[Politics] Brexit

[heathgate]

Yes you can. You do the decent and honourable thing and lay down a very clear marker to the EU by stating all EU citizens can stay. There are many strategies in negotiation and this particular approach seems the most decent and most appropriate one for this situation.

Fluff and nonsense..... it's business, pure and simple...... and in fact, demanding this early guarantee is simply mischief making of the highest order, attempting to muddy the waters in a futile attempt by Remainers to disrupt or delay.

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[Herr Tubthumper]

but, why would the British government, be disappointed by the Lords, and seek to overturn a guarantee of EU citizens rights in the UK, following Brexit. This has nothing to do with the EU. It is about the British governments intent, post Brexit.

I think we should ignore [MENTION=32776]heathgate[/MENTION]. I think he's drunk, or schizophrenic.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Fluff and nonsense..... it's business, pure and simple.

What a **** you are.

 

[heathgate]

The William Joyce of NSC?

I couldn't have put it better myself...

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[Herr Tubthumper]

I couldn't have put it better myself...

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Given your incoherent gibberish I agree.... you couldn't.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Blaming others, in this case nations over which you have no control, IS a very British thing to do. Stop pointing the finger and take control of the UK.....after all this is what was promised.

Very poor HT 3/10. Amusing that two people living in mainland Europe condemn our government for trying to secure a reciprocal deal for expats living in the EU though.

 

[studio150]

However, we both know that nationally, this is what a lot of brexiters wanted. East Europeans attacked, one even killed. Mass reports of people being told to get out of the country along with, youre leaving the country. Come on. Lets get a bit real.

You are absolutely correct, there were many reports of people told to leave now.

It is interesting that many EU citizens that have been legally in the UK for years are still uncertain as to whether they will be permitted to remain given that nothing official has been agreed. To overcome this, or to be at the head of the queue many EU citizens are looking towards UK citizenship, but are struggling with the 85 page application form, that requires a considerable amount of evidence to confirm that they have been living here for at least 5 years, such as pay slips over this period, letters from employers, and details of everytime that they left the UK for holidays or work, which with no visa stamps on passports may be difficult.

Then when they have completed the form (if they don't give up) they have to surrender their passport while the form is being processed which takes months.

Hopefully this issue can be resolved quickly in the Article 50 process and confirmed and in place well ahead of the 2 year period

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Very poor HT 3/10. Amusing that two people living in mainland Europe condemn our government for trying to secure a reciprocal deal for expats living in the EU though.

Speaking on my behalf now? I don't want people and families to be held to ransom on my behalf. And I've not met a single expat who does. If there is a huge ground swell of expats who do then fine...I've not seen or heard of this though.

 

[studio150]

I think it has been mentioned many times that whilst wages have been driven down, no way were those that are already here would have to leave.

I am happy we are exiting the EU, i do not speculate or have a view on something that has not happened.

Consistent as ever

 

[daveinprague]

Very poor HT 3/10. Amusing that two people living in mainland Europe condemn our government for trying to secure a reciprocal deal for expats living in the EU though.

I have not condemned. Im fairly sure that HT didnt either. A rather dramatic and theatrical interpretation from you.
What I asked is, why would the British government be disappointed about an amendment that would guarantee the rights of EU citizens living in the UK.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

I have not condemned. Im fairly sure that HT didnt either. A rather dramatic and theatrical interpretation from you.
What I asked is, why would the British government be disappointed about an amendment that would guarantee the rights of EU citizens living in the UK.

Possibly because the amendment drags out the triggering article 50 process longer than necessary and attaches a precondition which could weaken our negotiating position?

 

[heathgate]

Speaking on my behalf now? I don't want people and families to be held to ransom on my behalf. And I've not met a single expat who does. If there is a huge ground swell of expats who do then fine...I've not seen or heard of this though.

Again... you seem a tad isolated from real world activities,... there has been article after article highlighting the demands from ex pat campaign groups in Spain, France and Portugal... to name just 3.... all seeking assurances from EU re their status post Brexit..... just have a browse... you do know how to use a search engine?

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[heathgate]

You are absolutely correct, there were many reports of people told to leave now.

It is interesting that many EU citizens that have been legally in the UK for years are still uncertain as to whether they will be permitted to remain given that nothing official has been agreed. To overcome this, or to be at the head of the queue many EU citizens are looking towards UK citizenship, but are struggling with the 85 page application form, that requires a considerable amount of evidence to confirm that they have been living here for at least 5 years, such as pay slips over this period, letters from employers, and details of everytime that they left the UK for holidays or work, which with no visa stamps on passports may be difficult.

Then when they have completed the form (if they don't give up) they have to surrender their passport while the form is being processed which takes months.

Hopefully this issue can be resolved quickly in the Article 50 process and confirmed and in place well ahead of the 2 year period

As 'simple' as the process for applying for German or French citizenship....both highlighted in documentary articles recently.... reference UK ex pats rushing to get guarantee of their status post Brexit... assurances that the EU are not giving them.

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[daveinprague]

Possibly because the amendment drags out the triggering article 50 process longer than necessary and attaches a precondition which could weaken our negotiating position?

Yeah, British politics can be complicated. Its a shame people cannot deal with it.
Why would a guarantee on EU citizens residing in the UK, drag out any process? I think I could write that amendment in less than two minutes.

Not entirely sure that showing EU citizens in the UK being assured their rights in the UK post Brexit would not be beneficial in any negotiations tbh

 

[heathgate]

Possibly because the amendment drags out the triggering article 50 process longer than necessary and attaches a precondition which could weaken our negotiating position?

It's a simple answer that DIP and HT seem incapable of understanding.... but I guess if you live your life with Ode to Joy on repeat play, your preconceptions will never allow you to form a balanced view.

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[daveinprague]

It's a simple answer that DIP and HT seem incapable of understanding.... but I guess if you live your life with Ode to Joy on repeat play, your preconceptions will never allow you to form a balanced view.

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I see you have run out of argument. Fair enough.

 

[heathgate]

I see you have run out of argument. Fair enough.

Why.. you haven't asked me a question..... I refer you to my recent posts.... we don't want to get dizzy on that roundabout of repeating the same point for each separate poster submitting the same question or comment as the previous poster... do we?

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[The Merry Prankster]

It's a simple answer that DIP and HT seem incapable of understanding.... but I guess if you live your life with Ode to Joy on repeat play, your preconceptions will never allow you to form a balanced view.

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I've read your inarticulate nonsense all morning and not risen to the bait BUT it is perfectly possible to do the decent thing unilaterally. I would have thought that leavers would be unsurprised by the appalling behaviour of Junker and the EU and be keen to demonstrate British values of decency and humanity.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Yeah, British politics can be complicated. Its a shame you cannot deal with it.
Why would a guarantee on EU citizens residing in the UK, drag out any process? I think I could write that amendment in less than two minutes.

Not entirely sure that showing EU citizens in the UK being assured their rights in the UK post Brexit would not be beneficial in any negotiations tbh

To avoid confusion I am not the UK government. Hope this helps.

Putting down amendments and the inevitable ping-pong between the Commons and the Lords inevitably drags out the process.

That's nice to know but the UK government has a duty to protect UK citizens. Taking for granted a reciprocal agreement would be forthcoming without any strings attached is a bit risky.

 

[heathgate]

Given your incoherent gibberish I agree.... you couldn't.

What... simply because my comments are at odds with yours?....

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