[Politics] Brexit

[pastafarian]

You don't say


If you disturbed a porn, puff and all night session nuts deep in Battlefield 1 with your boys for that, you shouldn't have bothered

Ummm …..yes I do say.
I was clearly referring to those that believe MFN clauses in existing EU trade deals prevent the other party offering better terms in any other trade deal than the terms with the EU.
This is a fundamental misunderstanding of what the clauses do.
The clauses do not prevent either party improving on existing deals.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Ummm …..yes I do say.
I was clearly referring to those that believe MFN clauses in existing EU trade deals prevent the other party offering better terms in any other trade deal than the terms with the EU.
This is a fundamental misunderstanding of what the clauses do.
The clauses do not prevent either party improving on existing deals.

Who would these 'people that believe' be, that you are referring to, as you hadn't quoted or named anyone, and the last post on this subject was mine that clearly stated

You can 'humbly state' whatever you like but repeating exactly the same as I stated above, we've committed to an agreement that is governed by regulatory alignment with the EU. If, as you are trying to claim, at some undefined point in the future, we negotiate anything significantly different the EU will get offered the same under the MFN rules in their trade agreement and we will have exactly the same as if we had stayed in the EU. So, once again, why is this brilliant news ?

and said nothing whatsoever about preventing Now obviously, you'd rather make statements about some hypothetical situation that may happen in some trade deal negotiation years down the line, in reply to 'those that believe' that you haven't quoted or named. But do you not think the situation right now is a higher priority ?

You know, the one were there is not a single Brexit supporter anywhere from the highest levels of Government down, who can suggest any sort of solution to these major issues which are as a direct result of trying to implement this 'Brexit Good Deal' you all voted for.

A Northern Ireland protocol which is unsustainable and we are having to break International law rather than implement the rest of what we agreed in the Deal.
A Fishing Industry that is on it's knees and won't survive the year in any significant form without changes to the Deal.
An enormous hit on any company that Exports that will not change unless there are changes to the Deal.
We keep pushing back Import controls because we don't have the infrastructure, systems or staff to implement them and to avoid the impact of Import controls on supply lines and supermarket shelves. But we will have to implement some sort of controls eventually unless we get changes to the Deal.
The Financial Services market is haemorrhaging into the EU, US and elsewhere. We either need to negotiate Equivalence with the EU or undertake massive de-regulation to compete with places like Singapore, because without changes, it will simply continue to pour out.

Of course, you could reply with a load of inconsequential whataboutery about some hypothetical situation years in the future, but I'm sure you would rather deal with real life situations that are actually happening and effecting the economy, industries, businesses and people right now

 

[Randy McNob]

Ummm …..yes I do say.
I was clearly referring to those that believe MFN clauses in existing EU trade deals prevent the other party offering better terms in any other trade deal than the terms with the EU.
This is a fundamental misunderstanding of what the clauses do.
The clauses do not prevent either party improving on existing deals.

I'd be interested to know which countries would give us a better deal, as a much smaller nation, for no obvious reason which could also harm the current arrangements they have with the EU? A much larger country which, now we are now a smaller independent nation, would therefore have a trade surplus they would then have more leverage in the negotiation and we would struggle to achieve anything like what we have now.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Ummm …..yes I do say.
I was clearly referring to those that believe MFN clauses in existing EU trade deals prevent the other party offering better terms in any other trade deal than the terms with the EU.
This is a fundamental misunderstanding of what the clauses do.
The clauses do not prevent either party improving on existing deals.

Indeed and as we know those MFN clauses only apply to some elements of the agreement there are exemptions. So to conclude, yes we can get a better deal, no, any better terms we negotiate wouldn't nessacerily be granted to the EU and (stating the bleeding obvious) we couldn't negotiate this deal if we were in the EU.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

I'd be interested to know which countries would give us a better deal, as a much smaller nation, for no obvious reason which could also harm the current arrangements they have with the EU? A much larger country which, now we are now a smaller independent nation, would therefore have a trade surplus they would then have more leverage in the negotiation and we would struggle to achieve anything like what we have now.

Canada

 

[WATFORD zero]

I'd be interested to know which countries would give us a better deal, as a much smaller nation, for no obvious reason which could also harm the current arrangements they have with the EU? A much larger country which, now we are now a smaller independent nation, would therefore have a trade surplus they would then have more leverage in the negotiation and we would struggle to achieve anything like what we have now.

Because we are really good at negotiating trade deals and very good at ignoring all logic when it comes to the economics or implementation of trade deals.

All you need is positive thinking.

That was how we got the brilliant 'Brexit Deal' with the EU which we've now discovered, a few weeks later, is impossible to implement. Overrule all logic with positive thinking, It's the way ahead

 

[Randy McNob]

Because we are really good at negotiating trade deals and very good at ignoring all logic when it comes to the economics or implementation of trade deals.

All you need is positive thinking.

