[Politics] Brexit

[Mo Gosfield]

You could have Farage and Galloway standing in the forthcoming elections!!!

 

[Mo Gosfield]

yes that's right , the decision was to leave the EU which the establishment and the liberal elite are TRYING TO STOP
regards
DR

.....and lots of others who now regard themselves as ' European ' and not ' British ' For me, a worrying trend. Why can you not still be British in identity, whilst enjoying the benefits of full integration with our European partners and neighbours? I don't hear too many Germans saying that they are ' European ' before saying that they are German. Yes, they acknowledge they are European but first and foremost, they are German. They are proud of their country, heritage and tradition.
Some people who are only to quick to cast aside national identity when it suits them are only too quick to rally round again when the national football team suddenly start progressing in the World Cup Finals.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

.....and lots of others who now regard themselves as ' European ' and not ' British ' For me, a worrying trend. .

lots of others my arse.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

You may be right, Brexit may be undeliverable. And for that, although May has done her best with a poisoned chalice, I will forever blame the previous generations of politicians for allowing our country to become so intractably enmeshed in the EU in the first place.

We have not been intractably enmeshed in the EU since 2009, when the British-authored article 50 came into force. As a sovereign nation we could and can walk away. The problem has arisen because a group of politicians and others persuaded about half the British people that we could indeed walk away, munching our cake whilst magically keeping it.

This was untrue of course and all the national entanglements, humiliations and divisions that have arisen since derive from that simple fact.

 

[ManOfSussex]

.....and lots of others who now regard themselves as ' European ' and not ' British ' For me, a worrying trend. Why can you not still be British in identity, whilst enjoying the benefits of full integration with our European partners and neighbours? I don't hear too many Germans saying that they are ' European ' before saying that they are German. Yes, they acknowledge they are European but first and foremost, they are German. They are proud of their country, heritage and tradition.
Some people who are only to quick to cast aside national identity when it suits them are only too quick to rally round again when the national football team suddenly start progressing in the World Cup Finals.

I don't know lots of others who now regard themselves as 'European' and not 'British'.

In regards to the national football team suddenly starting to progress in the world cup and being only too quick to rally round, that's because those 'some people', like myself, are only ever 90 minutes/1st day of The Lord's Test against Australia/80 minutes English, the rest of the time we consider ourselves British.

 

[studio150]

.....and lots of others who now regard themselves as ' European ' and not ' British '

Probably far more people consider themselves, English, Welsh or Scottish before British and certainly well before European

 

[Weststander]

I don't know lots of others who now regard themselves as 'European' and not 'British'.

In regards to the national football team suddenly starting to progress in the world cup and being only too quick to rally round, that's because those 'some people', like myself, are only ever 90 minutes/1st day of The Lord's Test against Australia/80 minutes English, the rest of the time we consider ourselves British.

I’ve always (well, when I’ve rarely thought about it) considered myself both British and English. Probably only patriotically English during a international football or rugby union match. I’d always considered the likes of Aneurin Bevan, Lloyd George, Mary Peters, George Best, Sean Connery, Ally McCoist, Gordon Brown, GB Olympic teams, etc, etc, .... as simply fellow Brits and countrymen.

The growing schism is a very recent thing, initially a result of the divisiveness of the likes of the SNP, it’s their raison d'etre. ‘Big brother’ next door, England, was for a while a rudderless nation without a clear identity, something Paxman identified in his 1998 text. St George’s Day barely noticed, unlike the other three.

The English are now far less embarrassed in being proud of our/their Englishness.

Unfortunately, right wing extremism, thuggery, racism, xenophobia has rode on the back of that. Just look at the amount of racism and Islamophobia from certain football fans in the last 7 days alone.

 

[GrizzlingGammon]

Care to tell us your other identities?

Thank you for confirming he did not set a woman on fire. Your fake news is a credit to Putin, Farage, and Boris.
I have no other identities.

 

[Blue3]

lots of others my arse.

I see myself as European first English second British Third

 

[sully]

I presume that we’re fully committed to the European elections, as this part of the agreement isn’t being reported.

 

[albion68]

We have not been intractably enmeshed in the EU since 2009, when the British-authored article 50 came into force. As a sovereign nation we could and can walk away. The problem has arisen because a group of politicians and others persuaded about half the British people that we could indeed walk away, munching our cake whilst magically keeping it.

