[Politics] Brexit

[vegster]

amazing how easily you can con people if you bring patriotism into it. Boris being a good example, mess up your hair and act like a bumblng Hugh Grant act on steroids, wave the Union Jack now and again for added effect. Back it up with enough media bias and your onto a winner, after all, no one ever asks why Rule Brittania at the proms was headline news while they are bombing the hell out of eachother in the west bank or a US election is going on. No, our civilisation is under threat and we must vote Tory to stop it, keep rolling off the cliches - woke, lefty, marxism. Of course theyŕe not brainwashed

I think we are now finally well and truly ****ed. Johnson has used brexit to get himself to position as PM by empty promises of a wonderful future for the UK which we can now see as absolutely a complete fantasy. His only escape from this reality is to put the EU in to a position where they can be blamed for the inevitable " No Deal " that is coming.

Thus he announces legislation he knows contradicts EU and probably WTO rules and laws knowing that the EU, an organisation based on rules and agreements, will have to challenge Johnson to withdraw the legislation or completely undermine the withdrawal talks and any hopes of an agreement.

Of course the usual brainwashed suspects will pick up on government statements mentioning " Parliament is sovereign as a matter of domestic law " and that their hero Johnson has stood up for the UK against the oppressive EU.....Of course they will overlook the fact that Parliament has ALWAYS been sovereign in domestic law, thats why we still drive on the left and drink pints of beer and opt out of any EU legislation we don't like. I wonder when those who have been duped realise ?

 

[birthofanorange]

I think we are now finally well and truly ****ed. Johnson has used brexit to get himself to position as PM by empty promises of a wonderful future for the UK which we can now see as absolutely a complete fantasy. His only escape from this reality is to put the EU in to a position where they can be blamed for the inevitable " No Deal " that is coming.

Thus he announces legislation he knows contradicts EU and probably WTO rules and laws knowing that the EU, an organisation based on rules and agreements, will have to challenge Johnson to withdraw the legislation or completely undermine the withdrawal talks and any hopes of an agreement.

Of course the usual brainwashed suspects will pick up on government statements mentioning " Parliament is sovereign as a matter of domestic law " and that their hero Johnson has stood up for the UK against the oppressive EU.....Of course they will overlook the fact that Parliament has ALWAYS been sovereign in domestic law, thats why we still drive on the left and drink pints of beer and opt out of any EU legislation we don't like. I wonder when those who have been duped realise ?

Spot on.
As for them realising? Even if they managed that, they'd not admit to it in any way at all - guaranteed.

 

[A1X]

I think we are now finally well and truly ****ed. Johnson has used brexit to get himself to position as PM by empty promises of a wonderful future for the UK which we can now see as absolutely a complete fantasy. His only escape from this reality is to put the EU in to a position where they can be blamed for the inevitable " No Deal " that is coming.

Thus he announces legislation he knows contradicts EU and probably WTO rules and laws knowing that the EU, an organisation based on rules and agreements, will have to challenge Johnson to withdraw the legislation or completely undermine the withdrawal talks and any hopes of an agreement.

Of course the usual brainwashed suspects will pick up on government statements mentioning " Parliament is sovereign as a matter of domestic law " and that their hero Johnson has stood up for the UK against the oppressive EU.....Of course they will overlook the fact that Parliament has ALWAYS been sovereign in domestic law, thats why we still drive on the left and drink pints of beer and opt out of any EU legislation we don't like. I wonder when those who have been duped realise ?

As I said yesterday, this is why No Deal now has to happen. The Brexiters have to sit and watch their own project fail entirely on it's own terms. There's no blaming "Remainers" or anything anymore, this is the logic conclusion of what they wanted to happen. Every lie they swallowed, every mistruth they doubled down on and parroted have led to next year. Let them see it play out, let them watch it burn. And maybe, maybe some might still be sensible enough to realise that actually they ballsed up.

