[Politics] Brexit

[WATFORD zero]

I am bang alongside you in thinking that Brexit is a disaster. I also agree that giving the British businesses that are left post-Brexit and post-Covid another headache hardly counts as a cast iron benefit.

However, there is a potential benefit there to staff, if employers begin to value the good staff that they have. One of the downsides of the last decade for me, has been the breakdown in what I had always previously seen as the historically good relationship between staff and employer.

Perhaps I was just lucky in my earlier working life, but in my pre-2010 employment, I was in smaller companies and had some genuine respect for my employer, which they (at least convincingly appeared) to reciprocate. There was a feeling that duty of care wasn’t just a box-ticking exercise.

My two employers since 2010 have both been far more “if this **** won’t work get another one in” in their approach to staff, treating staff as a disposable and limitless resource.

If there is a genuine sea change in how employers treat staff, then perhaps some good could come, but I can’t say that I’ve seen it happening yet, at least not where I work currently.

I retired some years ago, so haven't got any recent experience, but my early career was with big financial institutions and later in SMEs. Although I found good and bad in both, I preferred the reality, focus and simple honesty of SMEs and found them to be far more supportive to the employees (but I would say that ).

With SMEs we were always fully aware that it wasn't just a business, but the employees, mortgages, families and their health that we were taking on

 

[sydney]

and you live a lovely little paradise on the other side of of the planet, completely insultated from issues in the UK come on here calling other people self righteous, wanchor, sitting on your sun lounger with your copy of the daily mail, what you don't realise or will ever admit is people like you are the problem. For you to have a nice comfortable life means others have to be on the other end of the scale. the haves and the have not. and for you to come on here and vilify those that are desperate and have nothing makes you sub-human. shame on you, I really don't know how you sleep at night.

mate Perth is more cosmopolitan than any part of sussex , the difference is everybody goes to work and contributes to society , not like the millions up in town and the midlands who do absolutely f*** all other than breed while you lot sit on the coast moaning about racists ....get yer head out yer arse ffs....i sleep like a fuckin log mate ...no worries , this shit storm has been coming a long time , started by Blair who is STILL taking millions by patronising and gaslighting people like you ..........never had a cent or pound of any government ever , never raped , killed or thieved ..........only ever done good........ta ta , you silly , silly man.

 

[Weststander]

I am bang alongside you in thinking that Brexit is a disaster. I also agree that giving the British businesses that are left post-Brexit and post-Covid another headache hardly counts as a cast iron benefit.

However, there is a potential benefit there to staff, if employers begin to value the good staff that they have. One of the downsides of the last decade for me, has been the breakdown in what I had always previously seen as the historically good relationship between staff and employer.

Perhaps I was just lucky in my earlier working life, but in my pre-2010 employment, I was in smaller companies and had some genuine respect for my employer, which they (at least convincingly appeared) to reciprocate. There was a feeling that duty of care wasn’t just a box-ticking exercise.

My two employers since 2010 have both been far more “if this **** won’t work get another one in” in their approach to staff, treating staff as a disposable and limitless resource.

If there is a genuine sea change in how employers treat staff, then perhaps some good could come, but I can’t say that I’ve seen it happening yet, at least not where I work currently.

I’ve a good insight on this, having sat in countless businesses with owners and then staff where there owners weren’t about. It started way before Brexit, owner directors in the 00’s and early 10’s who treated the staff like xxxx, lied about vast profits to confirm zero annual pay awards because “the business is struggling right now, we’ll look at it in a year’s time”. Two notable examples, manufacturers both on the Sussex coast where the multiple owners directors were working class lads made good, they all claimed to be lifelong Labour, very successful businesses swimming in cash, yet the staff were bullied, paid so poorly.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

mate Perth is more cosmopolitan than any part of sussex , the difference is everybody goes to work and contributes to society , not like the millions up in town and the midlands who do absolutely f*** all other than breed while you lot sit on the coast moaning about racists ....get yer head out yer arse ffs....i sleep like a fuckin log mate ...no worries , this shit storm has been coming a long time , started by Blair who is STILL taking millions by patronising and gaslighting people like you ..........never had a cent or pound of any government ever , never raped , killed or thieved ..........only ever done good........ta ta , you silly , silly man.