This was untrue of course and all the national entanglements, humiliations and divisions that have arisen since derive from that simple fact.

I voted leave on the pretext that we would be an independent country not linked to the EU ,but we would have to do trade deals still of course .I blame the EU partly for present mess as they were to skilled negotiators and TM was out witted and made mistakes from what i read about the process .The problem now is we are getting more movement to the far right ,and we already have far left with labour .

 

[WATFORD zero]

Oh yes it is. We'll see.

I've just had a quick scan of the thread to see if anyone has put forward a new solution that hadn't been outlined before, as I know that the very idea that 'leave voters' would have to answer a binary question in order to decide which leave they want seems to render certain people completely speechless and unable to make a binary choice. (And if you can't see the irony in that ).

But unfortunately, unless I've missed it no-one has, so I'm afraid it's back to the same old binary one.

As you obviously think and want Brexit to happen, which did you want, the Customs Union one or the Hard Border one ?.

 

[Triggaaar]

I see myself as European first English second British Third

That is pretty unusual.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

We have not been intractably enmeshed in the EU since 2009, when the British-authored article 50 came into force. As a sovereign nation we could and can walk away. The problem has arisen because a group of politicians and others persuaded about half the British people that we could indeed walk away, munching our cake whilst magically keeping it.

This was untrue of course and all the national entanglements, humiliations and divisions that have arisen since derive from that simple fact.

I humbly disagree. One the one hand you state that we are not intractably enmeshed, but if a process is so hard to administer, for whatever reason be it political, physical or whatever, then there are three possibilities, one the process is flawed, two the state from which the process needs to arise from is impractical, or three those carrying out the process are incompetent. Well the process is arguably okay, the second again provides argument between the irresistible forces of leave and remain and three needs no qualification.

I honestly do not believe there is a simple 'right' path from the current mess we have got ourselves into.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

In what way is that 'undemocratic'?

We elect the people who make the decisions. They make a decision. That surely is the point of democracy.

That is easy to answer. And I know Brexit is a very complex beast, but simply put, the politicians you refer to ask the people a binary question, the people answer and then those politicians ignore it because it was not the answer they were looking for.

This is undemocratic and the whole saga underlines why Referenda are dangerous and problematic unless one can be certain that the 'right' result will occur. Or at least, a result that leaves no room for doubt.

 

[RustyKent]

That is easy to answer. And I know Brexit is a very complex beast, but simply put, the politicians you refer to ask the people a binary question, the people answer and then those politicians ignore it because it was not the answer they were looking for.

This is undemocratic and the whole saga underlines why Referenda are dangerous and problematic unless one can be certain that the 'right' result will occur. Or at least, a result that leaves no room for doubt.

We should not have been asked in the first place. Abdication of responsibility in my eyes.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

That is easy to answer. And I know Brexit is a very complex beast, but simply put, the politicians you refer to ask the people a binary question, the people answer and then those politicians ignore it because it was not the answer they were looking for.

This is undemocratic and the whole saga underlines why Referenda are dangerous and problematic unless one can be certain that the 'right' result will occur. Or at least, a result that leaves no room for doubt.

The politicians are not ignoring it, but trying to find a way to make it work, because they know a lot more than the common Joe or Janet in the street about trade deals, and international treaties.
The amount of disinformation and downright lies like it will be the easiest deal in the world made it almost impossible to implement.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

The politicians are not ignoring it, but trying to find a way to make it work, because they know a lot more than the common Joe or Janet in the street about trade deals, and international treaties.
The amount of disinformation and downright lies like it will be the easiest deal in the world made it almost impossible to implement.

Okay, ignoring was the incorrect word. Some of them are trying to make it work. Some (many) are trying their very best to justify to themselves and the electorate, why they are not ignoring the result but trying to overturn it.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

We should not have been asked in the first place. Abdication of responsibility in my eyes.

Having the benefit of hindsight is sometimes painful. I would agree with your assessment.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Okay, ignoring was the incorrect word. Some of them are trying to make it work. Some (many) are trying their very best to justify to themselves and the electorate, why they are not ignoring the result but trying to overturn it.

Yes, because they realised that people were voting against austerity and Tory policies rather than the EU. People have changed their minds especially where the car plants are closing.