It's just a shame innocent people will die as a result. But hey, I'm sure the grieving families can make do with a glib one-liner from Das Reich as comfort.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

As I said yesterday, this is why No Deal now has to happen. The Brexiters have to sit and watch their own project fail entirely on it's own terms. There's no blaming "Remainers" or anything anymore, this is the logic conclusion of what they wanted to happen. Every lie they swallowed, every mistruth they doubled down on and parroted have led to next year. Let them see it play out, let them watch it burn. And maybe, maybe some might still be sensible enough to realise that actually they ballsed up.

It's just a shame innocent people will die as a result. But hey, I'm sure the grieving families can make do with a glib one-liner from Das Reich as comfort.

It would be absolutely hilarious if not for the reasons in the last line

 

[Hampster Gull]

This is going well then.

The Brexiteers finest in charge and they seem to be ****ing just about everything up, not just Brexit ,which many knew they would but even the basics around managing the country.

Shameful that they mislead the nationalists in the way they did.

 

[vegster]

As I said yesterday, this is why No Deal now has to happen. The Brexiters have to sit and watch their own project fail entirely on it's own terms. There's no blaming "Remainers" or anything anymore, this is the logic conclusion of what they wanted to happen. Every lie they swallowed, every mistruth they doubled down on and parroted have led to next year. Let them see it play out, let them watch it burn. And maybe, maybe some might still be sensible enough to realise that actually they ballsed up.

It's just a shame innocent people will die as a result. But hey, I'm sure the grieving families can make do with a glib one-liner from Das Reich as comfort.

We are all going to be grieving one way or another when January hits home, my only crumb of comfort is that I have had Hitler's sunbeam on " ignore " for a couple of years now.

 

[vegster]

Interesting opinion piece from The Irish Times.....



Everybody knows Boris Johnson can lie for England. To his supporters, it was one of his best assets. They believed he could bamboozle the European Union into giving him the only Brexit deal that is really acceptable – one that gives Britain all the advantages of being in the EU without any of the botheration of being a member. The problem is that congenital mendacity isn’t just for foreigners. If you lie for England, you will also lie to England.

This week, these two streams of fabrication finally became one. In openly admitting that it signed the withdrawal agreement with the EU in bad faith, Johnson’s Vote Leave government also implicitly confessed that it lied wholesale to the electorate in December’s general election. The cross-contamination of domestic politics by the deceit that is Brexit’s DNA is now complete.


On Tuesday, the Northern Ireland secretary Brandon Lewis brazenly informed the House of Commons that a bill to amend the Irish protocol of the withdrawal agreement with the EU would “break international law”, albeit in “limited and specific ways”. The qualification is nonsense. If one side can unilaterally change any bits of a treaty, nothing in it is binding. But in any case, Lewis’s declaration was part of a much wider contention: that the British never quite understood what they were signing.

That same day, Johnson’s court gazette, The Daily Telegraph, led with the headline “Brexit deal never made sense, PM to tell EU”. The story quoted “a senior government source” as claiming that some of its consequences “were not foreseen” at the time and that the treaty would have to be “rewritten to protect the union”.

In itself, this claim is fraudulent. The idea that Johnson has suddenly realised that the protocol effectively keeps Northern Ireland within the ambit of the EU’s customs union and single market, and thus has negative implications for the union, is risible. This was precisely what Johnson’s close allies in the Democratic Unionist party were screaming about when he made the agreement in October 2019. It was the reason why Johnson himself had sworn blind to the DUP that he would never agree to such a thing. If Johnson didn’t see that a radically different Brexit for one part of the UK would destabilise the union, he is an idiot. But in this case, he can be exonerated on that charge – he knew damn well and did it anyway.

He did it for the same reason he and his Vote Leave crew do everything else: because it suits their immediate interests. Theresa May’s Northern Ireland backstop was threatening to bring the whole Brexit project crashing down. The Irish taoiseach, Leo Varadkar, offered Johnson a way out – the so-called “border in the Irish Sea”. Johnson, the supreme opportunist, grabbed it, screwed the DUP, declared victory and the rest is history.

