Brezovan just a talented amateur

[Barrel of Fun]

I didn't see it live, but it is pretty much instaneous between the drop and the goal. The ball bounced off the wall and came down from a great height. The striker was running in from somewhere in the box and scored after the first bounce of the dropped ball. It should be on SSN again soon, I would imagine.

 

[Acker79]

Rubbish, him being in goal has literally nothing to do with Glenn Murray scoring at the other end.

I forgot, like in the NFL, we have two teams - one for defending and Glenn Murray for attack. How silly of me.

I firmly doubt he puched it all the way up field for us to score, I think you're doing a few other players a great disservice by forgetting their contribution.

I didn't intend to intimate that he had set up the goal direct with his punch, but the move was started by him punching the ball to get things going as someone else had mentioned in the thread. I didn't see the point of repeating their post.

The only difference today to the last few games is that the mistakes lead to goals, usually he gets away with them. How many examples would you need before you start listening? If you're going to pretend to be blind to his short comings as a goalkeeper and convince yourself he's something he's actually not, then you are (eventually) going to be rudely awoken.

Apparently I'm not making myself clear. I'm not saying he doesn't make mistakes. I'm not blind to his shortcomings. I am looking at the big picture. We currently win more frequently with him in goal. Despite his short comings.

I am not going to suddenly one day be surprised by his faults.

As long as the team is winning, I don't see the need to change it.

 

[Ninja Elephant]

I forgot, like in the NFL, we have two teams - one for defending and Glenn Murray for attack. How silly of me.



I didn't intend to intimate that he had set up the goal direct with his punch, but the move was started by him punching the ball to get things going as someone else had mentioned in the thread. I didn't see the point of repeating their post.



Apparently I'm not making myself clear. I'm not saying he doesn't make mistakes. I'm not blind to his shortcomings. I am looking at the big picture. We currently win more frequently with him in goal. Despite his short comings.

I am not going to suddenly one day be surprised by his faults.

As long as the team is winning, I don't see the need to change it.

I completely disagree with just about everything you've posted there. I don't think a hopeless goalkeeper conceeding 2 goals against any team capable of scoring against us means his presence has anything to do with why we've done ok with him in the team. We got a 90th minute winner at Exeter, an easy Withdean win against today's poor opponents and Orient who barely had a shot (but did hit a post) and today he has played a poor side and made two errors, both of which resulted in the goals. I honestly can't understand why you'd think that the result today, and the results with Brezovan in the team have been the result of him improving us as a team. I think we're a team of individuals still, playing well individually and hoping for the best. If Glenn Murray scores 4 goals in a game, it would be very hard for ANY goalkeeper on the same team to not be part of the winning side. Even Smith would have been on the winning side today, I don't think it made a blind bit of difference who was in goal today, but the guy who was made mistakes and nearly cost us the game, only a mixture of Poyet's rant and Murray's brilliance saved the day.

You're welcome to your opinion, but we are radically opposing on this occaison.

 

[theonesmith]

I completely disagree with just about everything you've posted there. I don't think a hopeless goalkeeper conceeding 2 goals against any team capable of scoring against us means his presence has anything to do with why we've done ok with him in the team. We got a 90th minute winner at Exeter, an easy Withdean win against today's poor opponents and Orient who barely had a shot (but did hit a post) and today he has played a poor side and made two errors, both of which resulted in the goals. I honestly can't understand why you'd think that the result today, and the results with Brezovan in the team have been the result of him improving us as a team. I think we're a team of individuals still, playing well individually and hoping for the best. If Glenn Murray scores 4 goals in a game, it would be very hard for ANY goalkeeper on the same team to not be part of the winning side. Even Smith would have been on the winning side today, I don't think it made a blind bit of difference who was in goal today, but the guy who was made mistakes and nearly cost us the game, only a mixture of Poyet's rant and Murray's brilliance saved the day.

You're welcome to your opinion, but we are radically opposing on this occaison.

