[Politics] Brexit

[WATFORD zero]

It’s almost unbelievable that we’re just 20 miles from the second largest economic area on the planet, yet not seamlessly part of it anymore. The EU have suffered from this too, losing effortless trade/resource sharing with our major economy.

I can see why Remainers have moved on. With a lack of interest from Labour/LibDems, it’s going to take literally an age to get a consensus on a new vote and then we’d need all EU members to want us back.

There are millions of Brits who upped sticks under freedom of movement to live almost anywhere they could afford to throughout the continent, a load of nsc’ers did that. That wonderful opportunity has been taken away from newbies. Some chance their arm by staying illegally, but countries such as France have a variety of bureaucratic measures to catch them out.

We holiday a fair amount. The new passport queues thing in the EU is still hard to get used to, self inflicted madness.

At the end of the day, after everybody else has had their say and run away, or had their little expletive ridden temper tantrums, we all know that it will be left to the grown ups to actually deal with what is staring us in the face and address the daily issues that are crashing our economy.

Wasn't It always the way

Do you ever feel weary

 

[Weststander]

At the end of the day, after everybody else has had their say and run away, or had their little expletive ridden temper tantrums, we all know that it will be left to the grown ups to actually deal with what is staring us in the face and actually address the daily issues that are crashing our economy.

Wasn't It always the way

The lack of interest from almost everyone (I’m not talking NSC) really surprises me.

I was kind of let’s see it how it pans out, then I read or heard the lack of inflow investment numbers (I’m not talking the damaging thing of rich Chinese buying BTL’s off plan). This will curse the UK for an age, directly affecting continued low productivity compared to neighbours. Equating to low pay, lower exports, lower tax revenues, not reducing state debt, less money for roads, NHS, mental health, schools.

‘Journalists’ and TV news execs these days have been immersed in race to bottom ratings battles on who can talk about flavour of the day domestic subjects the most. Culture wars, Princess Kate, grandstanding in the Commons.

The EU …. James O’Brien’s the last man standing.

 

[A1X]

The problem for everyone just now is the coup d'etat of the Tory party. In the mid 90's Redwood and Cash were the outliers, now their ilk dominate.

I’ve said it elsewhere (probably on here too) but the Tory party needs to have a “Kinnock vs Militant” moment somewhere down the line. A leader who realises what it will take to regain power facing down the hardcore and the headbangers. Just as for Kinnock, it will be neither quick nor easy, but they need it to happen. It won’t be before the election, it almost certainly won’t be before the one after that (I believe the Tories will lurch to the right after the vote) but someday it must.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

The lack of interest from almost everyone (I’m not talking NSC) really surprises me.

I was kind of let’s see it how it pans out, then I read or heard the lack of inflow investment numbers (I’m not talking the damaging thing of rich Chinese buying BTL’s off plan). This will curse the UK for an age, directly affecting continued low productivity compared to neighbours. Equating to low pay, lower exports, lower tax revenues, not reducing state debt, less money for roads, NHS, mental health, schools.

‘Journalists’ and TV news execs these days have been immersed in race to bottom ratings battles on who can talk about flavour of the day domestic subjects the most. Culture wars, Princess Kate, grandstanding in the Commons.

The EU …. James O’Brien’s the last man standing.

Spot on. We are rubbish at anger, we Brits. Weird.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I’ve said it elsewhere (probably on here too) but the Tory party needs to have a “Kinnock vs Militant” moment somewhere down the line. A leader who realises what it will take to regain power facing down the hardcore and the headbangers. Just as for Kinnock, it will be neither quick nor easy, but they need it to happen. It won’t be before the election, it almost certainly won’t be before the one after that (I believe the Tories will lurch to the right after the vote) but someday it must.

Trouble is, The tories lack passionate advocates in the party. Sunk is a technocrat, but the rest of them are much the same, or chancers pr carpetbaggers. Who has the passion in the parliamentary conservative party to save them? They look well-f***ed to me. Listless. Even Mordor has a tainted record. Can she Rise Up? Let's see.

 

[WATFORD zero]

The lack of interest from almost everyone (I’m not talking NSC) really surprises me.

I was kind of let’s see it how it pans out, then I read or heard the lack of inflow investment numbers (I’m not talking the damaging thing of rich Chinese buying BTL’s off plan). This will curse the UK for an age, directly affecting continued low productivity compared to neighbours. Equating to low pay, lower exports, lower tax revenues, not reducing state debt, less money for roads, NHS, mental health, schools.

‘Journalists’ and TV news execs these days have been immersed in race to bottom ratings battles on who can talk about flavour of the day domestic subjects the most. Culture wars, Princess Kate, grandstanding in the Commons.