Wake up and smell the coffee….. but you need to smell it over here.
in what way did Blair start this shit storm? Most people were better off under Blair. Things were done to help people.
Our current government doesn’t seem to like people who want to contribute to society. Makes life difficult for doctors, nurses, teachers. Schools are falling apart. Hospitals have wards and areas closed because the buildings are not fit for use. Cameron and his government oversaw austerity, which made it all worse for everyone. Investment in infrastructure has been pathetic, which is why schools and hospitals are falling apart.

and there was an article in the Observer yesterday by Will Hutton, a respected economist, who pointed out that the lack of spending on infrastructure was actually started off by Thatcher…… so it’s all her fault. The Blair years were actually a respite from that.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

mate Perth is more cosmopolitan than any part of sussex , the difference is everybody goes to work and contributes to society , not like the millions up in town and the midlands who do absolutely f*** all other than breed while you lot sit on the coast moaning about racists ....get yer head out yer arse ffs....i sleep like a fuckin log mate ...no worries , this shit storm has been coming a long time , started by Blair who is STILL taking millions by patronising and gaslighting people like you ..........never had a cent or pound of any government ever , never raped , killed or thieved ..........only ever done good........ta ta , you silly , silly man.

Crikey. Every day is a school day on NSC.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Wake up and smell the coffee….. but you need to smell it over here.
in what way did Blair start this shit storm? Most people were better off under Blair. Things were done to help people.
Our current government doesn’t seem to like people who want to contribute to society. Makes life difficult for doctors, nurses, teachers. Schools are falling apart. Hospitals have wards and areas closed because the buildings are not fit for use. Cameron and his government oversaw austerity, which made it all worse for everyone. Investment in infrastructure has been pathetic, which is why schools and hospitals are falling apart.

and there was an article in the Observer yesterday by Will Hutton, a respected economist, who pointed out that the lack of spending on infrastructure was actually started off by Thatcher…… so it’s all her fault. The Blair years were actually a respite from that.

This.

 

[nicko31]

I believe I have one: we were able to abolish VAT on sanitary products - the so-called Tampon Tax - whereas within EU we had a minimum rate of 5%.

I mean it’s feminist causes such as this that you can imagine will have motivated the 50+ angry red-faced bloke demographic, which overwhelmingly voted leave.

I think we had that a few years ago. It was rejected by NSC remoaner crew, not significant enough

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I think we had that a few years ago. It was rejected by NSC remoaner crew, not significant enough

It didn’t benefit women which it was meant to, because of greedy retailers.

UK retailers not passing on tampon tax savings to women, report says

Exclusive: Abolition of 5% VAT on period products only resulted in 1% cut in prices at most, research finds

www.theguardian.com

 

[Randy McNob]

mate Perth is more cosmopolitan than any part of sussex , the difference is everybody goes to work and contributes to society , not like the millions up in town and the midlands who do absolutely f*** all other than breed while you lot sit on the coast moaning about racists ....get yer head out yer arse ffs....i sleep like a fuckin log mate ...no worries , this shit storm has been coming a long time , started by Blair who is STILL taking millions by patronising and gaslighting people like you ..........never had a cent or pound of any government ever , never raped , killed or thieved ..........only ever done good........ta ta , you silly , silly man.

Ooooh I see, all these people that live on the breadline or have been forced to flee their homes, or have disabilities or mental health issues simply have get a job and go to work and contribite to society like you, Mr goody two shoes. They all have the same opportunities as you, free education, training, housing, jobs a plenty, yet shun all of that and choose a life of debauchery and anti social behaviour.

What an ignorant shallow minded fool you are

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Ooooh I see, all these people that live on the breadline or have been forced to flee their homes, or have disabilities or mental health issues simply have get a job and go to work and contribite to society like you, Mr goody two shoes. They all have the same opportunities as you, free education, training, housing, jobs a plenty, yet shun all of that and choose a life of debauchery and anti social behaviour.

What an ignorant shallow minded fool you are

He does have a touch of the 'three yorkshiremen' about him, which is a pity.

