[Politics] Brexit

[GT49er]

Two posts from remainers setting out very eloquently the reasons why 17 million of us voted to leave.

Seems Black and White in your own words, but I suspect that like many leavers on here you don't wish to acknowledge what you have actually written.

Fine by me. I obviously need to learn leave speak given that it bears no similarity to English.

Leave speak? No, it was English, actually - and very good English at that. Would you prefer it in Esperanto? I mean, that's proper European, isn't it...........

 

[Baldseagull]

No I don't, and I never said that either. Of course the Tories aren't going to go gung-ho for workers' rights. Unfortunately we have to stick with them for the moment, as they're the only party that (hopefully) won't try to weasel their way round to overturning the referendum. Once we're finally out of the EU, though, we can kick them out.

OK, so would you agree that no improvement in workers rights is likely to come about due to leaving the EU, and that in fact the reverse is more likely? And also that the EU provides minimum standards of employee rights, which we are free to exceed at any time whilst we are still members?

 

[pastafarian]

OK, so would you agree that no improvement in workers rights is likely to come about due to leaving the EU, and that in fact the reverse is more likely? And also that the EU provides minimum standards of employee rights, which we are free to exceed at any time whilst we are still members?

when we leave The EU how many workers rights and which ones are they that have you identified exactly that over the coming years and decades future Labour/Tory/Lib/Coalition governments will be looking to reverse?

would hate to think you have no idea and are just making it up

 

[JC Footy Genius]

And your leave vote helps this how?

It should send a clear message that the populations of member nations aren't particularly happy with the performance or direction of the EU. (If only)

Making a success of Brexit, or at the very least showing leaving doesn't equal economic armageddon, may encourage other electorates to break free of the 'only way is the EU way' mindset.

Also not being part of an organisation that imposes austerity on member states, increasing misery/suffering for the most vulnerable, mass youth unemployment etc is a plus in my book.

In addition, from 2020 we should be free of funding obligations re Turkey.

 

[deletebeepbeepbeep]

The Tories lost four council seats to the Lib Dems last night.

 

[Soulman]

It should send a clear message that the populations of member nations aren't particularly happy with the performance or direction of the EU. (If only)

Making a success of Brexit, or at the very least showing leaving doesn't equal economic armageddon, may encourage other electorates to break free of the 'only way is the EU way' mindset.

Also not being part of an organisation that imposes austerity on member states, increasing misery/suffering for the most vulnerable, mass youth unemployment etc is a plus in my book.

In addition, from 2020 we should be free of funding obligations re Turkey.

Even the leftie pro EU Geldof is having a pop.
"One of the highest-profile pro-EU campaigners during the Brexit referendum, he said Brussels needs a radical overhaul quickly.

“Europe needs reform – it is sclerotic,” he told Trinity College Dublin’s Law Society.

“The whole system is constipated. It needs a laxative to clear it out"
He also predicted a European war within two generations as the West lurches towards nationalism and populism.

Sir Bob said that half the EU is desperately unhappy: “It doesn't function. It is ignoring the wishes of European citizens. "

 

[portslade seagull]

The EU just reminds me of FIFA under Blatter. Corrupted

 

[glasfryn]

she should have taken dave(yes that dave) and she might have had someone to talk to
she should maybe have packed her bags and come home
ignorant lot I think they forget had it not been for us British (UK sneer,sneer) saving their sorry backsides not once but twice they would not even have been there...............................that also goes for that lot at FIFA

 

[Lincoln Imp]

Even the leftie pro EU Geldof is having a pop.
"One of the highest-profile pro-EU campaigners during the Brexit referendum, he said Brussels needs a radical overhaul quickly.

“Europe needs reform – it is sclerotic,” he told Trinity College Dublin’s Law Society.

“The whole system is constipated. It needs a laxative to clear it out"
He also predicted a European war within two generations as the West lurches towards nationalism and populism.

Sir Bob said that half the EU is desperately unhappy: “It doesn't function. It is ignoring the wishes of European citizens. "

So just to be clear, Geldof is saying that if the lurch towards nationalism and populism as seen so clearly in the UK continues then there will be a European war within two generations? He may be right or he may be wrong but what surprises me is that is that you seem to agree with him enough to quote him.

(Cue standard response from elsewhere that Junker and his team is currently creating at least two dozen third reichs as most of Europe is forced into following Britain's lead and everything is Johnny Foreigner's fault, including the rise of racial tension in Barnsley.)

Incidentally. Small query. You seem to imply that being a remainer is a 'leftie'-pursuit. Other leavers say that remainers are tory-boys. I'm not sure it is possible to have two stereotypes.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

she should have taken dave(yes that dave) and she might have had someone to talk to
she should maybe have packed her bags and come home
ignorant lot I think they forget had it not been for us British (UK sneer,sneer) saving their sorry backsides not once but twice they would not even have been there...............................that also goes for that lot at FIFA

Good post. Clarifies one of the driving emotions behind the Leave majority on June 23.

 

[Soulman]

So just to be clear, Geldof is saying that if the lurch towards nationalism and populism as seen so clearly in the UK continues then there will be a European war within two generations? He may be right or he may be wrong but what surprises me is that is that you seem to agree with him enough to quote him.

(Cue standard response from elsewhere that Junker and his team is currently creating at least two dozen third reichs as most of Europe is forced into following Britain's lead and everything is Johnny Foreigner's fault, including the rise of racial tension in Barnsley.)

Incidentally. Small query. You seem to imply that being a remainer is a 'leftie'-pursuit. Other leavers say that remainers are tory-boys. I'm not sure it is possible to have two stereotypes.