I think Acker is using statistics, not empirical findings from observing.

 

[Ninja Elephant]

I think Acker is using statistics, not empirical findings from observing.

Statistics based on 5 games are not as accurate as those based on 15. I'm talking about opinions based on years of seeing the player in question play, I think that's more relevant personally, if you don't agree than fair enough that's your opinion and you're welcome to it. I would rather see players for myself than judge from numbers on a page/screen though.

 

[Acker79]

I honestly can't understand why you'd think that the result today, and the results with Brezovan in the team have been the result of him improving us as a team.

Because his presence in the team gives us a higher win rate. Quite simple really.

If Glenn Murray scores 4 goals in a game, it would be very hard for ANY goalkeeper on the same team to not be part of the winning side. Even Smith would have been on the winning side today

Out of nine games, Smith has conceded 4 goals three times, and 5 goals (in just over half a game). I think you can't assume scoring four would make it likely we'd win with smith in goal.

 

[king Wombat]

But Poyet prefers him to Kuipers.

So either Poyet has completely lost the plot, or he feels that he has the qualities he prefers in a keeper and that Kuipers doesnt. Or is Kuipers still injured?? If so why is he on the bench?

I like kuipers but generally this season he hasn't been great - (southampton aside), and I absolutely find all this kuipers love in from his stalkers quite odd.. Hes a decent league 1 goalkeeper, (or division 3 as some of you like to point out.) But he sure as hell isn't going to be playing in the championship for us or any other team in the near future, so maybe just maybe it is time to look for a replacement.

Not saying that replacement is Brezovan btw, but its too early to come to a proper conclusion on him so far imo.

 

[Acker79]

I would rather see players for myself than judge from numbers on a page/screen though.

Unfortunately, the football league likes to use these numbers to judge teams, rather than watching individual players and judging performances.

 

[Ninja Elephant]

Unfortunately, the football league likes to use these numbers to judge teams, rather than watching individual players and judging performances.

Doesn't bother me in the slightest, they can do what they want and I'll stick to making up my own mind based on my own experiences.

King Wombat, I think the thing about Michel Kuipers is that he is, genuinely, taken for granted. When players like Brezovan and Smith take over from him, it illuminates the point in my opinion, because when Michel comes back into the side the defence tightens up and we improve. I've no doubts about that. I would agree, he's not been at his finest this season and if you were to trawl back through my posts you'd find I was in favour of giving Smith the chance to get into the side and see what he could do. But Michel's performance at Southampton is what he is capable of, and he performs at that level more often than he's given credit for. You rightly say he's a league 1 goalkeeper, I couldn't agree more. But that's fine, because we're a league 1 club.

 

[Carrot Cruncher]

I haven't seen it. Could you compare with the Henderson mistake against.. ah shit either Bournemouth or Cheltenham away, always get it mixed up..?

Having witnessed both incidents, I have to say Henderson had nothing on today's 'effort'.

Although at the time I was absolutely livid with Henderson, after calming down I can see what he was trying to do, he shouldn't have done it but mistakes like that do happen - if he hadn't slipped it wouldn't have been a problem.

If you are a professional keeper you don't drop a catch under NO pressure, sorry but you just don't. He should feel f***ing terrible because he cocked up what he is paid to do.

 

[king Wombat]

King Wombat, I think the thing about Michel Kuipers is that he is, genuinely, taken for granted. When players like Brezovan and Smith take over from him, it illuminates the point in my opinion, because when Michel comes back into the side the defence tightens up and we improve. I've no doubts about that. I would agree, he's not been at his finest this season and if you were to trawl back through my posts you'd find I was in favour of giving Smith the chance to get into the side and see what he could do. But Michel's performance at Southampton is what he is capable of, and he performs at that level more often than he's given credit for. You rightly say he's a league 1 goalkeeper, I couldn't agree more. But that's fine, because we're a league 1 club.