That was how we got the brilliant 'Brexit Deal' with the EU which we've now discovered, a few weeks later, is impossible to implement. Overrule all logic with positive thinking, It's the way ahead

We laid down a good marker there, strung it out to the last few days, blinked first and caved in. They would have also noted we were more than happy to impose barriers to trade and economic hardship on ourselves to satisfy political ideology, they'll know that's their main aim

I'm sure this bodes well for all these future negotiations

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

We laid down a good marker there, strung it out to the last few days, blinked first and caved in. They would have also noted we were more than happy to impose barriers to trade and economic hardship on ourselves to satisfy political ideology, they'll know that's their main aim

I'm sure this bodes well for all these future negotiations

When are you guys going to wake up, smell the coffee and realise that the world needs us more than we need them.

 

[Randy McNob]

When are you guys going to wake up, smell the coffee and realise that the world needs us more than we need them.

careful with the slogans, don't want tread on the fairy bakers' toes

 

[Baker lite]

When are you guys going to wake up, smell the coffee and realise that the world needs us more than we need them.

Only our health service.


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[pastafarian]

Indeed and as we know those MFN clauses only apply to some elements of the agreement there are exemptions. So to conclude, yes we can get a better deal, no, any better terms we negotiate wouldn't nessacerily be granted to the EU and (stating the bleeding obvious) we couldn't negotiate this deal if we were in the EU.

Indeed, exemptions do apply, the clauses are targeted to specific chapters and sectors within a deal not the whole thing, you can touch whole areas of a chapter where clauses don’t exist and clauses can also simply instruct both parties to open dialogue on that sector or clauses may not even be in a trade deal. Quite possible to improve on a sector and a trade deal that doesn’t change that parties arrangement with a third party if there is no clause attached to its specifics.

Those that say MFN clauses in existing EU trade deals prevent the other party offering better terms in any other trade deal than the terms with the EU are misunderstanding what they do.

Who would come out with rubbish like this?

“I know that a significant number of the EU's existing trade deals have MFN clauses preventing the other party offering better terms in any other trade deals than the terms agreed with the EU.”

 

[vegster]

careful with the slogans, don't want tread on the fairy bakers' toes

We do need MORE Union flags though, everyone should have at least one behind them when they do a Zoom, plus a picture of HM The Queen if possible.

 

[daveinprague]

We do need MORE Union flags though, everyone should have at least one behind them when they do a Zoom, plus a picture of HM The Queen if possible.

Wonder where those flags are produced

 

[Baker lite]

Looks like Andrew has been on the pear drops again [emoji23][emoji23]
https://twitter.com/sirbasilbrush/status/1373616117550358530?s=21
These woopsys are supposed to be educated [emoji2359]


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[JC Footy Genius]

Indeed, exemptions do apply, the clauses are targeted to specific chapters and sectors within a deal not the whole thing, you can touch whole areas of a chapter where clauses don’t exist and clauses can also simply instruct both parties to open dialogue on that sector or clauses may not even be in a trade deal. Quite possible to improve on a sector and a trade deal that doesn’t change that parties arrangement with a third party if there is no clause attached to its specifics.

Those that say MFN clauses in existing EU trade deals prevent the other party offering better terms in any other trade deal than the terms with the EU are misunderstanding what they do.

Who would come out with rubbish like this?

“I know that a significant number of the EU's existing trade deals have MFN clauses preventing the other party offering better terms in any other trade deals than the terms agreed with the EU.”

It's the usual problem, people with very little understanding of these complex issues deluded enough to believe they are knowledgable after reading something in the Guardian or doing a couple of google searches.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

We do need MORE Union flags though, everyone should have at least one behind them when they do a Zoom, plus a picture of HM The Queen if possible.

If it's good enough for the EU ...



No snidey comments/hilarity about the flag from the BBC presenter in this instance obvs.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

If it's good enough for the EU ...



No snidey comments/hilarity about the flag from the BBC presenter in this instance obvs.

My word there are some sensitive souls about. For good or bad the EU has always been liberal with its flag-deployment, as have many member states. What's a little amusing about the British situation is not those neatly creased (and probably fake - I doubt they could ever flutter) flags themselves but the fact that there has clearly been an earnest little memo sent out by Central Office demanding that the things must be stuck up in the background, even when there's not enough room to properly stick them up anywhere, whenever a minister is filmed shooting the party line. It's all a bit contrived.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

My word there are some sensitive souls about. For good or bad the EU has always been liberal with its flag-deployment, as have many member states. What's a little amusing about the British situation is not those neatly creased (and probably fake - I doubt they could ever flutter) flags themselves but the fact that there has clearly been an earnest little memo sent out by Central Office demanding that the things must be stuck up in the background, even when there's not enough room to properly stick them up anywhere, whenever a minister is filmed shooting the party line. It's all a bit contrived.

Official speeches by heads of governments or places of power often have flags. It’s the flag in all the living rooms which make me laugh.
It made everyone else laugh too, including Robert Jenrik, but it seems some people have lost their British sense of humour, where we’ve had a time honoured way of being able to laugh at ourselves.

We are turning into the USA, and will be swearing allegiance to the ‘flag’ soon!

 

[daveinprague]

Brexiteers get offended about everything. Snowflakery at its finest.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

We do need MORE Union flags though, everyone should have at least one behind them when they do a Zoom, plus a picture of HM The Queen if possible.

Fixed for you , must admit there's been a increase of them being flown why not ?
Regards
DF