So are you asking me or telling me. Geldof was very pro EU, very outspoken in favour, my point was he does not seem as keen now. I think his view on a lot of EU members not being happy is spot on. Nationalism may come about, not a bad thing in my opinion.

 

[Yoda]

I see that one company has filed for Administration yesterday, citing the sharp fall of the pound due to Brexit as the cause.

A possible RIP for:

 

[Baldseagull]

when we leave The EU how many workers rights and which ones are they that have you identified exactly that over the coming years and decades future Labour/Tory/Lib/Coalition governments will be looking to reverse?

would hate to think you have no idea and are just making it up

I would guess it would be the conditions of the working time directive that are most likely to be eroded, easy to do if you sell it as repealing a bit of EU legislation, which is of course what the people wanted.
The main aspects are:
A limit to weekly working hours, which must not exceed 48 hours on average, including any overtime
A minimum daily rest period of 11 consecutive hours in every 24
A rest break during working hours if the worker is on duty for longer than 6 hours
A minimum weekly rest period of 24 uninterrupted hours for each 7-day period, in addition to the 11 hours' daily rest
Paid annual leave of at least 4 weeks per year
Extra protection for night work, e.g.
average working hours must not exceed 8 hours per 24-hour period,
night workers must not perform heavy or dangerous work for longer than 8 hours in any 24-hour period,
night workers have the right to free health assessments and, under certain circumstances, to transfer to day work.


The Tory Government tried to block this directive and got an exemption from the 48 hour max working week, if employees sign their agreement to exempt themselves. The Government even went to court over this, against legal advice, to try and avoid it.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

So are you asking me or telling me. Geldof was very pro EU, very outspoken in favour, my point was he does not seem as keen now. I think his view on a lot of EU members not being happy is spot on. Nationalism may come about, not a bad thing in my opinion.

It must be understood that just because someone is strongly in favour of our membership of the EU it doesn't mean that they think the EU is perfect. I've spent much of my life being proud of my country but it doesn't mean I've always thought the UK is perfect. Have you? (As a side issue I think that the fact that the EU is in a state of flux presented the UK with a huge window of opportunity to become a far more influential force for good in the world. It's frustrating to me that we decided to blow it.)

You mention nationalism. Like most supporters of a traditionally lower league football club I have a strong sense of place. I am very pleased that Brighton is my home town and a great emotional attachment (even now!) to the county where my family has lived for a millennium. Your view that the rise of nationalism is a good thing is one view. I have to say I disagree with it, as I expect would most of those people who had to deal with its consequences in the past.

 

[Baldseagull]

It should send a clear message that the populations of member nations aren't particularly happy with the performance or direction of the EU. (If only)

Making a success of Brexit, or at the very least showing leaving doesn't equal economic armageddon, may encourage other electorates to break free of the 'only way is the EU way' mindset.

Also not being part of an organisation that imposes austerity on member states, increasing misery/suffering for the most vulnerable, mass youth unemployment etc is a plus in my book.

In addition, from 2020 we should be free of funding obligations re Turkey.

I will give you the first point, I hope it too gives some in the EU pause for thought.

Your second point is why the EU will be reluctant to do a favourable deal, or at least not do one quickly.
Your third point is to me a reason to stay in, and campaign for change.
Your fourth point is a grey area for me, I am not against funding other nations, in support of work they may be doing that benefits us, but I am wary of the current regime in Turkey.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

it must be understood that just because someone is strongly in favour of our membership of the eu it doesn't mean that they think the eu is perfect. I've spent much of my life being proud of my country but it doesn't mean i've always thought the uk is perfect. Have you? (as a side issue i think that the fact that the eu is in a state of flux presented the uk with a huge window of opportunity to become a far more influential force for good in the world. It's frustrating to me that we decided to blow it.)

you mention nationalism. Like most supporters of a traditionally lower league football club i have a strong sense of place. I am very pleased that brighton is my home town and a great emotional attachment (even now!) to the county where my family has lived for a millennium. Your view that the rise of nationalism is a good thing is one view. I have to say i disagree with it, as i expect would most of those people who had to deal with its consequences in the past.

time to move forward
regards
DR

 

[Baldseagull]

time to move forward
regards
DR

Goosestepping?

 

[glasfryn]

Good post. Clarifies one of the driving emotions behind the Leave majority on June 23.

precisely and the quicker the better

 

[JC Footy Genius]

I will give you the first point, I hope it too gives some in the EU pause for thought.

Your second point is why the EU will be reluctant to do a favourable deal, or at least not do one quickly.
Your third point is to me a reason to stay in, and campaign for change.
Your fourth point is a grey area for me, I am not against funding other nations, in support of work they may be doing that benefits us, but I am wary of the current regime in Turkey.

So do I. Unlikely though considering their track record of continually ignoring or dismissing the warning signs.

Front National increasing support, Geert Wilders increasing support, close call in the Austrian presidential election, AfD, 5 Star Movement, Greece, Italy, Eurozone economic uncertainty etc etc. How bad does it have to get.

Yes some EU zealots are talking tough but I note the Heads of Government are making more conciliatory noises. I am still convinced economic concerns will override the politics.

Gave up hoping for significant change a long time ago. The Cameron pre-referendum 'negotiations' being the final nail in the coffin.

The EU was either throwing Billions of Euro's at Turkey because they genuinely expected they would join at some point or hoped to encourage them to embrace western values also buy influence. As you point out the current regime is heading in the opposite direction in all these areas.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

precisely and the quicker the better

It's good we agree that one of the driving emotions behind the Leave vote was the view, as you put it, that these Euro types are ignoramuses who have forgotten that without us Brits saving their sorry backsides twice they would not even have been there.

On such emotions are the future of England being decided.