[Politics] Brexit

[Two Professors]

Strong and Stable Stammer

 

[Two Professors]

Is that like the sort of task force that liberated the Falklands?

Ooooh,that's a bit naughty,but in the '80's you know very well NATO's remit was the 'North Atlantic',not the South.The French,Germans etc backed the Argentinians with weapons,ammunition and equipment.The USA provided us with Humint,Keyhole satellite intel,and logistics support,so the good guys won.Wonder if the French and Germans ever got paid?

 

[daveinprague]

Ooooh,that's a bit naughty,but in the '80's you know very well NATO's remit was the 'North Atlantic',not the South.The French,Germans etc backed the Argentinians with weapons,ammunition and equipment.The USA provided us with Humint,Keyhole satellite intel,and logistics support,so the good guys won.Wonder if the French and Germans ever got paid?

So, only of any purpose as a member of NATO, and backup for the Americans in their wars.

 

[Two Professors]

So, only of any purpose as a member of NATO, and backup for the Americans in their wars.

In purely military terms,I would imagine so.We don't start wars,just try to help the good guys win.In terms of other deployments,they will make a marvellous base for disaster relief,with their helicopter staging and fresh water/power supply capabilities.

 

[CheeseRolls]

We did, but this time he's running with a plan that we all know he doesn't support. He's let Starmer get away with his own views and cast away his own anti-EU beliefs. This will cost Labour in the long run.

It is true to say that Labour are slightly schizo on Brexit, but I think they have come to the right conclusion for their party right now. Corbyn and McDonell do not want a 51 state Brexit, or indeed anything that results in a deregulated labour market protected from immigration. This position allows them to oppose the Tory Brexit and come back with a Socialist version, further down the track, which is essentially a regulated labour market protected from immigration. The parliamentary party is happy to be able to unite behind a transition phase with no defined end date, because well guess what this is remain by another name and they can build a cross party consensus for remain/Brexit lite.

For what it's worth the socialist Brexit is equally as disastrous as the hard Brexit for this country and I don't believe either can deliver anywhere near enough popular support to make it happen.

At some point the Brexiteers need to stop point scoring and we won, so it is happening and start focusing on the people charged with delivering this great vision. From where I am sitting Davis and BJ are both afraid of a days work, Fox and Gove have identical records for conniving in the margins just long enough to piss off enough people and then get sacked. If Brexit doesn't happen it won't be down to the establishment, the elite, Blairite's or trendy lefties, it will be down to a bunch of no marks who bit off more than they could chew.

 

[Jim D]

Ooooh,that's a bit naughty,but in the '80's you know very well NATO's remit was the 'North Atlantic',not the South.The French,Germans etc backed the Argentinians with weapons,ammunition and equipment.The USA provided us with Humint,Keyhole satellite intel,and logistics support,so the good guys won.Wonder if the French and Germans ever got paid?

The US also provided lots of sidewinders, although that could be covered by logistics. If our navy were scared of exocets the argie airforce was scared of them.

 

[Baldseagull]

Ooooh,that's a bit naughty,but in the '80's you know very well NATO's remit was the 'North Atlantic',not the South.The French,Germans etc backed the Argentinians with weapons,ammunition and equipment.The USA provided us with Humint,Keyhole satellite intel,and logistics support,so the good guys won.Wonder if the French and Germans ever got paid?

It is not true that France and Germany backed the Argentinians with weapons,ammunition and equipment. Both countries placed arms embargoes on Argentina, France also allowed the British Task Force use of French miliatary ports in Africa to fuel etc on the way there.
There was a team of French Technical advisors that were already there, and it transpires that this group aided Argentina by fixing a fault with 3 exocet launchers, this was not sanctioned by the French Government. France did not fulfil orders of exocet missiles to countries it suspected would then supply Argentina. Argentina cancelled orders of Ships placed with Germany, due to the embargo Germany had placed on them. Neither France nor Germany were fully behind the UK, but they did not assist Argentina, except for the technical team that was already there, and that defied the Presidential order, during the conflict.

 

[Two Professors]

The US also provided lots of sidewinders, although that could be covered by logistics. If our navy were scared of exocets the argie airforce was scared of them.

Ssssssssshhhhhhhhhhusssssssh.

 

[Two Professors]

It is not true that France and Germany backed the Argentinians with weapons,ammunition and equipment. Both countries placed arms embargoes on Argentina, France also allowed the British Task Force use of French miliatary ports in Africa to fuel etc on the way there.
There was a team of French Technical advisors that were already there, and it transpires that this group aided Argentina by fixing a fault with 3 exocet launchers, this was not sanctioned by the French Government. France did not fulfil orders of exocet missiles to countries it suspected would then supply Argentina. Argentina cancelled orders of Ships placed with Germany, due to the embargo Germany had placed on them. Neither France nor Germany were fully behind the UK, but they did not assist Argentina, except for the technical team that was already there, and that defied the Presidential order, during the conflict.

You believe what you want to.

 

[ManOfSussex]

Starmer hasn't changed his mind, he never had any intention of supporting the leavers. Everything he has said or written supports that. Strangely enough though, Labour's clarification of their position now makes it more likely that May could resign around the time of the Tory conference. This would allow a new leader to perhaps call an election in 2018/19 and fight Corbyn's complete lack of leadership.

