[Politics] Brexit

[happypig]

Shame it was from Wales,otherwise that might have been true.

Was it Wales ? I honestly thought it was Yorkshire as they'd just shown a statue of Dickie Bird.

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

Scotland want to break the union and take us back 400 years no matter what- us little Englanders merely want to leave the EU

Actually, Scotland voted against independence very recently. We have forced their hand. Us. Not them. England and Wales and N.Ireland. I say good on them.

 

[ManOfSussex]

Well when Article50 is invoked it will take at least 2yrs, hope that helps

I know article 50 has to be invoked. When will article 50 be invoked, if it ever is to be though?

 

[warmleyseagull]

When will article 50 be invoked, if it ever is to be? This year? Next year after the German & French elections? After the 2020 general election here? Nobody from leave has an answer to it.

That's my point too and been trashed as a bad loser on another thread. It is partly that but also a criticism of Leave that they actually had no road map for what to do post victory.

 

[Seagull58]

Don't Switzerland and Norway have very high levels of immigration (higher than the UK?) which seems to be the main reason why many people here voted to leave in the first place? So yes you can negotiate back your ability to trade freely in Europe but at the cost of having to allow free movement of people as well. I can't see the EU giving us (at a cost of many billions per year) the trade benefit & ability of UK people to travel freely round Europe without also having to allow free movement of people into the UK from the EU?

No they don't. See the numbers in the previous posts. Their annual net immigration numbers are between 15% and 25% of the recent UK figures.

 

[mona]

Many bad decisions have been made democratically, the margin is so narrow on this as well that it does not seem right to forge ahead with such massive change.

And of course the 1932 German elections saw the Nazi party democratically voted into power. That turned out well

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

Well when Article50 is invoked it will take at least 2yrs, hope that helps

It can take a maximum of 2 years. Otherwise trade rules from the WTO etc start applying.

Basically, the divorce is 2 years. Every agreement, for trade or otherwise with other nations, after that, as well as the rewriting of our legal system is likely to take between 20-40 years, if not more.

And more than anything, that's a resource issue.

 

[Igzilla]

I have seen so much abuse and insults from the democratic minority over the past 24 hours or so on social media. Very similar to the Labour defeat of 2015. Incredible really, and very much toys out of prams. These leftys will never understand the winners at the polls.

Leave won because lots of Labour supporters voted out, so I suspect a lot of the toys are being thrown by Tory lovers.

http://news.sky.com/story/1716177/labour-out-votes-heap-pressure-on-corbyn

 

[BigGully]

Yes.

But be clear. The question on the ballot was simply remain or leave the EU.

There is nothing there about free movement or immigration.


Everything beyond the act of leaving is detail, and a negotiating point.

The point is that we have no obligation whatsoever to negotiate on anything, of course we will now talk, meet, 'negotiate' on the things that will be identified as priority issue for us, but we no longer have an obligation to implement anything that Brussels might want us to.

Negotiations are driven by the dynamism of strength, I am struggling to see many weaknesses in our starting position, our economy, our security and us as an important market for them, after we exit we absolutely do not need to continue with free movement of people from within the EU, it is imperative that immigration decreases, Brexit won on this premise.

 

[fosters headband]

Did I say that everyone in the older generation voted leave? The majority of over 65s voted leave and the majority of 18-40s voted to remain. That is a fact.

Can you you show me where these facts you are stating have been published please.

 

[neilbard]

Its a secret ballot so how does anybody know ?

They don't its secret

 

[Finchley Seagull]

No, that's nothing like what a troll is. A troll posts stuff they don't believe just to cause arguments etc.

I'm sat at home with the footy on, and I have time to go into detail about my views on here. I don't have time to stand outside of school for half an hour arguing with someone I like in front of a load of other people that will know me and my family and wonder why the hell I'm arguing politics at school.