 

[chickens]

I’ve a good insight on this, having sat in countless businesses with owners and then staff where there owners weren’t about. It started way before Brexit, owner directors in the 00’s and early 10’s who treated the staff like xxxx, lied about vast profits to confirm zero annual pay awards because “the business is struggling right now, we’ll look at it in a year’s time”. Two notable examples, manufacturers both on the Sussex coast where the multiple owners directors were working class lads made good, they all claimed to be lifelong Labour, very successful businesses swimming in cash, yet the staff were bullied, paid so poorly.

That is a great shame. I had the good fortune to work for decent employers through most of my early working life, so it came as a great shock to me to move to an organisation where people were treated poorly. Having made up my mind to be off and move again, I’m seeing much the same behaviour at my current employer (including the tales of woe around pay awards, while the records at Companies House tell a different story)

I’m sadly yet to see any significant swing in attitude where I am currently, but some of the staff who’ve left have been replaced by people who aren’t entirely up to muster, so perhaps there will be a long-term drip effect, as work is certainly taking longer to get through the pipeline than it used to.

 

[sydney]

Ooooh I see, all these people that live on the breadline or have been forced to flee their homes, or have disabilities or mental health issues simply have get a job and go to work and contribite to society like you, Mr goody two shoes. They all have the same opportunities as you, free education, training, housing, jobs a plenty, yet shun all of that and choose a life of debauchery and anti social behaviour.

What an ignorant shallow minded fool you are

what the f*** are you on about ...?? to support those that you mention above then a larger proportion of the population has to ago to work and pay taxes to keep the kitty full.......there are genuine charity cases and then there are economic migrants taking the piss big time to the massive detriment of British society in general. Blair swallowed the WMD bullshit from across the pond that started the Afghan conflict.... just like the Israelis now have got away with flattening a hospital in Gaza on the proviso that it had a tunnel network underneath being used by Hamas ....no such network exists , you swallow the toxic rhetoric you moose...it's your choice ffs.

ignorant , shallow minded, ok mate

 

[sydney]

He does have a touch of the 'three yorkshiremen' about him, which is a pity.

jumping on the bandwagon harry ....ffs......tsk

 

[sydney]

Wake up and smell the coffee….. but you need to smell it over here.
in what way did Blair start this shit storm? Most people were better off under Blair. Things were done to help people.
Our current government doesn’t seem to like people who want to contribute to society. Makes life difficult for doctors, nurses, teachers. Schools are falling apart. Hospitals have wards and areas closed because the buildings are not fit for use. Cameron and his government oversaw austerity, which made it all worse for everyone. Investment in infrastructure has been pathetic, which is why schools and hospitals are falling apart.

and there was an article in the Observer yesterday by Will Hutton, a respected economist, who pointed out that the lack of spending on infrastructure was actually started off by Thatcher…… so it’s all her fault. The Blair years were actually a respite from that.

see above , below whatever , Blair was sucked in by the yanks .....Blair is a criminal , you know anything about economics ...?? the biggest income for western governments is income tax , outsourcing services and industry moves that income offshore.........how much has the British govt. spent on weapons in the last 30 years and what has the return been on that "investment"..?? Britain has been played like a violin and the results of that are now coming into fruition.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

jumping on the bandwagon harry ....ffs......tsk

You do, though

(a bit more sweary, I'll grant you).

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

see above , below whatever , Blair was sucked in by the yanks .....Blair is a criminal , you know anything about economics ...?? the biggest income for western governments is income tax , outsourcing services and industry moves that income offshore.........how much has the British govt. spent on weapons in the last 30 years and what has the return been on that "investment"..?? Britain has been played like a violin and the results of that are now coming into fruition.