Labour's stance on this has certainly made May's position more awkward at the very least. In terms on an election, until The Tories actually have something positive to offer, have worked out who and what Jeremy Corbyn is and whether he's just this years Alex Salmond or is in fact the next Sir Clement Attlee and messiah all rolled into one, albeit a CND member version of, they wont risk taking him on. The Tories really do need to come up with something better than - ha, ha, ha Diane Abbott/urrrgh Jeremy Corbyn is a terrorist/nurrrgh John McDonnell is a Commie though. 30% of Sun readers voted Labour 2 months back - the smears don't work.

Very interesting as to who takes the gig from May though. Not much of a choice either - The Honourable Member for the 18th Century in Jacob Rees-Mogg, David 'Probably' Davis, Dr Liam Fox GP, or Hastings most notorious dog lover Amber Rudd and her 346 majority that she 'aint she going to improve next time. Very interesting indeed.

 

[daveinprague]

You believe what you want to.

No, im sure everybody will go with your fantasy. Why believe documented facts.

 

[Two Professors]

No, im sure everybody will go with your fantasy. Why believe documented facts.

Oh,and what is that fantasy?Give us the benefit of these documents you tell us about.

 

[ManOfSussex]

So last night we had The HMS Cornwall incident, last weekend The Boer War and British Colonialism in India, now it's The Falklands War on The NSC Brexit thread and who did what to help whom.

Could I put in a request that next on The Brexit thread we have Italia '90, Acid House and Rave music and all 3 defeated mainstream football hooliganism and global Communism and it's relation to Brexit? Thanks.

 

[ManOfSussex]

More like 1-0 down to Tristan da Cuhna,not their finest hour.Felt sorry for the kids.They had probably been sent out with blank ammunition,so there was no chance of upsetting somebody.Wouldn't have happened in Nelson's day.

Whilst you're here, I do seem to recall reading at the time that you chaps in the Army ripped it royally out of your Royal Naval counterparts on military forums regarding HMS Cornwall and all that? It had cannons that could have blown up half of Tehran but we just surrendered? The ipod lad cried I read when they took it off him. I never served obviously, but I never cried when I got put in Eastbourne DGH for 2 nights having had my head kicked in during my youth outside Odyssey Nightclub on Eastbourne pier years back for example. I'm sure Nelson didn't either when the French blew off his arm.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

You believe what you want to.

I have a close family interest in this and would like to know what you believe. You imply that the French were supporting the Argentinian military campaign but we always understood the background was as Baldseagull described. What other facts have you?

 

[ManOfSussex]

I have a close family interest in this and would like to know what you believe. You imply that the French were supporting the Argentinian military campaign but we always understood the background was as Baldseagull described. What other facts have you?

Without wanting to get involved too much, I'd always thought Thatcher just hand-bagged Mitterrand, as any good grocers daughter from Lincolnshire would do, and The French crumbled and just gave us the technical specifications?

 

[Two Professors]

So last night we had The HMS Cornwall incident, last weekend The Boer War and British Colonialism in India, now it's The Falklands War on The NSC Brexit thread and who did what to help whom.

Could I put in a request that next on The Brexit thread we have Italia '90, Acid House and Rave music and all 3 defeated mainstream football hooliganism and global Communism and it's relation to Brexit? Thanks.

Yeah,I will go with that.Brexit is a bit boring,with Barmier doing his best impersonation of de Gaulle.NON,till you give us ze billions.
Do you want to lead off on Italia 90,or shall we wait till the bully boys have had their say?

 

[Two Professors]

Whilst you're here, I do seem to recall reading at the time that you chaps in the Army ripped it royally out of your Royal Naval counterparts on military forums regarding HMS Cornwall and all that? It had cannons that could have blown up half of Tehran but we just surrendered? The ipod lad cried I read when they took it off him. I never served obviously, but I never cried when I got put in Eastbourne DGH for 2 nights having had my head kicked in during my youth outside Odyssey Nightclub on Eastbourne pier years back for example. I'm sure Nelson didn't either when the French blew off his arm.

I believe there was a small amount of good-natured banter on the sites I frequent,but Forces and ex-Forces sites tend to be much better moderated,so nothing excessive.

 

[ManOfSussex]

Yeah,I will go with that.Brexit is a bit boring,with Barmier doing his best impersonation of de Gaulle.NON,till you give us ze billions.
Do you want to lead off on Italia 90,or shall we wait till the bully boys have had their say?

Italia '90 - If Roberto Baggio hadn't have scored 'that' goal against Czechoslovakia, would the Eurozone project have actually happened? If Yugoslavia had won Italia '90, as they should have done, would the breakup and civil war have actually happened, or just been delayed? Who's fault was it - Serbian Nationalism, Moscow, Brussels, Washington, Clinton or Maradona?

 

[Two Professors]

I have a close family interest in this and would like to know what you believe. You imply that the French were supporting the Argentinian military campaign but we always understood the background was as Baldseagull described. What other facts have you?

I won't bother replying to you,as you will just call me a liar again,and I don't know about your mental state this evening.