[Politics] Brexit

[Mo Gosfield]

Increase in prices for many food items, reductions in consumers rights, reductions in workers rights and the classic old chestnut " Times are hard, we'll all have to tighten our belts in order to be competetive " ie, those at the bottom of the economy will have to suffer so as those at the top don't.

" Increase in prices for many food items "
I keep hearing this and realise that it is uttered by people who don't have a clue about the food industry. PRICES CHANGE ALL THE TIME...irrespective of Brexit. There are so many global factors. For about nine months, Pork has been rising sharply in price because of Chinese demand. They have swine flu and continually buy up European stocks, forcing up prices here. Bacon moves up and down. Eggs always have seasonal increases. Salmon has rocketed in price ( supply shortage ) Crop failures have knock on effects and then throw in changes in packaging etc.
Most go out shopping, know roughly what they want to buy and pay at the end, without studying the bill too closely. They have no idea how much the trade absorbs price increases to remain competitve. Any increases in food prices ( and there will be many decreases as well ) as a result of Brexit, will be hardly noticed, so the next time you decide to make a simplistic statement like this, just try and think it through a bit more clearly.

 

[Lever]

The referendum was not about who could get the most number of people whining and walking around central London. It was about getting a majority of those bothered to cast their vote to express a Leave or Remain opinion. The rest is history as they say.

...and you are a 'passionate Remainer'?
Really?

 

[Guinness Boy]

" Increase in prices for many food items "
I keep hearing this and realise that it is uttered by people who don't have a clue about the food industry. PRICES CHANGE ALL THE TIME...irrespective of Brexit. There are so many global factors. For about nine months, Pork has been rising sharply in price because of Chinese demand. They have swine flu and continually buy up European stocks, forcing up prices here. Bacon moves up and down. Eggs always have seasonal increases. Salmon has rocketed in price ( supply shortage ) Crop failures have knock on effects and then throw in changes in packaging etc.
Most go out shopping, know roughly what they want to buy and pay at the end, without studying the bill too closely. They have no idea how much the trade absorbs price increases to remain competitve. Any increases in food prices ( and there will be many decreases as well ) as a result of Brexit, will be hardly noticed, so the next time you decide to make a simplistic statement like this, just try and think it through a bit more clearly.

You've said this before and been proved quite wrong. My wife knows the price of everything we buy to the penny and will adjust the weekly shop accordingly and she's not the only person I know who will do so.

Supermarkets will discount or Special Offer things they want rid of to free up space / compete with another supermarket. So headline supermarket prices are artifical anyway.

And Brexit will bring ADDITIONAL instability to the food market. It will change the prices of things where the price is already changing. It's like saying longer queues at the airport are ok because we already queue up a bit anyway.

 

[Hugo Rune]

I understand the argument around 'sovereignty' and 'one nation one law' but I don't think they hold up.

To me they sound like they come from a section of the country that has spent 40 years looking at front page headlines concerning 'straight bananas', 'ban selling eggs by the dozen' 'Up Yours Delores' - the list is endless (a rather depressing Google search) instead of embracing the club we asked to join, then almost instantly opted out of x, y, & z.

We've allowed our thinking to be formed by the tabloid press, which then becomes a news story, which then has to be balanced, who have fed us what we want Little Englanders, Fighting the Enemy, Saving Europe, WWII.

It's a shame the UK has never been allowed to appreciate the positives from the EU, although not surprising as it's all incredibly boring, dry and going on in the background ever so slowly making the UK a better place.

You make some really interesting points.

The language most of the media has always used around the EU is ‘them & us’. But we are the ‘us’. It is always framed as the ‘U.K.’ vs the ‘EU’ on issues but that is not the view anywhere else in the world. Most other European countries see us as (along with France & Germany) as a decision maker and leading country in the EU, part of the big three.

Then you have Russia, USA & China. In terms of trade and world politics, they need the EU split, Russia has spent millions of roubles on the leave campaign to achieve this aim. They know that once we are out, our voice and influence on world affairs will be profoundly curtailed with the EU being severely weakened. Great for the Chinese take over of the World economy and for the Russian take over of World Politics whilst Trump’s USA invades our country economically and adds institutions to it’s ownership like the NHS and probably a great deal more as we go to them cup in hand like we did after the Second World War.

Whilst all this chaos ensues, Somerset Capital Management will absolutely thrive as it continues to bet against British businesses making it’s share holders richer than their wildest dreams whilst the country‘s economy shatters.

