[Politics] Brexit

[Seagull58]

Don't Switzerland and Norway have very high levels of immigration (higher than the UK?) which seems to be the main reason why many people here voted to leave in the first place? So yes you can negotiate back your ability to trade freely in Europe but at the cost of having to allow free movement of people as well. I can't see the EU giving us (at a cost of many billions per year) the trade benefit & ability of UK people to travel freely round Europe without also having to allow free movement of people into the UK from the EU?

Net immigration to Norway in recent years has been around 40,000 per annum. The immigrant population, including those born in Norway to immigrant parents, is 16% of the total population.

 

[Finchley Seagull]

This is the problem with the remain twits. Unfaltering belief they know best & everyone (even a majority) else is wrong.

I love the petition they've started to give themselves hope they'll get another chance - (which would destroy democracy if it did)

Lots of them will be starting therapy on Monday as they can't work out what's going on.

Makes me crack up (with laughter)

Farage was already lining up his excuses when he thought he'd lost when interviewed on Thursday evening complaining about the extra people who were allowed to vote. Even Douglas Carswell, UKIP's one MP, said his comments were ludicrous. Given these comments from Farage, are you seriously telling me if remain had won that it would have been the end. Or would they have given it a day and then started pushing for another referendum. So, on that basis, why shouldn't remain ask for another referendum?

I am also glad that you've potentially damaged the future of this country and find it funny. I imagine my generation and future generations won't be laughing so much.

 

[ManOfSussex]

And how quickly is our whole legal system going to be rewritten?

And when are we getting rid of all the foreigners so us good ol' English people can start working and not claiming benefits again?

When are we actually leaving The EU? Nobody from leave seems to have a clue on that one either.

 

[portslade seagull]

To all the remainers you lost accept it move on

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

I voted leave but immigration was never a factor in my decision making process, I happen to think neither staying or leaving will have much impact either way on immigration, but apparently like the other 17.4 million leave voters I'm still a bigoted racist. I spent last week in Germany on holiday, the hotel was staffed entirely by Romanians, made a cracking drinking friend with a second generation Turkish german, had a whale of a time in a polish owned restaurant and another owned by a smashing gay Italian guy, remarkably we all managed not to insult or kill each other! My leave vote was anti EU not anti Europe something many remainers have a hard time understanding it seems.

This is a very fair point to make. And as a remainer, I've met many leavers who have argued the same. Unfortunately, most of their arguments have eventually, when dissected, boiled down to reasons relating to immigration and racial conflicts, because most people who claim to have voted to leave because they're anti-EU are actually ignorant about the EU.

However, there are undoubtedly anti-EU reasons out there, which, had they been the focus of the leave campaign and been discussed with any integrity and truth, that I could have understood people getting on board with. In the balance of things, I'd have probably still voted remain, but I totally get that there are logical political, economic and social discussions regarding the EU that could've been used by the leavers, as none of us are pretending the EU, like our own system, is perfect.

So I say this in a very genuine way (partly because I've been subjected to so much ignorance and racial hatred from leavers during this referendum and I need to try and understand where at least some leavers are coming from), but can you please explain what your anti-EU reasons for voting leave were?

 

[Two Professors]

The Times interviewed four people in Margate two weeks ago. All wanted to leave. Their reasons were:

1. "I went to Calais the other day. There were 50 fishing boats in the harbour. Margate has got one." (This suggests that the number of fishing boats in your harbour has nothing to do with the EU.)

2. "There are too many muslims in England."

3. (Didn't say anything. Just started singing Land of Hope & Glory).

4. "I don't like Cameron. He's a politician. I want Boris. He's an entertainer-politician."

A High Street shopkeeper in Sussex was telling customers earlier this week that he was voting out because when his dad was in hospital there were too many blacks in the waiting rooms.

I wonder what reasons they gave in Lincolnshire,quite a big Brexit majority there!

 

[warmleyseagull]

There is no question whatsoever that a compromise will be brokered. It is in the interests of not only the UK and Europe, but for the world's economy and stability. Makes sense from every perspective.

Think I might save this one for future reference. Hope you are right but not hopeful that will materialise. There is an inbuilt impasse between UK's need for access to Common Market and the EU's consequent requirement for free movement. I just dont see how that will be overcome.

 

[Triggaaar]

It's funny how you can mouth off about it online though. Isn't that the definition of a troll, someone who is happy to shout about their views online (when anonymous) and won't admit to them in public?

No, that's nothing like what a troll is. A troll posts stuff they don't believe just to cause arguments etc.

I'm sat at home with the footy on, and I have time to go into detail about my views on here. I don't have time to stand outside of school for half an hour arguing with someone I like in front of a load of other people that will know me and my family and wonder why the hell I'm arguing politics at school.

All of us have friends with different political views to our own, it's not worth falling out over. I don't have to worry about that on here, this is just a forum (no offence NSC).

If you really believed you were right, you would be open about your opinion.

Actually I don't know that I was right. I did what I thought was best, but I don't know. And I am happy to talk to friends about it, but preferably one on one, rather than in front of all the kids at school.

 

[Finchley Seagull]

As I already said,if you're gullible enough to believe YouGov statistics you are a bit of a silly billy.

I do when they reflect common sense. The older generation is, on the whole, more Euro sceptic and the younger generation more open to closer ties with Europe. It's not difficult.