But this is where the real fakery starts. It is clear that Johnson and his most important confreres, Dominic Cummings and Michael Gove, never really saw this as anything other than a clever dodge, a tactical retreat. On his blog in March 2019, when May was in power, Cummings addressed “dear Vote Leave activists”: “don’t worry about the so-called ‘permanent’ commitments this historically abysmal Cabinet are trying to make on our behalf. They are not ‘permanent’ and a serious government — one not cowed by officials and their bullshit ‘legal advice’ with which they have herded ministers like sheep — will dispense with these commitments.”

In May, Steve Baker, former chair of the European Research Group, wrote in The Critic that Cummings “said we should vote for the original withdrawal agreement without reading it, on the basis Michael Gove articulated: we could change it later”. This had indeed been Gove’s line since December 2017: “If the British people dislike the agreement that we have negotiated with the EU, the agreement will allow a future government to diverge.”

This idea that Britain could sign the withdrawal agreement with its fingers crossed behind its back and then just ignore it later on is, in a way, perfectly consistent with the larger mentality of Brexit. At the heart of its theology is the fantasy that there is such a thing as absolute national sovereignty, a complete unilateral freedom of action that had been taken away by EU membership. Once Britain is “unchained” from the EU, Britain can do whatever it damn well pleases. The withdrawal treaty is not a set of permanent obligations, merely a route towards the obligation-free future that starts on 1 January 2021.

The Brexiters don’t much mind that this trick requires Britain to expose itself openly as a rogue state that treats international agreements as disposable handkerchiefs. In their solipsism, they presumably haven’t bothered to look up, for example, the membership of the House ways and means committee that would control any trade deal Britain might make with the US. (To save them the bother, it’s chaired by Richard Neal, and includes his fellow Irish-American Democrats Brendan Boyle and Brian Higgins, all highly engaged with Northern Ireland.)

The catch is that all of this doesn’t stop at smart-arse duplicity towards other countries. It involves the flagrant deception of English voters. More perhaps than any modern election, Johnson’s campaign in December was reduced to a single issue and three words: Get Brexit Done. This was to be achieved by electing a parliament that was absolutely committed to passing the “oven-ready” and “excellent” withdrawal agreement.

There was always one level of spuriousness in this – the withdrawal agreement was not the end of anything. But it is now clear that there was a much deeper and even more cynical level of fakery. It was not just that Brexit would not be “done” when the withdrawal agreement was duly passed, it was that Cummings and Johnson intended all along to undo it. What was presented to voters as a point of no return was, to them, a temporary arrangement that they would unpick later. “Oven-ready” had a secret addendum, “but we’ll go back and edit the cookbook to change the ingredients”.

Brexit is a promise that was made to be broken because the best of all worlds the voters were offered in 2016 was always a mirage. But that breach has grown and widened over time. It is now an open chasm in British democracy.

 

[birthofanorange]

Interesting opinion piece from The Irish Times.....



Everybody knows Boris Johnson can lie for England. To his supporters, it was one of his best assets. They believed he could bamboozle the European Union into giving him the only Brexit deal that is really acceptable – one that gives Britain all the advantages of being in the EU without any of the botheration of being a member. The problem is that congenital mendacity isn’t just for foreigners. If you lie for England, you will also lie to England.

This week, these two streams of fabrication finally became one. In openly admitting that it signed the withdrawal agreement with the EU in bad faith, Johnson’s Vote Leave government also implicitly confessed that it lied wholesale to the electorate in December’s general election. The cross-contamination of domestic politics by the deceit that is Brexit’s DNA is now complete.


On Tuesday, the Northern Ireland secretary Brandon Lewis brazenly informed the House of Commons that a bill to amend the Irish protocol of the withdrawal agreement with the EU would “break international law”, albeit in “limited and specific ways”. The qualification is nonsense. If one side can unilaterally change any bits of a treaty, nothing in it is binding. But in any case, Lewis’s declaration was part of a much wider contention: that the British never quite understood what they were signing.

That same day, Johnson’s court gazette, The Daily Telegraph, led with the headline “Brexit deal never made sense, PM to tell EU”. The story quoted “a senior government source” as claiming that some of its consequences “were not foreseen” at the time and that the treaty would have to be “rewritten to protect the union”.