The EU …. James O’Brien’s the last man standing.

But this is the whole point. @Simster thinks I constantly go on about it. but that's because it is getting worse on a daily basis and has to be addressed despite his somewhat limited expletives and subsequent anger. If he's going to let this continue on a daily basis without comment, he may as well have voted for it

At some point. we have to say enough is enough and I think that point has come and tried to point it out with a very simple 'where are we now in 2024' poll but apparently that wasn't going to happen

Does anybody really think the direction we are heading is the way forward and continuing is the way ahead ?

Maybe someone could start a poll but we all know what would happen

 

[Weststander]

Trouble is, The tories lack passionate advocates in the party. Sunk is a technocrat, but the rest of them are much the same, or chancers pr carpetbaggers. Who has the passion in the parliamentary conservative party to save them? They look well-f***ed to me. Listless. Even Mordor has a tainted record. Can she Rise Up? Let's see.

The only Tory hope is in the next parliament. Some bad economic numbers perhaps, Abbott/Corbyn types and the hard left on Starmer’s case from day one, aggressive River To Sea loons attacking Labour, plus Hunt is currently boxing Labour into a fiscal corner. Imho Reeves shouldn’t have said no to various tax increases. I realise why she said it, but the polls lead is vast and generational.

People here who think Labour have the Commons sewn up for two or maybe three parliaments shouldn’t be so sure.

I want it to work btw. For the country, for individuals.

 

[Weststander]

But this is the whole point. @Simster thinks I constantly go on about it. but that's because it is getting worse on a daily basis and has to be addressed despite his expletives and anger. If he's going to let this continue on a daily basis without comment, he may as well have voted for it

At some point. we have to say enough is enough and I think that point has come and tried to point it out with a very simple 'where are we now in 2024' poll but apparently that wasn't going to happen

Does anybody really think the direction we are heading is the way forward and continuing is the way ahead ?

Maybe someone could start a poll but we all know what would happen

I suppose we have to be patient, in certain parts of life I’m rubbish at that.

Step 1 - Starmer and Reeves do good things, the bitter left and Murdoch unable to spoil it.
Step 2 - They moot exploratory discussions with the EU on our relationship. Met largely enthusiastically in the UK.
Step 3 - NSC powers that be run a new poll, with several options. Not public!

That timeline’s sh1t for people just now who could really benefit from freedom of movement.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

The only Tory hope is in the next parliament. Some bad economic numbers perhaps, Abbott/Corbyn types and the hard left on Starmer’s case from day one, aggressive River To Sea loons attacking Labour, plus Hunt is currently boxing Labour into a fiscal corner. Imho Reeves shouldn’t have said no to various tax increases. I realise why she said it, but the polls lead is vast and generational.

People here who think Labour have the Commons sewn up for two or maybe three parliaments shouldn’t be so sure.

I want it to work btw. For the country, for individuals.

Yep. All that.

My consolation is that you don't become DPP if you are a duffer.

Meanwhile Sunk is little more than his wife's fluffer

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

But this is the whole point. @Simster thinks I constantly go on about it. but that's because it is getting worse on a daily basis and has to be addressed despite his somewhat limited expletives and subsequent anger. If he's going to let this continue on a daily basis without comment, he may as well have voted for it

At some point. we have to say enough is enough and I think that point has come and tried to point it out with a very simple 'where are we now in 2024' poll but apparently that wasn't going to happen

Does anybody really think the direction we are heading is the way forward and continuing is the way ahead ?

Maybe someone could start a poll but we all know what would happen

Only one poll in town, this year

 

[WATFORD zero]

Only one poll in town, this year

It's almost as if the majority of the electorate struggle with more than one question or more than three words

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

It's almost as if the majority of the electorate struggle with more than one question or more than three words

Even "faster, pussycat. Kill! Kill!" has too many words for some.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Even "faster, pussycat. Kill! Kill!" has too many words for some.

Proppa quality



Quentin who ??

 

[Weststander]

Yep. All that.

My consolation is that you don't become DPP if you are a duffer.

Meanwhile Sunk is little more than his wife's fluffer

Imho the technocrat would’ve been a decent chancellor in a non-right wing Tory party. Ten years ago he was normal and pro EU.

Ken Clarke was the best chancellor in my lifetime. So far.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Proppa quality



Quentin who ??

Russ did better to be fair. Ahem. What's the offspring of a pussycat?

 

[nicko31]

It’s almost unbelievable that we’re just 20 miles from the second largest economic area on the planet, yet not seamlessly part of it anymore. The EU have suffered from this too, losing effortless trade/resource sharing with our major economy.

