complaining that they are an evil imperialist power interfering in areas that are none of their business - ignoring of course the military junta and its torture and killing of the protestors. And this is another case where the UN has placed a lot of effort to try and solve the crisis and has proven yet again to be utterly ineffective as the Burmese leadership know the UN will not resort to force.

Nibble - still waiting for any facts from you. your first one about oil and money was the only firm statement you have made apart from generic anti-US ranting and that fact was wrong.

 

[Eastleigh Seagull]

Hitler used military rule to enforce his party, he burned down the reichstag and blamed it on the communists and most people in Germany and nearly all the free world thought he was doing a marvelous job and that he was just protecting his country form communists. People just could not believe that this wonderful man that had done so much for Germany would do anything to harm it's citizens. No reason why this could not hapen again. And yes, i am comparing Bush to Hitler.

Awesome - so we are just a few steps away from Bush burning down Congress, blaming the Burmese/Communists/Arabs and changing the US constitution so he can be President for life? Or of course he could be out of the White House in 15 months and you need to find some other target to feed you paranoia?

 

[Nibble]

Some semblance of rationality comes into the debate at last.

Simster - aboslutely I agree - America only gets involved in areas where it has a sphere of influence - Burma is not one of these. Instead of slating the US for not getting invovled pressure should be placed on China and India to publicly condemn the miltiary dictatorship instead of taking what they can from the country and 'working behind the scenes'.

And if the US did get involved, not only would it trigger a massive conflict also invovling China but every Guardianista in reaching distance of a keyboard would be complaining that they are an evil imperialist power interfering in areas that are none of their business - ignoring of course the military junta and its torture and killing of the protestors. And this is another case where the UN has placed a lot of effort to try and solve the crisis and has proven yet again to be utterly ineffective as the Burmese leadership know the UN will not resort to force.

Nibble - still waiting for any facts from you. your first one about oil and money was the only firm statement you have made apart from generic anti-US ranting and that fact was wrong.

Eastleigh, any facts i give you will be written off I am sure. i will try to get you some links as I have said but I am certain that if I was to merely write what I have researched without giving you referances you will dismiss it so ther ereally is no point.

I have already admitted my mistake about Burma, and when corrected gave my opinion. I don't believe I have ranted.

There are some people who believe that world events and war/conflict occurs by global design and cooperation and there are others that believe it all happens independently, almost a series of mistakes that escalate to conflict.

I believe in the former. You evidently do not and you will always have the upper hand because the resources you need to back up your arguments are perpetrated on the news everyday. The evidence I can offer is a little harder to find and will always be dismissed by people who believe in the latter as crackpot theories.

I urge you to look into the FACTS about Henry Ford, World Wildlife Fund, The world bank and on and on and on. You will see that they really do play a hand in global decisions.

 

[Eastleigh Seagull]

You could at least provide some of these 'facts' to allow other people to give their opinion on them? And chucking in the panda lovers is a masterstroke - even I have never heard of them being involved in global machinations of war and destruction.

 

[Nibble]

Awesome - so we are just a few steps away from Bush burning down Congress, blaming the Burmese/Communists/Arabs and changing the US constitution so he can be President for life? Or of course he could be out of the White House in 15 months and you need to find some other target to feed you paranoia?

Ok. If you want to bang on about paranoia etc while I am just encouraging you to educate yourself about some things you may not be aware of then there really is not much point in having this discussion. Just have a look at some sites about American financial arrangements and how they were founded.

 

[beorhthelm]

will you all grow up with the "no oil" shit. cant you come up with other reasons? anyway, is there no oil? i thought there was. id say its a big country thats largely unexplored for resources and could have lots there.

So, the US only goes where they have a interest. what a surprise. lets just think about the alternative: the US send in forces everywhere, whenever there is any civil unrest. does anyone actually want to promot the idea of the US as "the world police"? is it our place in the West to impose our systems of government on everyone in our way, on our terms?

 

[Eastleigh Seagull]

Brilliant - just done a basic google on WWF, Ford and the World Bank. After a few pages of wrestling facts and trivia you come across a conspiracy site - The Project for the Exposure of Hidden Institutions.

Apparently every major event in recent history is linked and comes back to the bildeburg group and Prince Philip...naturally Bin Laden is in there as well. And the central person is Prince Barnard of the Netherlands. Its all to do with tapping Africa's resources and generally making this group rich beyond belief while starting the odd war here and there.