But the reason he's a league 1 keeper is that he isn't capable of playing like he did at southampton week in week out. That is the differnce between a league 1 or league 2 player and a championship/premiership player in that they can't reproduce that form every week.

Don't get me wrong, I like Kuipers but he is injury prone and also error prone. He also has a tendency to be dropped by managers at Brighton. There has got to be some very good reasons for that hasn' there?

As for this stuff about Brezovan being inconsistent at swindon - so what. I just saw Chris Iwelumo on MOTD play in the premiership.. Players have good seasons and bad seasons, they perform at some clubs and not others.

Look at the likes of Livermore, Navarro, Virgo and arguably Graeme Smith for proof of that - albeit the other side of the coin unfortunately..

 

[Skint Gull]

Having witnessed both incidents, I have to say Henderson had nothing on today's 'effort'.

Although at the time I was absolutely livid with Henderson, after calming down I can see what he was trying to do, he shouldn't have done it but mistakes like that do happen - if he hadn't slipped it wouldn't have been a problem.

If you are a professional keeper you don't drop a catch under NO pressure, sorry but you just don't. He should feel f***ing terrible because he cocked up what he is paid to do.

Saves me writing it!

That goal wasthe biggest cock up i've ever witnessed at a game of football, absolutely no pressure on the bloke what-so-ever! HOWLER

 

[shoreham moonraker]

just watched it on the football league show, wow there second goal brought back memories, he did that 4 or 5 times last season as well as letting a few through his legs.

 

[theonesmith]

just watched it on the football league show, wow there second goal brought back memories, he did that 4 or 5 times last season as well as letting a few through his legs.

Oi you stop stirring things up!

Seriously though, if he has consistently made a lot of these mistakes can you find any youtube links to footage of them?

 

[Uncle Buck]

Ninja did you actually go yesterday?

 

[The Wizard]

I told you so.

Good to see you taking pleasure in a goalkeeper, who is on the team you supposedly support, making a mistake, cock.

 

[Mr Burns]

Seeing yesterdays goal, I don't think he could really be blamed for the first one. It certainly didn't make me think "f***ing keeper", but the second one. I just can't explain that. A clanger of the highest order. All I can think off he was thinking about what he was going to do with the ball, because although all keeper make clangers, this was probably the worst I've seen as there was no danger at all.

The only other explainations, is a) he was worried about the Wycombe players following up clattering into him (in which case he isn't up to the job) or b) and what I think happened, if you watch closey, is those sneaky Wycombe players, heated the ball to boiling point before the free kick, because the way he lets the ball go suggests the ball was not at its correct temperate

Still fail to understand why we let SUllivan go last season.

NOt one off, but Russel Slades biggest cock up.

 

[Acker79]

Having seen that second goal on ssn I don't get the whole "absolutely no pressure" argument. When he dropped the ball at his own feet, it actually landed on the the attackers foot. If the attacker is so close to you that dropping the ball at your own feet actually sets him up, it's not exactly "no pressure".

Now, I'm not saying it wasn't a howler. It was. Undeniably. But let's not paint it as if there was no one around him. Someone was right on top of him, waiting for him to drop the ball.

 

[Mr Burns]

Having seen that second goal on ssn I don't get the whole "absolutely no pressure" argument. When he dropped the ball at his own feet, it actually landed on the the attackers foot. If the attacker is so close to you that dropping the ball at your own feet actually sets him up, it's not exactly "no pressure".

Now, I'm not saying it wasn't a howler. It was. Undeniably. But let's not paint it as if there was no one around him. Someone was right on top of him, waiting for him to drop the ball.

Whether he had presure or not, no professional goalkeeper should be dropping the ball like that. It's a clanger, and hopefully a lapse of concentration. Because if he did have one eye on the player, and made the error because of that, then as much as I hate to say it, he has to go. No keeper can be a bottle in any standard, let alone League One. But watching it again, I just think he was thinking what he was going to do with the ball before he caught it!