 

[warmleyseagull]

Sounds a lot like changing the EU Constitution to the Lisbon Treaty to me. Same sh*t different name. No thanks. Let's have a friendly, cooperative and voluntary relationship with Europe like we do with any other nation. We have a great relationship with the U.S. without having to be an Associate State of America.

There's being friendly and there's doing business; it's the latter that bothers me.

 

[GoldWithFalmer]

When are we actually leaving The EU? Nobody from leave seems to have a clue on that one either.

As a leave voter as far as I am concerned unless we activate article 50 we are still in the EU... I would like a clean break and feel it's best for all if we do.

 

[Two Professors]

I saw a woman from Yorkshire who said "The EU's done nothing for us". The interviewer said "What about al the EU money that was given for urban regenreation after the pits closed? ". She looked blank for a few moments then banged her chest as said "I want my country back"

Shame it was from Wales,otherwise that might have been true.

 

[Triggaaar]

The best example you could think of for a remain voter having a silly reason to vote was that they didn't answer when asked why they voted remain.

I haven't looked online for the most stupid reason (you can see others here have come up with some special ones), I just said what I saw live on the BBC. It was funny, as he tried to answer, but then realised he had nothing. And to be fair, not many of us get ambushed and asked for a coherent answer live on TV.

That's not exactly a bad reason to vote in comparison to the many explicitly racist reasons that people have given for leaving.

I completely agree with you. I hate racism, it's a big issue for me, and of course some of the people in our country (and every country) are ****ing ****ers. But this thread isn't just about them, it's about all daft reasons for voting, and I'm saying that daft reasons don't only apply to the leavers.

 

[Seagull58]

Don't Switzerland and Norway have very high levels of immigration (higher than the UK?) which seems to be the main reason why many people here voted to leave in the first place? So yes you can negotiate back your ability to trade freely in Europe but at the cost of having to allow free movement of people as well. I can't see the EU giving us (at a cost of many billions per year) the trade benefit & ability of UK people to travel freely round Europe without also having to allow free movement of people into the UK from the EU?

There was a net immigration of foreigners taking permanent residence in Switzerland of 83,200 in 2007, and of 103,400 in 2008. Net immigration fell moderately in 2009, to 79,000, and continued to fall to 51,190 in 2012.[5]

The admission of people from non-EU/EFTA countries is regulated by the Foreign Nationals Act, and is limited to skilled workers who are urgently required and are likely to integrate successfully in the long term. There are quotas established yearly: in 2012 it was 3,500 residency permits and 5,000 short-term permits.[6]

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

You may mock but were the last part 2nd part of your question come true within the next 5 years we would be making headway.....I include our young mass unemployed in that I think you would agree that far too many of the youth of today have little or no prospect..

But therein lies the flaw in the leavers argument. So many young people wanted to remain. And the simple reason for that is that we're willing to look abroad for opportunities.

Furthermore, you do realise that if they do leave, it's highly likely that at least one of two things will be happening. They leave either because our economy goes through a recession or our currency takes such a hit that it's no longer worth them staying in this country. If this is the case, then businesses are likely to be negatively affected too, which unfortunately means less jobs anyway.

The second likely option is that, if they leave because they're told they have to, then it will be at the expense of British nationals coming back into the country from abroad, many of whom are older generations who have retired abroad and who will put an even bigger long term strain on our economy and public services.

So whilst I don't disagree that youth unemployment is an issue, leaving the EU and having EU migrants leave isn't an actual solution that solves this issues.

 

[Finchley Seagull]

Scotland want to break the union and take us back 400 years no matter what- us little Englanders merely want to leave the EU

Can you blame them? They have one Tory MP but this awful government is inflicted on them in some policy areas. All areas of Scotland voted to stay in the EU yet they are forced to leave. Hardly much reason there for them to stay is there.

I've always hoped Scotland stay in the union but now hope they leave. Why should they suffer for the decisions they make. I'd actually really like London, Scotland and Northern Ireland leave the UK and join the EU and the rest of England and Wales can see how they manage on their own outside the EU (with apologies to the areas that voted to remain). I would imagine it wouldn't end well.

 

[ManOfSussex]

As a leave voter as far as I am concerned unless we activate article 50 we are still in the EU... I would like a clean break and feel it's best for all if we do.

When will article 50 be invoked, if it ever is to be? This year? Next year after the German & French elections? After the 2020 general election here? Nobody from leave has an answer to it.

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

When are we actually leaving The EU? Nobody from leave seems to have a clue on that one either.

Well we can't leave until we have a new PM. I don't see it happening until October. I kinda wish DC had just done it. Luckily for the leavers, he didn't, as it gives them time for a little victory dance.

 

[Raleigh Chopper]

I'm in Corfu at the moment, I've spoken to plenty of people here and every single one has said the same thing, they think us leaving the EU is a bad thing because of our bail out money. There is no other reason that people here can focus on.
We have been a total soft touch, always handing out cash and benefits to foreigners before assisting our own.
I'm as happy as a pig in shit that we're out and the Greeks agree that in our position they'd have voted out too.

Too much sun and Ouzo is never a good thing.
You have just summed up why the feral voted out, one reason and one reason only, shameful, still enjoy your holiday even though you are on the wrong island, hundreds to choose from and just like your ballot paper you made the wrong choice.
Have a Souvlaki Gyro for me.

 

[portslade seagull]

When are we actually leaving The EU? Nobody from leave seems to have a clue on that one either.

Well when Article50 is invoked it will take at least 2yrs, hope that helps