In itself, this claim is fraudulent. The idea that Johnson has suddenly realised that the protocol effectively keeps Northern Ireland within the ambit of the EU’s customs union and single market, and thus has negative implications for the union, is risible. This was precisely what Johnson’s close allies in the Democratic Unionist party were screaming about when he made the agreement in October 2019. It was the reason why Johnson himself had sworn blind to the DUP that he would never agree to such a thing. If Johnson didn’t see that a radically different Brexit for one part of the UK would destabilise the union, he is an idiot. But in this case, he can be exonerated on that charge – he knew damn well and did it anyway.

He did it for the same reason he and his Vote Leave crew do everything else: because it suits their immediate interests. Theresa May’s Northern Ireland backstop was threatening to bring the whole Brexit project crashing down. The Irish taoiseach, Leo Varadkar, offered Johnson a way out – the so-called “border in the Irish Sea”. Johnson, the supreme opportunist, grabbed it, screwed the DUP, declared victory and the rest is history.

But this is where the real fakery starts. It is clear that Johnson and his most important confreres, Dominic Cummings and Michael Gove, never really saw this as anything other than a clever dodge, a tactical retreat. On his blog in March 2019, when May was in power, Cummings addressed “dear Vote Leave activists”: “don’t worry about the so-called ‘permanent’ commitments this historically abysmal Cabinet are trying to make on our behalf. They are not ‘permanent’ and a serious government — one not cowed by officials and their bullshit ‘legal advice’ with which they have herded ministers like sheep — will dispense with these commitments.”

In May, Steve Baker, former chair of the European Research Group, wrote in The Critic that Cummings “said we should vote for the original withdrawal agreement without reading it, on the basis Michael Gove articulated: we could change it later”. This had indeed been Gove’s line since December 2017: “If the British people dislike the agreement that we have negotiated with the EU, the agreement will allow a future government to diverge.”

This idea that Britain could sign the withdrawal agreement with its fingers crossed behind its back and then just ignore it later on is, in a way, perfectly consistent with the larger mentality of Brexit. At the heart of its theology is the fantasy that there is such a thing as absolute national sovereignty, a complete unilateral freedom of action that had been taken away by EU membership. Once Britain is “unchained” from the EU, Britain can do whatever it damn well pleases. The withdrawal treaty is not a set of permanent obligations, merely a route towards the obligation-free future that starts on 1 January 2021.

The Brexiters don’t much mind that this trick requires Britain to expose itself openly as a rogue state that treats international agreements as disposable handkerchiefs. In their solipsism, they presumably haven’t bothered to look up, for example, the membership of the House ways and means committee that would control any trade deal Britain might make with the US. (To save them the bother, it’s chaired by Richard Neal, and includes his fellow Irish-American Democrats Brendan Boyle and Brian Higgins, all highly engaged with Northern Ireland.)

The catch is that all of this doesn’t stop at smart-arse duplicity towards other countries. It involves the flagrant deception of English voters. More perhaps than any modern election, Johnson’s campaign in December was reduced to a single issue and three words: Get Brexit Done. This was to be achieved by electing a parliament that was absolutely committed to passing the “oven-ready” and “excellent” withdrawal agreement.

There was always one level of spuriousness in this – the withdrawal agreement was not the end of anything. But it is now clear that there was a much deeper and even more cynical level of fakery. It was not just that Brexit would not be “done” when the withdrawal agreement was duly passed, it was that Cummings and Johnson intended all along to undo it. What was presented to voters as a point of no return was, to them, a temporary arrangement that they would unpick later. “Oven-ready” had a secret addendum, “but we’ll go back and edit the cookbook to change the ingredients”.

Brexit is a promise that was made to be broken because the best of all worlds the voters were offered in 2016 was always a mirage. But that breach has grown and widened over time. It is now an open chasm in British democracy.

I would say, 'read it and weep' to those who fell for it all, but they won't bother reading it, because I actually don't think they care one jot. Pretty sad state of affairs, all in all, for all of us.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Dry your eyes chaps , taking back control not long now
Regards
DF

 

[Pretty Plnk Fairy]

Interesting opinion piece from The Irish Times.....



