[Politics] Brexit

[WATFORD zero]

The geo-politics above is all true of course.

But where we go from here is important.

We have to fulfill the result of the referendum, simply asking again rips society further apart and will only be the answer if another referendum delivers a large majority either way.

If remain marginally wins, then the anger from half of society will not just melt away. Further poison added, and anger ramped up. Many more Farage-s will start dominating our politics.

I tend to follow the lead of arch europhile Ken Clarke. We simply have to leave the EU. Do it in the most orderly way possible, and then fix the future.

I differ from Clarke in that I think that Norway and in particular Switzerland have a better relationship with the EU than if they were members and subject to the imposition of Qualified Majority Voting results.

But however we end up fixing the future, it isn't by stirring up more division and letting Farage out of his box - his recent relative silence has been a gift to us all.

I know that you want to leave, your reasons why and your preferred leave option, which you have explained clearly. Your solution is implementable but will, I believe still have a significant economic impact for the geo-political reasons you agree with above. Not as disastrous as some other leave options, but still significant. Together with the further years of turmoil whilst this is all negotiated, I can't see that this will do anything but make Britain, and most certainly Britain's poorest, far worse off. Consequently, I believe we should remain.

As you rightly say, the country is currently divided and will be for years. Given this, surely we should make sure that whatever flavour of Leave is decided upon still commands the majority of the electorate (if, indeed, it ever did). If there is a significant majority one way or the other, it can only help by proving the size of the majority, and if there isn't there is still a mandate for whichever result. I don't believe that 'Leave' is a mandate for a hard Brexit, and I know you agree. So why should 'Leave' be a mandate for EFTA membership ?

Given the state of the country currently, there is nothing to lose and everything to gain by having a second referendum with detailed, implementable options.

And, your solution isn't any sort of compromise. It is the same solution you have wanted since the beginning and it's 'Leave'

It is good to discuss this with an informed Leave supporter who doesn't just accuse everyone of insulting them

 

[GrizzlingGammon]

[tweet]1185659559941230592[/tweet]

Yeah, Jo Cox was murdered.

A Labour Remain-supporting MP was murdered.

Even though John Mann is clearly a sensitive snowflake, I'm sure he'll get over a few nasty words.

All complete humbug according to our PM.

 

[lawros left foot]

I understand the argument around 'sovereignty' and 'one nation one law' but I don't think they hold up.

To me they sound like they come from a section of the country that has spent 40 years looking at front page headlines concerning 'straight bananas', 'ban selling eggs by the dozen' 'Up Yours Delores' - the list is endless (a rather depressing Google search) instead of embracing the club we asked to join, then almost instantly opted out of x, y, & z.

We've allowed our thinking to be formed by the tabloid press, which then becomes a news story, which then has to be balanced, who have fed us what we want Little Englanders, Fighting the Enemy, Saving Europe, WWII.

It's a shame the UK has never been allowed to appreciate the positives from the EU, although not surprising as it's all incredibly boring, dry and going on in the background ever so slowly making the UK a better place.

Excellent post, just about sums up my feelings on tho whole debacle.

 

[wellquickwoody]

Balls.

A few rampant Leavers will stamp their feet etc,. but the fact of the matter is that life will go on as it was, before all this crap started and most people will go back to not giving two hoots about being in the EU, just as most people didn't before the damn referendum happened.

Civil strife my arse.

Would you be so kind as to give us a clue as to your age, not an exact figure, maybe just the decade you were born in?

 

[Louis MacNeice]

Bringing Britain together; Johnson in flow: https://twitter.com/ByDonkeys/status/1184738823420502016?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1184738823420502016%7Ctwgr%5E363937393b636f6e74726f6c&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fs9e.github.io%2Fiframe%2F2%2Ftwitter.min.html%231184738823420502016

 

[wellquickwoody]

Yes, *some* people voted to Leave based on the Leave campaign - ie. With a good deal..

The ballot paper had two choices - Leave or Remain - that is all. Stop lieing.

 

[clapham_gull]

Bringing Britain together; Johnson in flow: https://twitter.com/ByDonkeys/status/1184738823420502016?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1184738823420502016%7Ctwgr%5E363937393b636f6e74726f6c&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fs9e.github.io%2Fiframe%2F2%2Ftwitter.min.html%231184738823420502016

Add it to the tracker.

[tweet]1184738823420502016[/tweet]

 

[Seaber]

Parliament have eight more sitting days until the deadline, ten days after today in total.

I don't think there will be another meaningful vote on Monday, I think that would come under voting on the same thing twice in one session, but we'll find out tomorrow. It's also unclear if the Government will continue the Queen's Speech debate tomorrow, which was apparently very important to them.