I suspect Cummings came up with the ‘Let’s Just Get It Done’ campaign. I’m glad we still have Political hero’s like Letwin to scrutinise the self interested cowboys pulling the strings at number 10. The Maastricht treaty took 40 days to get through Parliament and Boris and his cronies are trying to force a wretched deal through in just a few days. Parliamentary scrutiny is now irrelevant to millions of leavers who ‘just want it done’.

Promise to rip up the likes of the Treaty of Versailles and so many people fall for it! The Brexit process has brought us a lying, conceited, self interested and dangerous leader in the mould of his handler, Trump. What has our Country come to?

 

[Hugo Rune]

...and you are a 'passionate Remainer'?
Really?

It’s a huge part of Cumming’s ‘Let’s just get it done’ campaign.

Lying Leaver Gammon are coming out all over the media now declaring ‘I voted Remain . . . blah blah blah . . . but time to move on . . . blah blah blah . . . Let’s just get it done’.

Everyone sees through this.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

[tweet]1185659559941230592[/tweet]

And people want another referendum which will only further entrench views, pour more poison into society, and amplify the divisions.

We need to learn the lesson of what happened with the last cursed referendum, and let time do the slow healing.

 

[Hampster Gull]

MEPs are elected. The House of Lords isn't. And our MPs are currently blocking Brexit.

Yep. The European Parliament and the Council of the EU are the two bodies that change and ultimately approve the proposals of the Commission. They are both elected bodies (the former as MEPs and the latter as national governments). We are represented. It’s Daily Mail stuff to peddle otherwise

 

[Motogull]

Like I said in a previous post, I'm not sure how it can be argued that he must pretend to want what he doesn't want, and he must shut up about what he does want. That to me seems too coercive.

I'm also not exactly sure whether he frustrated the intent of the act. The intent of the act was the sending of the letter. The making of the request. He hasn't frustrated the sending of the letter or the making of the request. He has perhaps frustrated the obtaining of the extension, but even then that's kind of hard to argue because it's the EU's decision. He can't really frustrate that. He has expressed his view, and if he isn't entitled to do that, then surely he is a PM, and this is a government, under duress.

He's a prime minister, not a John Sullivan fictional character. His conduct yesterday was pathetic.

 

[Jaxie]

I understand the argument around 'sovereignty' and 'one nation one law' but I don't think they hold up.

To me they sound like they come from a section of the country that has spent 40 years looking at front page headlines concerning 'straight bananas', 'ban selling eggs by the dozen' 'Up Yours Delores' - the list is endless (a rather depressing Google search) instead of embracing the club we asked to join, then almost instantly opted out of x, y, & z.

We've allowed our thinking to be formed by the tabloid press, which then becomes a news story, which then has to be balanced, who have fed us what we want Little Englanders, Fighting the Enemy, Saving Europe, WWII.

It's a shame the UK has never been allowed to appreciate the positives from the EU, although not surprising as it's all incredibly boring, dry and going on in the background ever so slowly making the UK a better place.

Put succinctly.

 

[ManOfSussex]

I do appreciate for a lot of Little England/Leave voters it's difficult, but it's Wales v France in 15 minutes. Who do they support? France, that's subjugated them by being in The EU, or Wales* that isn't England?

* - Only an 85000 majority in Wales for Leave, as a result of 650000 geriatric, English retirees living there, so don't come that **** with me.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

You make some really interesting points.

The language most of the media has always used around the EU is ‘them & us’. But we are the ‘us’. It is always framed as the ‘U.K.’ vs the ‘EU’ on issues but that is not the view anywhere else in the world. Most other European countries see us as (along with France & Germany) as a decision maker and leading country in the EU, part of the big three.

Then you have Russia, USA & China. In terms of trade and world politics, they need the EU split, Russia has spent millions of roubles on the leave campaign to achieve this aim. They know that once we are out, our voice and influence on world affairs will be profoundly curtailed with EU being severely weakened. Great for the Chinese take over of the World economy and for the Russian take over of World Politics whilst Trump’s USA invades our country economically and adds institutions to it’s ownership like the NHS and probably a great deal more as we go to them cup in had like we did after the Second World War.

Whilst all this chaos ensues, Somerset Capital Management will absolutely thrive as it continues to bet against British businesses making it’s share holders richer than their wildest dreams whilst the country‘a economy shatters.

I suspect Cummings came up with the ‘Let’s Just Get It Done’ campaign. I’m glad we still have Political hero’s like Letwin to scrutinise the self interested cowboys pulling the strings at number 10. The Maastricht treaty took 40 days to get through Parliament and Boris and his cronies are trying to force is wretched deal through in just a few days. Parliamentary scrutiny is now irrelevant to millions of leavers who ‘just want it done’.

