[Politics] Brexit

[DavidinSouthampton]

All referendums are advisory in that sense. There is a fairly significant minority of people who would have been happy to stay in the EU on the grounds that the referendum was only advisory, but I suspect that was not a matter of principle, only a matter of wanting to stay. I suspect their principles would not have extended to a Johnson or other government pulling out of the EU if the referendum had voted to stay, but of course the principle is exactly the same.

I understand the arguments that the EU referendum and the Scottish referendum should have been on more than a simple majority view, but I think in both cases it was right to do it that way. But the next vote, and all subsequent votes, now that the people have been consulted, should be as you say on a higher threshhold.

That’s a very bland response to a post where I was very strongly rejecting what I thought was the main point of your original post.
but the significance, the import, the fundamental importance of the question being asked in that referendum IS PRECISELY WHY it should not have been a straight majority decision.

 

[sydney]

And then we have your mindless ramblings which hold no water.

to be fair there are a fair few self righteous ****s on here who live in lovely little southern villages and see nothing wrong at all with letting legions of 20/30/40 year old foreign males into Britain cos they're all just coming for a better life ....they don't have the life experience of those who live in parts of London , Birmingham , Leicester , Nottingham , Oldham and numerous other towns around the country .... People like this have got a rude awakening coming pretty soon unfortunately......never mind eh......NURSE....!!

 

[sydney]

Imagine quoting the wrong but ironically appropriate post, you really need to be quicker on the edit button

It's very kind of you to offer, and I don't wish to appear rude, but if myself and H had wanted to be joined by a dribbling moron, we would have arranged this before ppf was banned

AHH...!! the feather in your shrivelled up , poor excuse for a cap...!! well done old chap , well done..

 

[sydney]

If it hits Burnley, would anyone notice?

it would f*** RAMADAN for a start.

 

[nicko31]

I think the Lib Dems are right to keep schtum on Rejoin. Certain things need time to play out and this is one of them. But make no mistake, being part of Europe is in Lib Dem DNA and in the longer term they will be aiming for EFTA status at the very least.

I agree to hold fire on rejoin.

But surely a closer membership ASAP to include the customs union at the closest opportunity and the TCA is up for review next year.

Our tax base has taken a hit and we need to stop UK businesses setting up in Europe and booking their profits in the EU, not to mention the huge cost of all the customs red tape of imports which is helping feed inflation.

 

[Pavilionaire]

I agree to hold fire on rejoin.

But surely a closer membership ASAP to include the customs union at the closest opportunity and the TCA is up for review next year.

Our tax base has taken a hit and we need to stop UK businesses setting up in Europe and booking their profits in the EU, not to mention the huge cost of all the customs red tape of imports which is helping feed inflation.

A bloke in the audience of Question Time (probably Clacton-on-Sea) summed it up when he said "We voted Leave in 2016. We have 4 years of faffing about before we actually left, then we had 2 years of Covid, so Brexit hasn't really even started properly yet." Cue huge applause from the audience.

I think any moves for meaningful closer ties with Europe have to be taken with clear, demonstrable, unequivocal evidence that a post-Brexit Britain is clearly and systemically doing worse than the other EU states.

For people like myself, seeing inflation stall at 6.7% when the EU average is 4.3% is an indicator that Brexit has loaded us individually with extra costs re importing and red tape. Ditto the persistent labour shortages. However, it will take more than this for many Leavers to finally admit the mistake of Brexit.

 

[Wozza]

Have we done this?

“There will be no downside to Brexit at all, and considerable upsides” - David Davis MP, October 2016

Here are 1492 downsides to Brexit...

The Davis Downside Dossier

David Davis famously said there would be no downsides to Brexit only considerable upsides - so we started recording them.

yorkshirebylines.co.uk

 

[nicko31]

Have we done this?

“There will be no downside to Brexit at all, and considerable upsides” - David Davis MP, October 2016

Here are 1492 downsides to Brexit...

The Davis Downside Dossier

David Davis famously said there would be no downsides to Brexit only considerable upsides - so we started recording them.

yorkshirebylines.co.uk

And over 7 years since the vote still no one on NSC has managed to name a significant benefit

 

[Binney on acid]

There will be benefits, but possibly not in our lifetime.
Come to think of it, I retract that statement.
I don't think there will be any benefits.