I think the votes are currently there for the Deal and also for a VONC, but once the deal is scrutinised I think support may fall away. I don't think there are the numbers for a Confirmatory referendum amendment yet, but the DUP would rather that than the border in the Irish Sea.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Add it to the tracker.

[tweet]1184738823420502016[/tweet]

I'm guessing that is an example of the 'dignity' that so impressed [MENTION=18559]dingodan[/MENTION]

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

The ballot paper had two choices - Leave or Remain - that is all. Stop lieing.

You can't just take the ballot paper in isolation. There was official campaigns with supporting documentation which clearly and unambiguously stated that any exit would be orderly and with a deal. This cannot be waved away and ignored.

 

[wellquickwoody]

It’s a huge part of Cumming’s ‘Let’s just get it done’ campaign.

Lying Leaver Gammon are coming out all over the media now declaring ‘I voted Remain . . . blah blah blah . . . but time to move on . . . blah blah blah . . . Let’s just get it done’.

Everyone sees through this.

If you are calling me a liar Sir, then carry on deluding yourself, ‘cos I really couldn’t give one.

 

[wellquickwoody]

You can't just take the ballot paper in isolation. There was official campaigns with supporting documentation which clearly and unambiguously stated that any exit would be orderly and with a deal. This cannot be waved away and ignored.

And election manifestos are written in stone are they? No.

You read between the lines, you try to make an informed decision, you take responsibility for your vote.

Unless you are a modern liberal left wing snowflake who will whinge, whine and wriggle to get their own way no matter what the law, protocol and common sense would normally dictate.

 

[birthofanorange]

The ballot paper had two choices - Leave or Remain - that is all. Stop lieing.

There is no lie in what I said, and stop pretending to be a Remainer.

 

[The Clamp]

Would you be so kind as to give us a clue as to your age, not an exact figure, maybe just the decade you were born in?

And maybe his skin colour so you can really get a handle on whether you value his opinion or not?

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

And election manifestos are written in stone are they? No.

You read between the lines, you try to make an informed decision, you take responsibility for your vote.

Unless you are a modern liberal left wing snowflake who will whinge, whine and wriggle to get their own way no matter what the law, protocol and common sense would normally dictate.

I don't buy into the idea that nothing outside of the ballot paper has any meaning.

 

[vegster]

" Increase in prices for many food items "
I keep hearing this and realise that it is uttered by people who don't have a clue about the food industry. PRICES CHANGE ALL THE TIME...irrespective of Brexit. There are so many global factors. For about nine months, Pork has been rising sharply in price because of Chinese demand. They have swine flu and continually buy up European stocks, forcing up prices here. Bacon moves up and down. Eggs always have seasonal increases. Salmon has rocketed in price ( supply shortage ) Crop failures have knock on effects and then throw in changes in packaging etc.
Most go out shopping, know roughly what they want to buy and pay at the end, without studying the bill too closely. They have no idea how much the trade absorbs price increases to remain competitve. Any increases in food prices ( and there will be many decreases as well ) as a result of Brexit, will be hardly noticed, so the next time you decide to make a simplistic statement like this, just try and think it through a bit more clearly.

I think things have been thought out very clearly, we are losing the ability to seamlessly move foodstuffs across the Channel in both directions in good time. I'm sure you are aware of all the requirements on the UK to meet numerous licences, standards and guarantees and certification for crops and meat exports , even to the fact that we need to use a EU standard pallet in order to minimise risk of spreading pests. All this happens seamlessly at the moment allowing free trade to flourish rather then be held back.

 

[birthofanorange]

I don't buy into the idea that nothing outside of the ballot paper has any meaning.

He is being very disingenuous to the people who voted (for both sides) in stating that they took no account of the respective campaigns, when making their decision.

 

[Louis MacNeice]

Unless you are a modern liberal left wing snowflake who will whinge, whine and wriggle to get their own way no matter what the law, protocol and common sense would normally dictate.

That is a perfect description of Johnson letters to the EU...though I never had him down as a liberal left wing snow flake; just a spoilt posh boy with a misplaced but massive sense of entitlement and his own self worth.

 

[zefarelly]

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...-johnson-breakup-uk-eu?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

 

[Hugo Rune]

my other half has had this view a while, heard from a couple of people at work, i'm pretty sure they dont know Mr Cummings. Sky has launched a brexit free news channel and yesturday a Radio 4 programme had vox pops expressing the view. you might like to consider there is a general brexit fatigue setting in. remember most people weren't even interested in the subject before the vote.

There is definitely Brexit fatigue, I just think that Cummings (who masterminds the Government strategy on this) is having a lot more success of leading a campaign to turn this fatigue into leave sentiments.

Brexit will dominate the news for many years to come what ever happens with Boris’ deal. Fatigue is here to stay sadly.