All of us have friends with different political views to our own, it's not worth falling out over. I don't have to worry about that on here, this is just a forum (no offence NSC)

Maybe a troll wasn't the right word but it is one of the worse things about the Internet that people can say what they want on the Internet but won't stand up for them in real life. There's been a lot of EU talk on here over the last few months, which I've avoided until today, but I think you are definitely one of the ones I've seen shouting loudest. I would say if you have such strong opinions, you should stand by them in person but everyone is different. I've not expressed any opinion on here that I haven't said to friends and family.

 

[lawros left foot]

Good one.

"Dear remain voter

I'm sorry you did not get your own way in the EU referendum, don't blame the people who voted to leave!

Blame the 28% of eligible voters who did not bother to turn up

Blame the 232 people who left their ballot paper blank

Blame the 9,084 people who crossed both boxes in protest

Blame the 836 people who added their names to the ballot paper

Blame the 15,207 who voided their vote for other reasons

Leave voters are not selfish, racist, xenophobic, bigoted or stupid.

They voted for our children & grandchildren, they voted for our democracy, they voted for our sovereignty, they voted for our fishermen, they voted for our farmers, they voted for our steel industry, they voted for our NHS, they voted for our schools, they voted for our laws, they voted for our borders, they voted for our economy, they voted for our rights, they voted for our freedom of speech & they voted for a Greater Britain.

They didn't vote for YOU!

Not all Leavers are non-racist, several I have discussed the Referendum with over the last four months have told me, their only reason for voting leave, is to kick out various groups of people, be it East Europeans, Muslims,and bizarrely Pakistani paedophiles.
Strangely, one of the most racist people i know,voted Remain, funny old world,eh

 

[GoldWithFalmer]

Actually, Scotland voted against independence very recently. We have forced their hand. Us. Not them. England and Wales and N.Ireland. I say good on them.

Yes marginally and pre EU referendum however having banish more or less all English parties from the map the overall trend is headed that way.....

 

[ManOfSussex]

That's my point too and been trashed as a bad loser on another thread. It is partly that but also a criticism of Leave that they actually had no road map for what to do post victory.

They have no idea or answer as to what happens next.

 

[bluenitsuj]

To all the remainers you lost accept it move on

I do not think I have ever seen such bad losers in my life. It's embarrassing. Even more of a joke is the petition, laughable.

 

[Stato]

I love the petition they've started to give themselves hope they'll get another chance - (which would destroy democracy if it did)

Although I don't think that there should be a second referendum unless it is shown that a good number who voted leave desire it, it is a silly to say that it happening would 'destroy democracy'. People are petitioning for debate in parliament. Both petitions and debate are valid routes for protest. Democracy is not defined solely by single aspects like elections or referendums, it has to enshrine everyone's right to have their own opinion and argue it whenever they see fit.

This is the second referendum we have had on EU membership. We had a second one partly because some of those who lost in the seventies (by a much larger majority than Thursday's) refused to accept defeat on the issue for four decades. It was an important democratic right for them to be allowed to do this and they eventually convinced a majority to join them. Losing a vote does not force anyone to change their opinion, or to give up the struggle to try to convince others to agree with them. Refusing anyone this right would be a step towards replacing democracy with ochlocracy, the tyranny of the majority.

 

[Finchley Seagull]

Can you you show me where these facts you are stating have been published please.

Page one of this thread is where the poll is included. You can argue with the word fact if you want but it fits all ideas of different generations that are commonly held.

 

[El Presidente]

As a leave voter as far as I am concerned unless we activate article 50 we are still in the EU... I would like a clean break and feel it's best for all if we do.

I'm a remain voter but I agree with you wholeheartedly.

The votes have been cast, the decision has been made.

So it's time to move on, although there does seem to be a vacuum in terms of decision making and control at the top of the leave organisation.

 

[theboybilly]

And of course the 1932 German elections saw the Nazi party democratically voted into power. That turned out well

If you think the Nazis were democratically elected you are very much mistaken