Everybody knows Boris Johnson can lie for England. To his supporters, it was one of his best assets. They believed he could bamboozle the European Union into giving him the only Brexit deal that is really acceptable – one that gives Britain all the advantages of being in the EU without any of the botheration of being a member. The problem is that congenital mendacity isn’t just for foreigners. If you lie for England, you will also lie to England.

This week, these two streams of fabrication finally became one. In openly admitting that it signed the withdrawal agreement with the EU in bad faith, Johnson’s Vote Leave government also implicitly confessed that it lied wholesale to the electorate in December’s general election. The cross-contamination of domestic politics by the deceit that is Brexit’s DNA is now complete.


On Tuesday, the Northern Ireland secretary Brandon Lewis brazenly informed the House of Commons that a bill to amend the Irish protocol of the withdrawal agreement with the EU would “break international law”, albeit in “limited and specific ways”. The qualification is nonsense. If one side can unilaterally change any bits of a treaty, nothing in it is binding. But in any case, Lewis’s declaration was part of a much wider contention: that the British never quite understood what they were signing.

That same day, Johnson’s court gazette, The Daily Telegraph, led with the headline “Brexit deal never made sense, PM to tell EU”. The story quoted “a senior government source” as claiming that some of its consequences “were not foreseen” at the time and that the treaty would have to be “rewritten to protect the union”.

In itself, this claim is fraudulent. The idea that Johnson has suddenly realised that the protocol effectively keeps Northern Ireland within the ambit of the EU’s customs union and single market, and thus has negative implications for the union, is risible. This was precisely what Johnson’s close allies in the Democratic Unionist party were screaming about when he made the agreement in October 2019. It was the reason why Johnson himself had sworn blind to the DUP that he would never agree to such a thing. If Johnson didn’t see that a radically different Brexit for one part of the UK would destabilise the union, he is an idiot. But in this case, he can be exonerated on that charge – he knew damn well and did it anyway.

He did it for the same reason he and his Vote Leave crew do everything else: because it suits their immediate interests. Theresa May’s Northern Ireland backstop was threatening to bring the whole Brexit project crashing down. The Irish taoiseach, Leo Varadkar, offered Johnson a way out – the so-called “border in the Irish Sea”. Johnson, the supreme opportunist, grabbed it, screwed the DUP, declared victory and the rest is history.

But this is where the real fakery starts. It is clear that Johnson and his most important confreres, Dominic Cummings and Michael Gove, never really saw this as anything other than a clever dodge, a tactical retreat. On his blog in March 2019, when May was in power, Cummings addressed “dear Vote Leave activists”: “don’t worry about the so-called ‘permanent’ commitments this historically abysmal Cabinet are trying to make on our behalf. They are not ‘permanent’ and a serious government — one not cowed by officials and their bullshit ‘legal advice’ with which they have herded ministers like sheep — will dispense with these commitments.”

In May, Steve Baker, former chair of the European Research Group, wrote in The Critic that Cummings “said we should vote for the original withdrawal agreement without reading it, on the basis Michael Gove articulated: we could change it later”. This had indeed been Gove’s line since December 2017: “If the British people dislike the agreement that we have negotiated with the EU, the agreement will allow a future government to diverge.”

This idea that Britain could sign the withdrawal agreement with its fingers crossed behind its back and then just ignore it later on is, in a way, perfectly consistent with the larger mentality of Brexit. At the heart of its theology is the fantasy that there is such a thing as absolute national sovereignty, a complete unilateral freedom of action that had been taken away by EU membership. Once Britain is “unchained” from the EU, Britain can do whatever it damn well pleases. The withdrawal treaty is not a set of permanent obligations, merely a route towards the obligation-free future that starts on 1 January 2021.

The Brexiters don’t much mind that this trick requires Britain to expose itself openly as a rogue state that treats international agreements as disposable handkerchiefs. In their solipsism, they presumably haven’t bothered to look up, for example, the membership of the House ways and means committee that would control any trade deal Britain might make with the US. (To save them the bother, it’s chaired by Richard Neal, and includes his fellow Irish-American Democrats Brendan Boyle and Brian Higgins, all highly engaged with Northern Ireland.)