Blair might have been a bit stupid over the Iraq war, but that doesn’t change the fact that people in his home country were better looked after under his government.
I am not an economist but am not totally ignorant on the subject. Income tax, followed by National Insurance and VAT.
I don’t get your point about outsourcing services and industry Moving that income offshore. Is this about Brexit moving well paid jobs in finance to Paris, Munich or wherever? Or about most of our utilities being owned by foreign companies? As for defence spending, what has that got to do with anything. It’s mostly, I guess, a deterrent and would you expect a Return on Investment on it. Whilst hardly being a hawk, I would recognise the Armed Forces as being at worst necessary and at best a force for good - peacekeeping? Dealing with emergencies at home? And the like.
And I’d be interested to know who is playing the violin. The main things that have messed this country up are the incompetents who have been in charge since Cameron onwards.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Blair might have been a bit stupid over the Iraq war, but that doesn’t change the fact that people in his home country were better looked after under his government.
I am not an economist but am not totally ignorant on the subject. Income tax, followed by National Insurance and VAT.
I don’t get your point about outsourcing services and industry Moving that income offshore. Is this about Brexit moving well paid jobs in finance to Paris, Munich or wherever? Or about most of our utilities being owned by foreign companies? As for defence spending, what has that got to do with anything. It’s mostly, I guess, a deterrent and would you expect a Return on Investment on it. Whilst hardly being a hawk, I would recognise the Armed Forces as being at worst necessary and at best a force for good - peacekeeping? Dealing with emergencies at home? And the like.
And I’d be interested to know who is playing the violin. The main things that have messed this country up are the incompetents who have been in charge since Cameron onwards.

I'm afraid that once @sydney is off and ranting (which to be fair is 99% of his posts) the thread subject has very little, if any relevance to his rant whatsoever

Between you and me, I don't think he wanted to go to the other side of the world, but was persuaded by his family and friends, that it was for the best, hence all his anger about a country that has absolutely no effect on him whatsoever. And his full stop button on his keyboard has been sticky for years

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

I'm afraid that once @sydney is off and ranting (which to be fair is 99% of his posts) the thread subject has very little, if any relevance to his rant whatsoever

Between you and me, I don't think he wanted to go to the other side of the world, but was persuaded by his family and friends, that it was for the best, hence all his anger about a country that has absolutely no effect on him whatsoever. And his full stop button on his keyboard has been sticky for years

Thanks for that.

but i actually quite enjoy answering things like that - having to think about things…… and wondering what on earth he was on about.

 

[Randy McNob]

what the f*** are you on about ...?? to support those that you mention above then a larger proportion of the population has to ago to work and pay taxes to keep the kitty full.......there are genuine charity cases and then there are economic migrants taking the piss big time to the massive detriment of British society in general. Blair swallowed the WMD bullshit from across the pond that started the Afghan conflict.... just like the Israelis now have got away with flattening a hospital in Gaza on the proviso that it had a tunnel network underneath being used by Hamas ....no such network exists , you swallow the toxic rhetoric you moose...it's your choice ffs.

ignorant , shallow minded, ok mate

The problems you highlight are of our own creating, people have to wait in limbo for years for their applications to be processed, they live on a pittance and are not allowed to work, all the time they are made to feel unwelcome by right wing media when all they are doing is exercising their rights. Most of these people want to work and start a new life, and yet we have chronic shortages of labour which is crippling our industries. Is it any wonder they become dissilusioned and desperate? This country suffers economically because the people at the top don't pay their fair share, because they control the media narrative so you point the finger of blame at those at the bottom. How many people travel thousands of miles, making dangerous journeys risking their lives just to come here and be a nuisance and cause trouble?

 

[Baldseagull]

The problems you highlight are of our own creating, people have to wait in limbo for years for their applications to be processed, they live on a pittance and are not allowed to work, all the time they are made to feel unwelcome by right wing media when all they are doing is exercising their rights. Most of these people want to work and start a new life, and yet we have chronic shortages of labour which is crippling our industries. Is it any wonder they become dissilusioned and desperate? This country suffers economically because the people at the top don't pay their fair share, because they control the media narrative so you point the finger of blame at those at the bottom. How many people travel thousands of miles, making dangerous journeys risking their lives just to come here and be a nuisance and cause trouble?

I find those people that hate asylum seekers, also hate Foreign aid, but there is this weird benefit of having asylum seekers for those people, in that we take the cash used to support people on asylum claims from the foreign aid budget, so a chunk of the money marked as foreign aid actually never leaves the UK.
It also makes the figures used to state what housing and feeding asylum claimants is costing "us", a bit false. The cost is to states we would otherwise be assisting with that money as genuine foreign aid.