I can see why Remainers have moved on. With a lack of interest from Labour/LibDems, it’s going to take literally an age to get a consensus on a new vote and then we’d need all EU members to want us back.

There are millions of Brits who upped sticks under freedom of movement to live almost anywhere they could afford to throughout the continent, a load of nsc’ers did that. That wonderful opportunity has been taken away from newbies. Some chance their arm by staying illegally, but countries such as France have a variety of bureaucratic measures to catch them out.

We holiday a fair amount. The new passport queues thing in the EU is still hard to get used to, self inflicted madness.

Leaving the EU one thing but leaving the customs union was beyond stupidity

I just had a scenario in my line work.

A customer made an enquiry to us from Italy for £5k's worth in IT product we had in stock. It was all going well, they liked the price but as soon as I started talking commercial invoices, comodity codes and VAT they went quiet.

My follow up resulted in being told they were not set up to do International trade and had found stock in the Netherlands, even though the price was a little higher. So immediately we've lost trade and corp tax to someone else.

I hate to think what is must be like shipping animal or food products. I think the answer is small businesses are locked out without an EU office and even then profit will be booked elsewhere, not in the EU

 

[Weststander]

I just had a scenario in my line work.

A customer made an enquiry to us from Italy for £5k's worth in IT product we had in stock. It was all going well, they liked the price but as soon as I started talking commercial invoices, comodity codes and VAT they went quiet.

My follow up resulted in being told they were not set up to do International trade and had found stock in the Netherlands, even though the price was a little higher. So immediately we've lost trade and corp tax to someone else.

I hate to think what is must be like shipping animal or food products. I think the answer is small businesses are locked out without an EU office and even then profit will be booked elsewhere, not in the EU

Interestingly and sadly, EU businesses have suffered from Brexit too. Stock markets indice have struggled, consumers/businesses that previously bought from the UK for a better price (your example) or for a superior/unique good or service often now don’t. The cost of new red tape. Ease of access to our own huge marketplace to sell.

The EU had faults, but economically it made complete sense.

 

[nicko31]

Interestingly and sadly, EU businesses have suffered from Brexit too. Stock markets indice have struggled, consumers/businesses that previously bought from the UK for a better price (your example) or for a superior/unique good or service often now don’t. The cost of new red tape. Ease of access to our own huge marketplace to sell.

The EU had faults, but economically it made complete sense.

The fact is on a level playing field Brits are favoured, we speak the language of International business, we're flexible and agile. A German would rather generally buy from a Brit than from France (a total pain to work).

You are right EU business has suffering esp SME's just like here. More power to big business, Lidl can import custard tarts from Portugal but for the family owned deli down the road, forget it...

 

[Pavilionaire]

Leaving the EU one thing but leaving the customs union was beyond stupidity

I just had a scenario in my line work.

A customer made an enquiry to us from Italy for £5k's worth in IT product we had in stock. It was all going well, they liked the price but as soon as I started talking commercial invoices, comodity codes and VAT they went quiet.

My follow up resulted in being told they were not set up to do International trade and had found stock in the Netherlands, even though the price was a little higher. So immediately we've lost trade and corp tax to someone else.

I hate to think what is must be like shipping animal or food products. I think the answer is small businesses are locked out without an EU office and even then profit will be booked elsewhere, not in the EU

The focus should now be on the 'upside' of Brexit. What new trade deals mean for our economy, how regaining control of our borders is reducing immigration and small boat crossing, we should be grateful that since we've left food is cheaper and the net £10 billion we're saving in EU fees is being ploughed back into the NHS to make it better.

Forget about the EU, let's focus on the positives of Taking Back Control and stop blaming Covid, Ukraine for surpressing the obvioua benefits of Brexit.

 

[Weststander]

The fact is on a level playing field Brits are favoured, we speak the language of International business. A German would rather generally buy from a Brit that from France (a total pain to work).

You are right EU business has suffering esp SME's just like here. More power to big business, Lidl can import custard tarts from Portugal but for the family owned deli down the road, forget it...

Salient point. During the post vote years, the lovely Anna Holligan and Katya Adler in their BBC24 EU chats mentioned many times that Germany, its politicians and business leaders respected and loved doing business with the UK. They said exactly the same for the Netherlands and Nordic nations. A natural affinity of getting things done. Whereas the French were seen as obstinate, uncompromising in a bad way, with petty bureaucracies.

The first bit was heart warming. The factual nitty gritty. The antithesis of “they’re our adversaries” propaganda, from bad actors.