The catch is that all of this doesn’t stop at smart-arse duplicity towards other countries. It involves the flagrant deception of English voters. More perhaps than any modern election, Johnson’s campaign in December was reduced to a single issue and three words: Get Brexit Done. This was to be achieved by electing a parliament that was absolutely committed to passing the “oven-ready” and “excellent” withdrawal agreement.

There was always one level of spuriousness in this – the withdrawal agreement was not the end of anything. But it is now clear that there was a much deeper and even more cynical level of fakery. It was not just that Brexit would not be “done” when the withdrawal agreement was duly passed, it was that Cummings and Johnson intended all along to undo it. What was presented to voters as a point of no return was, to them, a temporary arrangement that they would unpick later. “Oven-ready” had a secret addendum, “but we’ll go back and edit the cookbook to change the ingredients”.

Brexit is a promise that was made to be broken because the best of all worlds the voters were offered in 2016 was always a mirage. But that breach has grown and widened over time. It is now an open chasm in British democracy.

Yawn we invented the hovercraft and marmite so up yours DELORS and now we are getting are fish back and theyl be proud to be british fish as i read it on facebook

Regards

DF

 

[birthofanorange]

Dry your eyes chaps , taking back control not long now
Regards
DF

Keep saying it like you believe it - fewer and fewer do, you silly little racist.

 

[vegster]

Keep saying it like you believe it - fewer and fewer do, you silly little racist.

Whack him on " Ignore " , people can change and realise they have made some bad choices, Das Reich is one that you have to give up on. He can't help himself/herself, "It" has to take a contradictory position on principle. Don't engage, thats the only fuel it gets.

 

[pb21]

Interesting opinion piece from The Irish Times.....

... At the heart of its theology is the fantasy that there is such a thing as absolute national sovereignty, a complete unilateral freedom of action that had been taken away by EU membership. Once Britain is “unchained” from the EU, Britain can do whatever it damn well pleases.

Pretty much sums up one wing of the Brexit vote IMO (and the main one that led to the vote in the first place).

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Keep saying it like you believe it - fewer and fewer do, you silly little racist.

Deal with it , just like you did when we left the EU
, it's been emotional
Regards
DG

 

[WATFORD zero]

Some next level stupid rattling around in your noggin there

Um, we had the oven ready deal, its been and gone. It was the Withdrawal Agreement.
Bloody delicious it was.

Here is a pre-election video where Boris explains the metaphor of getting a working majority at the upcoming election and finally getting his “oven ready deal” (The withdrawal Agreement) passed and through parliament.



There is even some text to go with video for the hard of learning like you explaining how it’s relevant to the upcoming election as Boris makes a final bid to the electorate before voting. How on earth a handful of you cannot understand that the oven ready deal was the Withdrawal Agreement is beyond comprehension.

Now where have I seen that video before…….oh yeah, you actually managed to post it yourself today……..and still didn’t understand.

Even in your strange little porn and puff world, where things Johnson says have entirely different meanings to the words he uses, you can't have escaped the fact that that by your own definition he's just vomited it back up all over you

 

[Randy McNob]

Deal with it , just like you did when we left the EU
, it's been emotional
Regards
DG

any tips on dealing with it?

Should we stockpile food, medicines or try and emigrate?

 

[CHAPPERS]

[tweet]1304166560572026880[/tweet]

 

[Is it PotG?]

Delighted with our new trade deal with Japan.

 

[Randy McNob]

Good that we have a trade deal with Japan albeit same as the one we had with EU

 

[nicko31]

Just arrived back in chaos isle after a few weeks in sunnier southern European climes

Well well a trade deal with Japan, apparently its worth £15BN over an indeterminate period and adds up to 0.07% of GDP, still don't knock this. This a lot more than UK fish is worth

So I assume with a more nimble trade policy its better than the one Japan struck with the EU?

Is there anything new we will be able sell tariff free after Jan 2021?