Not quite sure how the WWF are invovled - something to do with Philip being the Chairman of it and it basically being a cover for rich people to meet. It must all be fact because the WWF took five weeks to reply to a question from the chap who wrote the article when they promise to reply to all queries in two weeks. The fact that the question was about global conspiracy as opposed to how to save a whale may have thrown them of course.

So now we know why the US isnt intervening in Burma.

 

[Nibble]

You could at least provide some of these 'facts' to allow other people to give their opinion on them? And chucking in the panda lovers is a masterstroke - even I have never heard of them being involved in global machinations of war and destruction.

Of course you haven't heard of their influence. You know nothing about how the US used the suffering of others to claim a stronghold on global finances.

Three of the founding memebers of the WWF were members of the Nazi party, the others were US businessmen and it was established to make parts of countryside no-go areas, forcing citizens into more and more densly populated areas. Making the countryside safer for invading armies and making it easier to control population that was now in a relatively small area. The areas were then drained of their natural resources. A joint venture between the Nazis and the US

The US gave Glaxo-Smithklyne- Beecham the contract for innoculation in Iraq schools (and many developing countries that owe America massive debts, and America holds their resources ransom as they struggle to pay off these debts)
Many smaller companies offered to go to these countries and innoculate the children for free. The US claimed GSB was the only company able to acheive the task. They messed up and made many children ill. The US renewed their contract and they keep messing up. Each time they mess up they have to keep going back and the US pays them every time. The Bush family are major stakeholders in GSB.

You may ask what this has to do with war? Well, these two small examples clearly demonstrate that the US makes a vast amount of money from war and suffering and it is in their interests to become involved with these global events.

 

[Nibble]

You could at least provide some of these 'facts' to allow other people to give their opinion on them? And chucking in the panda lovers is a masterstroke - even I have never heard of them being involved in global machinations of war and destruction.

Of course you haven't heard of their influence. You know nothing about how the US used the suffering of others to claim a stronghold on global finances.

Three of the founding memebers of the WWF were members of the Nazi party, the others were US businessmen and it was established to make parts of countryside no-go areas, forcing citizens into more and more densly populated areas. Making the countryside safer for invading armies and making it easier to control population that was now in a relatively small area. The areas were then drained of their natural resources. A joint venture between the Nazis and the US

The US gave Glaxo-Smithklyne- Beecham the contract for innoculation in Iraq schools (and many developing countries that owe America massive debts, and America holds their resources ransom as they struggle to pay off these debts)
Many smaller companies offered to go to these countries and innoculate the children for free. The US claimed GSB was the only company able to acheive the task. They messed up and made many children ill. The US renewed their contract and they keep messing up. Each time they mess up they have to keep going back and the US pays them every time. The Bush family are major stakeholders in GSB.

You may ask what this has to do with war? Well, these two small examples clearly demonstrate that the US makes a vast amount of money from war and suffering and it is in their interests to become involved with these global events.

 

[Nibble]

don't kno wwhy that cam up twice. sorry.

 

[Eastleigh Seagull]

I dont know why you bothered putting it up once to be honest. Of course I know nothing of the global conspiracy involving every US president, every US company, etc etc. etc.

That's because I have just over half a brain and have better and more important things to do with my time than try and link the World Wildlife Fund with 9/11 (I am sure you can do that somehow - that is as long as 9/11 wasnt faked by the US govt in order to take over Persia).

Honestly - you started off with the usual, slightly irrational but nevertheless mainstream anti-US diatribe, and have now descended into full blown nutball land. Something which is basically impossible to argue against because anything I say means I am just falling for the conspiracy as any source that states something different is of course part of the grand plan.

 

[Barrel of Fun]

I make a monthly donation to WWF. Am I going to hell?

 

[Mr Blobby]

will you all grow up with the "no oil" shit. cant you come up with other reasons? ?

But when you look an American intervention in the middle east then it is all down to oil and money and the protection of Israel and Saudia Arabia, which has heavy US investment.

Burma and Darfur, I expect 99% of Americans have no idea where they are or what is going on!

I dont think that the US should act alone in any conflicts, but the UN is a waste of space, if you look at the majority of peacekeeping forces they are usually powerless to do anything.

China has the biggest responsibility over Burma even if only down to geographical reasons, and they could put enough pressure on the Burma dictatorship to prevent any massacres, but we all know that wont happen as China probably has more human rights abuses than any other country and its reward = the Olympic games and the womens world cup!

I have no doubt that if the USA had been involved in Burma then we would be discussing as to what the f*** has Burma got to do with the USA!