 

[Greenbag50]

If you want a benefit of Brexit, here it is: British employers must now innovate again | Larry Elliott

Our economic model relied on a bottomless supply of cheap workers. Firms must now invest to boost productivity, says Larry Elliott, the Guardian’s economics editor

www.theguardian.com

 

[Randy McNob]

to be fair there are a fair few self righteous ****s on here who live in lovely little southern villages and see nothing wrong at all with letting legions of 20/30/40 year old foreign males into Britain cos they're all just coming for a better life ....they don't have the life experience of those who live in parts of London , Birmingham , Leicester , Nottingham , Oldham and numerous other towns around the country .... People like this have got a rude awakening coming pretty soon unfortunately......never mind eh......NURSE....!!

and you live a lovely little paradise on the other side of of the planet, completely insultated from issues in the UK come on here calling other people self righteous, wanchor, sitting on your sun lounger with your copy of the daily mail, what you don't realise or will ever admit is people like you are the problem. For you to have a nice comfortable life means others have to be on the other end of the scale. the haves and the have not. and for you to come on here and vilify those that are desperate and have nothing makes you sub-human. shame on you, I really don't know how you sleep at night.

 

[nwgull]

And over 7 years since the vote still no one on NSC has managed to name a significant benefit

I believe I have one: we were able to abolish VAT on sanitary products - the so-called Tampon Tax - whereas within EU we had a minimum rate of 5%.

I mean it’s feminist causes such as this that you can imagine will have motivated the 50+ angry red-faced bloke demographic, which overwhelmingly voted leave.

 

[Blues Guitarist]

I believe I have one: we were able to abolish VAT on sanitary products - the so-called Tampon Tax - whereas within EU we had a minimum rate of 5%.

I mean it’s feminist causes such as this that you can imagine will have motivated the 50+ angry red-faced bloke demographic, which overwhelmingly voted leave.

The EU got rid of the so-called Tampon Tax last year.

When the 5% VAT rate was cut in the UK only 1% of that saving was passed to consumers. Another Brexit benefit.

UK retailers not passing on tampon tax savings to women, report says

Exclusive: Abolition of 5% VAT on period products only resulted in 1% cut in prices at most, research finds

www.theguardian.com

 

[The Lemming Stomper]

I believe I have one: we were able to abolish VAT on sanitary products - the so-called Tampon Tax - whereas within EU we had a minimum rate of 5%.

I mean it’s feminist causes such as this that you can imagine will have motivated the 50+ angry red-faced bloke demographic, which overwhelmingly voted leave.

I always associate angry 50+ red faced bloke Brexiteers with the place where tampons go !

A 'bunch of them' the correct collective noun

 

[Hamilton]

Brexit really is shite.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Brexit really is shite.

Erudite and to the point. I salute you.

 

[nwgull]

The EU got rid of the so-called Tampon Tax last year.

When the 5% VAT rate was cut in the UK only 1% of that saving was passed to consumers. Another Brexit benefit.

UK retailers not passing on tampon tax savings to women, report says

Exclusive: Abolition of 5% VAT on period products only resulted in 1% cut in prices at most, research finds

www.theguardian.com

Yeh but we got rid of it in 2021! That's a whole year's worth of Brexit benefit to women betweem the ages of approximately 14-45 that those angry red-faced 50+ men had been campaigning for for decades.

 

[WATFORD zero]

If you want a benefit of Brexit, here it is: British employers must now innovate again | Larry Elliott

Our economic model relied on a bottomless supply of cheap workers. Firms must now invest to boost productivity, says Larry Elliott, the Guardian’s economics editor

www.theguardian.com

Have you actually read the article you posted ? Too right British manufacturers will have to innovate now that export markets have been decimated, the British economy has been completely throttled and there's staff shortages in so many industries as a direct result of Brexit. You've obviously never tried to run businesses

And that is a benefit ?

 

[chickens]

Have you actually read the article you posted ? Too right British manufacturers will have to innovate now that export markets have been decimated, the British economy has been completely throttled and there's staff shortages in so many industries as a direct result of Brexit

And that is a benefit ?

I am bang alongside you in thinking that Brexit is a disaster. I also agree that giving the British businesses that are left post-Brexit and post-Covid another headache hardly counts as a cast iron benefit.

However, there is a potential benefit there to staff, if employers begin to value the good staff that they have. One of the downsides of the last decade for me, has been the breakdown in what I had always previously seen as the historically good relationship between staff and employer.

Perhaps I was just lucky in my earlier working life, but in my pre-2010 employment, I was in smaller companies and had some genuine respect for my employer, which they (at least convincingly appeared) to reciprocate. There was a feeling that duty of care wasn’t just a box-ticking exercise.

My two employers since 2010 have both been far more “if this **** won’t work get another one in” in their approach to staff, treating staff as a disposable and limitless resource.

If there is a genuine sea change in how employers treat staff, then perhaps some good could come, but I can’t say that I’ve seen it happening yet, at least not where I work currently.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Have you actually read the article you posted ? Too right British manufacturers will have to innovate now that export markets have been decimated, the British economy has been completely throttled and there's staff shortages in so many industries as a direct result of Brexit

And that is a benefit ?

Headlines. It’s all about the headlines. It made Murdoch a billionaire.