Promise to rip up the likes of the Treaty of Versailles and so many people fall for it! The Brexit process has brought us a lying, conceited, self interested and dangerous leader in the mould of his handler, Trump. What has our Country come to?

The geo-politics above is all true of course.

But where we go from here is important.

We have to fulfill the result of the referendum, simply asking again rips society further apart and will only be the answer if another referendum delivers a large majority either way.

If remain marginally wins, then the anger from half of society will not just melt away. Further poison added, and anger ramped up. Many more Farage-s will start dominating our politics.

I tend to follow the lead of arch europhile Ken Clarke. We simply have to leave the EU. Do it in the most orderly way possible, and then fix the future.

I differ from Clarke in that I think that Norway and in particular Switzerland have a better relationship with the EU than if they were members and subject to the imposition of Qualified Majority Voting results.

But however we end up fixing the future, it isn't by stirring up more division and letting Farage out of his box - his recent relative silence has been a gift to us all.

 

[Hugo Rune]

Yep. The European Parliament and the Council of the EU are the two bodies that change and ultimately approve the proposals of the Commission. They are both elected bodies (the former as MEPs and the latter as national governments). We are represented. It’s Daily Mail stuff to peddle otherwise

I think a lot of people get confused about where the power lies as you allude to. The UK’s version of the European Parliament is the unelected House of Lords and just performs the function of asking the government to ‘think again’ now and then. The UK’s version of the EU council is also unelected and rubber stamps anything the government proposes, that’s the Queen (although she does have the power to sack Johnson if he declines to leave when he loses the up coming vote of no confidence).

I prefer the EU version of democracy myself.

 

[Swansman]

Not a fan of EU but I got to say I admire the determination and resilience of the pro-EU people. At this point I would have said "lets just fcking leave so we can talk about something else for a minute" if I were you.

 

[The Clamp]

Oh happy day.

Johnson is a spoilt brat and has shown most leavers up to be the same.


We are never leaving the EU.


Brilliant. Absolutely brilliant.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

" Increase in prices for many food items "
I keep hearing this and realise that it is uttered by people who don't have a clue about the food industry. PRICES CHANGE ALL THE TIME...irrespective of Brexit. There are so many global factors. For about nine months, Pork has been rising sharply in price because of Chinese demand. They have swine flu and continually buy up European stocks, forcing up prices here. Bacon moves up and down. Eggs always have seasonal increases. Salmon has rocketed in price ( supply shortage ) Crop failures have knock on effects and then throw in changes in packaging etc.
Most go out shopping, know roughly what they want to buy and pay at the end, without studying the bill too closely. They have no idea how much the trade absorbs price increases to remain competitve. Any increases in food prices ( and there will be many decreases as well ) as a result of Brexit, will be hardly noticed, so the next time you decide to make a simplistic statement like this, just try and think it through a bit more clearly.

I don't know a single family who doesn't study the bill closely. The value of the pound due to the politics of the last three years has pushed prices up.

 

[The Clamp]

[tweet]1185659559941230592[/tweet]

Quite strange language for “abuse”. I smell bullshit.

 

[franks brother]

Well done

Sent from my SM-A705FN using Tapatalk

 

[The Clamp]

That's fair, but he has been enjoying a good lead, and that's before a) he has earned massive props for doing the "undoable" by getting the WA reopened, getting rid of the backstop, and agreeing a deal with the EU with speed, grace and goodwill on both sides, b) He approached the Benn Bill in the right manner to obey the law and also retain his dignity, and c) his GE opponents have today shown themselves to be willing to extend this farce even more, which I think the electorate won't feel like thanking them for.

Dignity

He’s a guy with about as much dignity as you!!

Dignity! Hahahah. Lovely work. Dignity . Oh. Marvellous.

How can anyone with half a brain cell believe Brexit is a good idea!

 

[beorhthelm]

It’s a huge part of Cumming’s ‘Let’s just get it done’ campaign.

Lying Leaver Gammon are coming out all over the media now declaring ‘I voted Remain . . . blah blah blah . . . but time to move on . . . blah blah blah . . . Let’s just get it done’.

Everyone sees through this.

my other half has had this view a while, heard from a couple of people at work, i'm pretty sure they dont know Mr Cummings. Sky has launched a brexit free news channel and yesturday a Radio 4 programme had vox pops expressing the view. you might like to consider there is a general brexit fatigue setting in. remember most people weren't even interested in the subject before the vote.

 

[wellquickwoody]

...and you are a 'passionate Remainer'?
Really?

Perhaps more of I was. But if there were a second referendum (there shouldn’t be) I would vote remain again, I think...........